Lee sin' low cds makes him the most error-forgivable champion in league

Glauciane·Oct 14, 2019·13 votes·6,432 views

+ + Talent = 40% cdr with only 2 items.

Original Q cd = 7s. Which results in 4.2s Cd. STARTING IN THE FIRST CAST! The whole time between lee lands the first q and does not use the second q COUNT AS COOLDOWN TIME! That is whole 3 seconds. Real q cd ends up being 1.2s!!!!

Original W cd = 12s. Which results in 7.2 Cd S STARTING IN THE FIRST CAST! . But the shield lasts 4s. Which means the Real W cd is only 3.2 s!!!

Original E cd = 10s. Which results in 6cd STARTING IN THE FIRST CAST! Another skill that lee can hold on the second cast while the cd is running down.

Lee's cds SHOULD START ON THE FIRST CAST! It's ridiculous that an asassin may miss gap closing dash every 1.2s or use a shield dash every 3.2s.

32 Comments

ZackTheWaffleManOct 14, 20199 votes

on the other hand, it's incredibly easy to screw up mechanically on lee

AR URFOct 15, 20192 votes

{quoted}

on the other hand, it's incredibly easy to screw up mechanically on lee

Indeed. I mained lee jungle back in season 7 and well I'm no stranger to kicking the assassin/tank into my adc.

WTBeGirl100EUhrOct 15, 20197 votes

Like most energy gated champions, most of his CDs are short because he's energy gated. Unlike most energy champions, he doesn't have 1 "big" cooldown like Zed W, Akali shroud, to gate him beyond energy.

Ahri BakaOct 15, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Like most energy gated champions, most of his CDs are short because he's energy gated. Unlike most energy champions, he doesn't have 1 "big" cooldown like Zed W, Akali shroud, to gate him beyond energy.

Shen ?

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 15, 20191 votes

who?

WTBeGirl100EUhrOct 15, 20191 votes

Shen has lower energy generation and higher costs instead.

CaptainAntiHerozOct 14, 20193 votes

Pyke Katarina Ezreal Fizz

ŚhunpoOct 15, 20191 votes

Kat?

xelakerOct 15, 20191 votes

her cd are pretty low with just cdr, let alone resets

ŚhunpoOct 15, 20191 votes

11 seconds on Q, 15 on W, 14 on E, 90 on ult <-- Rank 1 7 on Q, 11 on W, 8 on E, 45 on ult <--- Rank 5

In what world are her CDs low (unless she gets a reset)?

I'm not trying to say that there aren't workarounds and that she's weak (she's not weak at all), I'm purely trying to correct misinformation here.

xelakerOct 15, 20191 votes

Now drop 40% off of each of those, ignoring any runes lowering her ult and she has her combo up every few seconds with an ult on 27 seconds. This isn't including any resets which is dropping everything to 0 (with cdr or not) and her ult to 12 seconds.

ŚhunpoOct 15, 20192 votes

Kat's standard build only has 10% CDR (from Zhoyna's), so I'd hardly say it's fair to say "now drop 40% off of each of those..."

Nanuk PihoqahiakOct 15, 20193 votes

Where is Kat getting 40 percent CDR from? Like I hate playing against good Katarina players, but let's not hyperbolize this hard.

ŚhunpoOct 15, 20191 votes

I guess we're running an edgy top-of-the-line AD/Hybrid Kat build with Triforce and Shojin. That said, please do try that build, it's good fun, especially with Lethal Tempo. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

CaptainAntiHerozOct 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Kat?

Don't act like a passive that resets shunpo where you can run 0-10% cdr and still succeed by resetting over and over isn't a forgivable champion especially since you can shunpo on ally minions and champions immediately after getting a dagger or a kill

ﬂooOct 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand why people complain about ez as being mobile.. if his E is on cd he's as helpless as a fish on land. And it's not like it's on such low cd either. 25s on r1, 13 on r5, 7.8s with 40% cdr.

nm1010Oct 15, 20191 votes

Which is lowered by 1.5 seconds for each q he lands, so for someone trying to dive him it is realistically ~5 seconds. Not to mention the slow/speed up from iceborn gauntlet/trinity/bork making him hard to gap close on in the first place and he has flash on top of his e. Anyway, do you still not understand how a champion with a 5 second flash cd is seen as hyper mobile?

ﬂooOct 15, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Which is lowered by 1.5 seconds for each q he lands, so for someone trying to dive him it is realistically ~5 seconds. Not to mention the slow/speed up from iceborn gauntlet/trinity/bork making him hard to gap close on in the first place and he has flash on top of his e. Anyway, do you still not understand how a champion with a 5 second flash cd is seen as hyper mobile?

His Q is fairly narrow and easy to predict if you get a feeling for its cd. He needs to hit it as well to get the cd refund, ibg or trinity proc. Botrk isn't one of is early items so he either is ahead at this point, it's late game or he doesn't get to it anyway. With how much mobility is being stuffed into the game, he is mobile for an adc, but by far not hyper mobile..

nm1010Oct 15, 20191 votes

If you are trying to engage on him, it is pretty predictable where you are going to be. He does not need to hit it for a trinity/iceborn proc as he can auto or e to land the proc. In the case of iceborn this basically guarantees the next q hit as well. It is also worth mentioning that his e is also completely unconditional, meaning that he doesn't need any requirements to use it like Camille e. Feel free to list 10 champions that have more unrestricted mobility on a basic ability and I will admit he isn't hyper mobile. The only ones I can come up with that are even close are

Ahri - attached to an ult Akali - also attached to an ult Corki - longer cooldown and isn't a blink, so it is interruptible. Fiora - Requires hitting the q and is much shorter dash Fizz - Only has e unless he can q something in range, longer cd Gragas - longer cd and slow. Also stops if it hits an enemy. Irelia - Has to land abilities/kill a unit to reset, but definitely hyper mobile. Jax - Needs a target in range, is also a dash. Kalista - Needs targets to attack. Kassadin - Extreme mana cost and tied to ult. Katarina - Gated on resets. Khazix - Gated on resets. Leblanc - Is a dash, but can double up on them with r. LeeSin - Requires a skill shot/ward. Lucian - Requires a target to auto for reset. Also a short range dash. Nidalee - Dash and has to be in cougar form. Qiyana - Has a short dash that she has to use for choosing an element most of the time. E requires a target, both dashes. Rakan - 2/3 dashes limited by having an ally to target. Renekton - long cd dash, requires a target to be hit to get the double dash. Rengar - Needs bushes and a target. Riven - spammable 4 dashes. Talon - Q is targeted and fairly short range. E requires walls and has a long cd. Tristana - Gated on resets. Tryndamere - Gated on crits. Vayne - Gated on R to be really obnoxious. Yasuo - Gated on targets to dash to. Zed - Long cd and high energy cost unless you are consistently hitting multiple ability casts.

Of all of those, I would only really consider a few "better" all purpose mobility abilities than Ezreal's e. In no particular order

Irelia Kassadin Leblanc Nidalee Riven Tryndamere Yasuo Zed

All of these are assassins and skirmishers, aka their entire class is based upon having mobility.

ﬂooOct 15, 20191 votes

If he auto's, he is threat range for you to catch up. His E doesn't proc trinity/ibg and even if it would, that would be his death sentence, since he's so close that his E targetted you.

I don't know why it has to be 10 champs with better mobility to make him not hyper mobile. I guess the term is open for interpretation, but hyper mobility means something like excessive compared to a certain standard.

No doubt Ez' E is a good mobility spell, probably the best of any adc or one of the best in game, but that doesn't make him hyper mobile. Considering Shaco's Q is a better version of it and you didn't even list him, I assume you wouldn't count him hyper mobile and neither would I.

All the champs you suggested, with the exception of Tryn can use their mobility multiple times in a short amount of itme and aren't gated by 1 single instance. For that reason I would also consider Talon of all to by quite hyper mobile. It's not that he has a better mobility spell than Ez, but an excessive amount of mobility. Q E (honestly, that wall gating is not really as big of a deal) and R inv + ms, mostly his E. Also idk why you wouldn't mention Kayn, whom I'd consider to be the most mobile champ in the game. Who needs a blink if you can literally walk through walls for a decent amount of time.

Going back to Ezreal, I wouldn't consider him hyper mobile, since he doesn't have an excessive amount of mobility ready to save him all the time. Yes his E can make it hard to catch him, but he's still very vulnerable if you manage to get into threat range. Imo, there isn't an easier botlane to fight than Ezreal atm. Of adcs that is.

CaptainAntiHerozOct 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand why people complain about ez as being mobile.. if his E is on cd he's as helpless as a fish on land. And it's not like it's on such low cd either. 25s on r1, 13 on r5, 7.8s with 40% cdr.

because Ez is an ADC with a flash built into his kit

ﬂooOct 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

because Ez is an ADC with a flash built into his kit

And? Once he uses it he cannot participate in a fight except for long range Qs. Once he uses it offensively and you can turn he's dead.

it's on a decent cd even if 45% cdr is meta. Early on he's super vulnerable if you can bait it, which isn't hard.

CaptainAntiHerozOct 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And? Once he uses it he cannot participate in a fight except for long range Qs. Once he uses it offensively and you can turn he's dead.

it's on a decent cd even if 45% cdr is meta. Early on he's super vulnerable if you can bait it, which isn't hard.

He is too forgiving to mistakes thanks to his kit thats the point

ﬂooOct 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

He is too forgiving to mistakes thanks to his kit thats the point

If your kit and playstyle consist of skillshots, you need something to reposition yourself. It's not like he freely spams it all the time either, especially because he's dead once he gets caught.

CaptainAntiHerozOct 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If your kit and playstyle consist of skillshots, you need something to reposition yourself. It's not like he freely spams it all the time either, especially because he's dead once he gets caught.

Nope because he still has summoner 4 Also he gets to take klepto and even if he only hits half his skillshots all game he gets rewarded for it so hes still way too forgiving because of how he interacts with things in the game

ﬂooOct 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Nope because he still has Also he gets to take klepto and even if he only hits half his skillshots all game he gets rewarded for it so hes still way too forgiving because of how he interacts with things in the game

Lmao what Flash is an assistance tool that literally anyone can have. It's gated on a 5 min cd and is not what anyone is balanced around.

He takes klepto because his Q can abuse it, it's also not what he is balanced around. The rune is either abused or completely useless. Also if you have trouble against an ez who only hits half his skillshots and still comes out victorious, that is certainly your fault. And same goes for if you can't play around him being gated by his Q. His auto attacks are garbage until he has 3+ items, which is why he's forced to play with Q most of the game. There is pretty much no other adc in the game I like to face more than Ez, cuz laning against him is the easiest thing ever. Even if you can't kill him, as long as you can push the lane in he's occupied with trash clear and you can roam freely.

CaptainAntiHerozOct 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Lmao what Flash is an assistance tool that literally anyone can have. It's gated on a 5 min cd and is not what anyone is balanced around.

He takes klepto because his Q can abuse it, it's also not what he is balanced around. The rune is either abused or completely useless. Also if you have trouble against an ez who only hits half his skillshots and still comes out victorious, that is certainly your fault. And same goes for if you can't play around him being gated by his Q. His auto attacks are garbage until he has 3+ items, which is why he's forced to play with Q most of the game. There is pretty much no other adc in the game I like to face more than Ez, cuz laning against him is the easiest thing ever. Even if you can't kill him, as long as you can push the lane in he's occupied with trash clear and you can roam freely.

Doesn't change that Ezreal is insanely safe even if you play poorly

ﬂooOct 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't change that Ezreal is insanely safe even if you play poorly

Yea that tends to happen when you're a skillshot reliant caster. That still makes him shit in lane as long as you have pushing power, did you even read?

CaptainAntiHerozOct 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yea that tends to happen when you're a skillshot reliant caster. That still makes him shit in lane as long as you have pushing power, did you even read?

OP's title yo I literally stated the champs that are the most safe even if you do poorly, or are you not talking about the original thing with the post?

Sightless66Oct 15, 20192 votes

It's ridiculous that an asassin may miss gap closing dash every 1.2s or use a shield dash every 3.2s.

That isn't accurate though. You're taking the minimum time between the second cast of the ability and a new cast, and representing that as the cooldown of the whole skill. That is just wrong.

Lee can't shield dash every 3.2 seconds. He can only use that dash once every 7.2 seconds, because that is how often his first W ( the one that dashes) is actually up. He can wait to use the second w, but that won't lower the dash-to-dash time even slightly.

SiG DxDOct 15, 20191 votes

most shields in game last 1.5 s yet lee sin has shield for 4 s

ok ...i guess riot... and for him and ally

Pandemic PunchOct 15, 20191 votes

Too forgiving? He has no room for errors or time to not position himself where he won't make errors. If he is not in the enemy's face at all stages of the game, his existence is pointless. If you make 1 or 2 errors WHILE in the face of his enemies, he can cost his team to lose from a single error especially late game. This is especially true since he doesn't scale.

Champions that can instantly delete enemies with little mechanical effort ( Shaco Khazix ) have more room for error. There won't be a stage of the game where you won't be able to instantly kill an enemy unless your team is VERY behind. Lee Sin late game can land a full combo on a squishy target and still not kill them. Other champions that have more room for error are champions that scale ( MasterYi Jax ). There is a reason Lee Sin always has a garbage win rate. Figured you would know more than anyone else though since your rank is so low that you are concealing it from the public by posting on a fake account. Lee Sin is trash in lower elos. He isn't even a good champion statistically until Challenger.