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Why do new supports feel like junglers? Can we have a new DECENT Healer / Shielder support?

Glauciane··9 votes·6,526 views

Supports were really unpopular some seasons ago, older players know it. We always wanted the role to be more relevant. I feel that Riot tried to make it by releasing "independent" supports. Independent in a sense that their kits no longer have strong defensive spells, but strong ccs and mobility skills that allows them to** force pick-offs /roamings without being punished if everything goes wrong. **

**1- Pyke. **He can protect his carry with his dash and knock up, but they are very situational to be used that way. Those skills are more effective when HE's the one engaging . He can pretty much win the game even if his ADC's bad, since his kit is perfect for roaming and pick-offing. His ult rewards pyke to die AFTER his carry, not before, as a support should. In tf's, It only works if someone take the risk of landing enough damage so he can reset. AND even if his roaming doesn't end up well, he can just use his invisibility/dash to run and grey-shield to back fullife to lane.

2- Rakan, whose shields and healings are a joke, is also almost a jungler in the bot. His w can be used to protect his ad by knocking the enemy carry (which is pretty useful against jhin, for example), but we all know his biggest utility comes when being used as an multi-target engager (With less damage than pyke, thanks god). His E, instead of being used to protect the carry, ends up with the utility of running away to avoid being punished for bad engages.

3- Tahm Kench can defend his carry, I admit it, his w is strong and useful. But as it has a high cooldown, his kit ends up being about punishing who dares to come close enough to the carry. He can even 1x1 most of champs in the game, even without being ahead/farming. He also has the grey-shield that doesn't make him get punished for bad plays, and his ult is perfect for roaming.

**4- Bard **has healing. Which is in fact useful during the lane-phase. But as game advances, his w's charging time becomes an issue, and it ends being more used as a speed buff. His kit, as pyke's and rakan's, is pretty much focused on opening a window to roaming ( I won't talk much about him, his skills talk by themselves).

Braum is the last full-peel released support champ. His q is strong to engage in lanephase, but since it's slow and, as his ult, has a small range, he ends up using it as a defensive skill for most of the game. **He was released em 2014, 5 years ago. **

That being said, i wanna make clear that , besides pyke, (which i think shouldn't have everything on his kit), i really love and often use all the champions here quoted. Supports are more impacting in the game now.

**BUT, ON THE OTHER HAND, I WOULD LIKE A NEW HIGH RISK HEALER/SHIELDER IN THE GAME. ** High risk in a sense that, if it's carry doesn't play well, he would probably lose the game. But due to the strong defensive kit, with a good carry, he would be highly rewarded for protecting it. Botlane is dominated by lucians/jhins/strong early champions. We don't see hypercarries (Vayne/kog) any longer. That kind of champion would be perfect to duo them, protecting them while they don't hit their power spike, **since nowadays everything have explosive dmg and tons of cc. **

Nami, who has been released in 2012, 7 years ago have somewhat the kind of playstyle i would love to see in a new champion. Soraka / Janna also do what i'm talking about.

31 Comments

The thigh guy10 votes

Nope. Can’t have protective champions anymore. Only engage, damage and burst is allowed. This is the will with of the all mighty rito!

Butterwood5 votes

Or put some respek on this guy's name Ivern

Glauciane3 votes

{quoted}

Or put some respek on this guy's name Ivern

If he could transfere the red/blue buff and they changed his aa to ranged, just buffing it when he's on bushs, i think he could be used as a sup

Butterwood1 votes

He's a fine jungler when people on his team understand his kit. Double buffs all game and top notch support ganks with CC and engage are OP.

Glauciane1 votes

{quoted}

He's a fine jungler when people on his team understand his kit. Double buffs all game and top notch support ganks with CC and engage are OP.

Oh, i thought you were telling me to use him as a sup. I like him as a jungler, but as i sup his passive seems not so good, since one of the buffs would be very far from him, and his ad could make more with them if he could catch it

Butterwood1 votes

I only use him as supp in an off meta lane. He's a great support when paired with a heavy engage like Rengar or Ornn.

Death by Glamour4 votes

BUT, ON THE OTHER HAND, I WOULD LIKE A NEW HIGH RISK HEALER/SHIELDER IN THE GAME

old soraka then, W had quite a hefty CD and required you to get in close to Q as to reduce its CD if I remember correctly

maybe Taric ?

Glauciane2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ePFsX9Ax,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-23T15:37:39.919+0000)

old soraka then, W had quite a hefty CD and required you to get in close to Q as to reduce its CD if I remember correctly

maybe Taric ?

They nerfed his healing so hard T.T And I personally don't like his ult. It has to be slow, otherwhise it would be broken since it affects the whole team. I would like him most without the cd reseting passive and with way more heal.

Hellmaximus11 votes

Honestly even after the heal nerfs, he was strong into they also nerfed his ultimate cd by like 80 seconds.

Talk about gutting a champion because of the LCS.

The could've given him his heals back to make him viable again atleast.

Sire Hippington3 votes

I disagree on tham and Rakan.

Sure, rakans trademark is the engage with ult, but his shield is actually rather powerfull and his mobillity allows him to quickly shift between peeling and engageing, and the heals is not that bad either.

And tham is basically the definition of peel, punishing people that want to pass you to get to you're carry? That IS peeling at it's finest, and his W is hands down the by far best safety net for any carry if the tham is good. It's a cleanse+stasis and tham can carry them to a save spot duering that... One can complain about tham in many ways, but not that he isn't supportive or defensive enough, imo he's even more defensive than braum.

usul12022 votes

What would they add? You've got Janna as your shield focused disengager, sona for aoe healing, nami for early healing and cc, raka for focused healing, and lulu for shieldbot buffer. The only archetypes they don't have that I'm decently familiar with are a heal over time focused healer (which I don't think would fare well in league) and someone who heals by doing damage, which would instantly cause boards to flip shit.

Raven Redeemed1 votes

Agreed, the are already quite a few shielders/healers. There should always be a reason you pick one champ over another otherwise everyone would pick the one with the best stats at the time. I think it's cool that Riot is providing new ways to support since the previous support pool was over saturated with shields and heals. That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing more if the champ brought something new to the game instead of being Janna 2.0.

Alzon1 votes

There should always be a reason you pick one champ over another otherwise everyone would pick the one with the best stats at the time.

Riot doesn’t care about that, or we wouldn’t have gotten Camille. item 3070 Vi

Raven Redeemed1 votes

Lol. Yeah, Vi's getting pretty outdated and Cam is a lil too universally effective imo. No argument here.

usul12021 votes

Absolutely. As a lifelong healer in games (currently a resto druid in wow) I would love a more diverse enchanter pool. But every time this thread comes up I ask myself how I would create a non-cancer enchanter who is significantly different from the current pool and fail hard. But, I guess there's a reason I'm not in the game dev industry haha.

Karfuss1 votes

{quoted}

Absolutely. As a lifelong healer in games (currently a resto druid in wow) I would love a more diverse enchanter pool.

Speaking of Druids and WoW, I really like how they did Malfurion in Heroes of the Storm. On the surface he isn't that strong, but he becomes a force to be reckoned with IF the player can micromanage his healing over time effects on multiple heroes at the same time (I.E. Just like a Resto Raid healers).

Champions that have internal micromanagement that doesn't consist of "Push this button, do damage" are extremely rare. Rumble and Gnar are probably the closest to that. While League focuses everything on macro, champion design tends to lack this extra level of complexity.

It'd be pretty neat to have a support like that, where they have to worry less about whacking an enemy with X skill and more about the management of their own resources/abilities.

usul12021 votes

Ah, I never got into hots, so no clue unfortunately.

Resource management is quite difficult to do utility-wise. I definitely think rumble is a good example of success, whereas I'd count raka as a bad one. Having the health cost on her w doesn't feel rewarding to manage, it's overtly limiting when it shouldn't be and ignoreable when it's needed imo. Hopefully they'll find a balance on the next chanter.

Eons31 votes

Mordekaiser Feels like you much like all adcs, have missed the point of my W...... You arent supposed to dash OUTA melee range of the enemy adc. GOD dang it STOP RUNNING FROM THEM. /facepalm Ok lucian ok we get it im useless sure. K. ENEMY has been slain Ha now we have an actual adc Caitlyn Muaahahahah.

Syrile1 votes

Oh, they show a Spellbook for the new "support" I am sure it will be more like a Ahri than a support. They will throw in some CC, by virtue of some way to make it ridiculously broken but more so it will probably dash about 9 times, 100-0 you in 0.34 seconds, and have about 6-7 abilities per ability.

Hellmaximus12 votes

inb4 is actually ryze rework and their turning him into a support caster mage WITH MANA DAMAGE [sg-miss-fortune]

Syrile1 votes

{quoted}

inb4 is actually ryze rework and their turning him into a support caster mage WITH MANA DAMAGE [sg-miss-fortune]

Buwahahaha This is probably true. I have been waiting on that next rework. I love Ryze though.. :/

ScruBard1 votes

Why waste a new support champ release only to make them a variation of a Janna or Soraka. Those champs are designed to do only 2 things: spam heals and sometimes peel. There is only so much you can give those types of champs and if you give them more cuz of originality, that would be super OP. And you know most champs these days have a unique design and gameplay cuz Riot focuses on that first rather than let's make another champ that has a point and click heal for their allies...

Eons31 votes

Soraka can duel a jax top for most of the game, she does alot more than heal and "sometimes peel" her q damage is 230 plus 35% ap ona 5 second cd, with a ludens echo and liandrys torment, she can do like 600 damaeg per q every 3 seconds or less, while slowing you. Its kinda funny tbh. I dont fear soraka for her W i fear her for her E tbh.

Eons31 votes

btw her e does 460 plus 80% ap if it hits both parts XD

hhaavviikk1 votes

ah yes, pyke the ''support'', more like the assassin that doesn't need to build items to assassinate so he can go bot with the ADC.

Khabith1 votes

If they ever hype up me up for a new champion, and it's a second nami im actually going to kill myself.

The Trent1 votes

Supports at high tier should feel like junglers in the sense that they have to roam, heals/ shields or not. If you're not roaming and the enemy support is, regardless of champ, you're playing at a huge skill gap disadvantage. If you don't like that aspect of support, and how they're making supports that are really good at it, you might want to find a different role to play. It's been like this forever. You obviously weren't here during the supports being nothing but ward hogs meta. You would've really hated how much you had to roam, and there weren't really any good Rakan type supports back then, so you'd just be roaming as like nami, extremely under leveled, 24/7. Supports has always been like this on every champ idk where you've been. The new support looks like a healer based on the colors used in the splash. You should still roam with it regardless. I don't know why you find shield botting fun. Super glad this isn't a kog meta where I have to baby sit 24/7 or I'm flamed because he can't be left alone for 0.5 seconds without dying. You don't like that some supports have heals/ shields for peel, that's fine, but you need to be roaming. You have plenty of options: Janna, Nami, Soraka, Lulu, Taric, etc. The only difference is one peels in cc time so adcs can kill faster and one peels in heals/ shields so adcs can live longer. cc can also save ur adc sometimes so there's that too.

TeCoolMage1 votes

First they have to fix their itemisation and playstyle

Purely defensive buff and healing casters like Soraka, Janna and Sona after they nerfed her base stats (making her spawn W) should not be possible. All of them have to follow Nami or Rakan, who have healing/shielding/buffs but also very strong, risky enemy interaction (for them it’s their CC). Janna has her tornado but her easy to hit, no need to aim ult kind of acts as a buffer for when she fails so it lowers her risk, but it’s much better than when she used to have a short shield cool down and no auto attack passive

The reason for this is because it’s bad design to have champions hide behind other champions without having some skill check like skillshots. It’s like taking the advantages of Xerath and Yi, less space to retaliate, no need to aim, and none of the disadvantages

Itemisation is pretty okay because ardent rewards you for autoing as well and athene’s encourages you to deal damage, but more AP carry items with %heal and shield would be nice

Eons31 votes

Problem isnt their healing, its the fact they have damage. Nami has similar damage to xerath(without his R) and so does soraka, and sona and so on. The healing while being Strong and annoying isnt bad if its just 1 champ being equal to 2 or 3 champs tankiness wise, its the fact that its 2 champs that are both equally as bursty as your champs(or at least 80% of the way there) WHILE ALSO being tankier than you, and having cc.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

Vayne has very high pickrate since the last buff, you are joking, if you are saying that she doesn't see play. She sees play not only bot, but also top and I'm not talking about some small sample size, check any decent datamining site!

About healer supports - they are one of the most hated archetypes in the game.The enemy team has to kill the damn healer or lose. It is literally game warping in a bad way and promotes damage creep, so you have to basically to 1 combo the healer or the "carry" to have any chance. I personally don't want to see another Soraka in any of my games (even on my team),

iron4playa1 votes

"1- Pyke. He can protect his carry with his dash and knock up" knock up? xd

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