"AP isn't viable unless I can zero counterplay one shot squishy champions..."

HateDaddy··12 votes·680 views

...while also bringing some of the best utility in the game, not to mention the safest and most consistent ranged wave clear in the game."

Let's be real, this is exactly what mage players want. Several AP champions, both assassins and mages are consistently played competitively, such as Orianna Syndra Taliyah Cassiopeia Fizz Leblanc Kassadin Rumble . This represents roughly the same number of ADCs, tanks and bruisers that get played, many of whom can also go mid/top. Mages aren't being ousted, they're actually balanced for once.

Stop the damn tears. AP is fine. Yes item 3504 is busted right now. It's arguable that many support items could be a bit too good but mages still get played regardless because unlike ADCs and even bruisers, they serve several purposes from ranged safe weaveclear to utility. Just because you can't one-shot everything doesn't mean they suck, you're just a biased whiner who wants the game to come easier to you because you suck.

26 Comments

WalkingInACircle10 votes

Zero counterplay for adcs who frontline and can't dodge maybe. But no really, APCs have barely more burst than front loaded adcs right now and none of the dps while relying on missable abilities. We may have CC, but we don't have the sustain or mobility that is common in adcs. And that's not accounting for what supports bring adcs.

HateDaddy5 votes

{quoted}

Zero counterplay for adcs who frontline and can't dodge maybe. But no really, APCs have barely more burst than front loaded adcs right now and none of the dps while relying on missable abilities. We may have CC, but we don't have the sustain or mobility that is common in adcs. And that's not accounting for what supports bring adcs.

Yes and ADCs don't match the sheer amount of utility that mages crank out. Sorry, you can't do it all? And let's not go crazy here, ADCs are NOT bursting as hard as mages right now or ever - that's a totally absurd statement to make. Mages with void can straight up chunk tanks.

Infernape3 votes

To be fair, ADCs right now with Shiv and IE chunk everyone that isn't a 3k health tank with Randuins (I think that's the point the person you're replying to is trying to make) However, this doesn't mean mages can't do the same with their spells.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, ADCs right now with Shiv and IE chunk everyone that isn't a 3k health tank with Randuins (I think that's the point the person you're replying to is trying to make) However, this doesn't mean mages can't do the same with their spells.

This is only in the case of a few ADCs and I absolutely agree this combo is disgusting and needs to be toned down. However, that's not the same thing as "equaling" mage burst since it's still random until 80-100% crit chance and typically only gets used on tanks. Mages easily outrange most ADCs auto attack range.

SwiftKitten887 votes

lol god forbid the lane that is supposed to be ap mage vs ap mage has ap mages in it...

WTf is wrong with you?

of COURSE mages are going to be picked in LCS, there are THREE ad mid laners Zed Talon Yasuo

if one of those isnt going to be picked mid lane then ITS GOING TO BE AN AP MAGE!!!

the reason why THOSE makes are picked it because THEY are hurt LEAST by the utterly horrid ap itemization.

that's like saying

"marksman totally dominate the ADC role"

NEWS FLASH!!! THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO!!!

Marshbouy1 votes

there are THREE ad mid laners

insert rant about adcs being played mid

Buzzkillington03 votes

It's funny because those are not the reasons why pros dont pick ad mids. They don't pick them because they are melee, snowball reliant, ARE BULLIED HEAVILY BY MAGES (especially zed and talon), have less waveclear and utility. Which leads them to pick mages for nearly the same burst from long range, utility and waveclear, which is one of the most important things to have in midlane.

Big Lincoln4 votes

I don't see anything saying mid lane belongs to you

SwiftKitten882 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bEnkAl5T,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2017-08-18T02:53:53.602+0000)

I don't see anything saying mid lane belongs to you

how mnay mages go top lane? Kennen Rumble Swain i might be missing 1 or two more?

how mage mages jungle? Fiddlesticks?? but some use ap item likeNidalee Diana

how mnay mages ADC? Ziggs how maNy mages support... ok a few... Janna Morgana Lulu Sona Soraka ,, but thier support mages.. and itemize as such... sure you can get a Lux in there if they build support and not go full damage.. but yeah..

how many mages go mid lane... OVER THIRTY

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bEnkAl5T,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2017-08-18T02:53:53.602+0000)

I don't see anything saying mid lane belongs to you

idk.. just call it a hunch...

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

how mnay mages go top lane? Kennen Rumble Swain i might be missing 1 or two more?

how mage mages jungle? none but some use ap item like Fiddlesticks Nidalee Diana

how mnay mages ADC? Ziggs how mnay mages support... ok a few... Janna Morgana Lulu Sona Soraka ,, but thier support mages.. and itemlise as such... sure you can get a Lux in there if they build support and not go full damage.. but yeah..

how mnay mages go mid lane... OVER THIRTY

idk.. just call it a hunch...

You're forgetting the part where Ryze, Vlad, Cass, Lissandra, Malz and Kayle have forced melee a out of top lane for months on end. Even still, your point is absolutely ridiculous and ludicrous.

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

lol god forbid the lane that is supposed to be ap mage vs ap mage has ap mages in it...

WTf is wrong with you?

of COURSE mages are going to be picked in LCS, there are THREE ad mid laners Zed Talon Yasuo

if one of those isnt going to be picked mid lane then ITS GOING TO BE AN AP MAGE!!!

the reason why THOSE makes are picked it because THEY are hurt LEAST by the utterly horrid ap itemization.

that's like saying

"marksman totally dominate the ADC role"

NEWS FLASH!!! THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO!!!

You're wrong on several levels but you're mostly wrong because mid lane is not designed specifically for AP mages. It is not their rightful place the same way top lane isn't a bruisers rightful place dedicated to them. They function best in these lanes, they're even balanced around them but they are not designed for these lanes.

hoganftw4 votes

AP items are still garbage though.

Marshbouy4 votes

I have concluded that every time balance isn't horrible the boards just reverts back to raging about yasuo and mages being UP.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

I have concluded that every time balance isn't horrible the boards just reverts back to raging about yasuo and mages being UP.

Probably the most accurate statement ever made on boards.

Marshbouy1 votes

Thanks. I've been following the boards religiously since about preseason 6 and i've noticed it as a trend.

I Main Swain3 votes

so much stupidity in one post i cant even process it all. first of all, "several ap champions" is a drop in the bucket, not to mention the fact that OBVIOUSLY there will be several that will see competitive play because your team pretty much has to have a mage or some kind of decent magic damage dealer to be viable, and most mid laners are in fact, wait for it, MAGES. second, mage players do NOT just want to be able to do literally whatever they want, mage players want to be able to have multiple viable options for itemization whereas now if you were to actually take the time to look at the items you would see that not only are they almost all extremely gold inefficient but if you need mana youre basically required to take morello because nothing else is very good for mana for mages. no, ap is not fine, not even a little bit. its in fact extremely horrible. obviously mages still get played because like i said mages are an essential part of the game. tanks always get played even when it feels like crap to play as a tank, adc's always get played even during assassin metas. im so not in the mood to deal with mindless stupidity right now please delete this thread before the entire boards contracts cancer. normally i would be a lot less pissed about the general herp derp i see on the boards every day but today just no

edit: ima go ahead and apologize in advance just because i know i shouldnt be getting this mad but honestly im so done with hearing stuff like this from people

Executioner2 votes

Im surprised your not getting down voted to death. Most likely because you added Ardent Censor to the mix, and some support items being a bit to good at the moment.

Never mind I lied, I am.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

Im surprised your not getting down voted to death. Most likely because you added Ardent Censor to the mix, and some support items being a bit to good at the moment.

It is too good tho

The rest are arguable. Supports are allowed to be good, too..

Executioner

A small tweak to Ardent will be fine.

I can live with redemption, because it takes a bit of time to activate.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

A small tweak to Ardent will be fine.

I can live with redemption, because it takes a bit of time to activate.

My only complaint about redemption is it feels mandatory. Like, knights vow and even Ardent censor isn't mandatory. Tank supports won't typically build AC but they still do build redemption.

Executioner

Redemption is just that good really. A heal that comes down and heals the team? That is bliss for a support. If they can time it right, after the engage they use it and heal the team up from the cc. Basically why many utility supports get the item. Oh and they use it after death too.

Violet Fields1 votes

Crowd Control = Utility?

HateDaddy5 votes

{quoted}

Crowd Control = Utility?

...yes?

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

That's the general usage of the term, yes. Anything that enhances your team classifies as utility: crowd control, hard or soft, shields, speed ups, etc

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Anything that isn't used solely to deal damage = utility

Waveclear, CC, Debuffs, Zoning Tools, Terrain, etc.

MoldyCheese11 votes

so, mid is burst mage and assassins, but they can't do damage, and pros aren't supposed to go mid laners in mid lane?

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