Welp, goodbye Zoe.

Onotori··7 votes·714 views

Since the assholes that play this game can't be bothered to read telegraphs or think about how a champ works, Zoe was nerfed so hard that she's basically a troll pick at this point. Best part is that Zoe wasn't even broken or particularly strong compared to a lot of other mids, and most of the people complaining about her have never once played her, and have no clue what they're talking about.

Not like it really matters though. In a game like League, you have to appease the crowds of idiots, even if it's not the right thing to do. That's just how F2P works, and that's why we used to laugh at the concept (in America).

And now, if Zoe ever gets buffed back into viability, she won't be anything like the champ we were given. Meddler is talking about making the damage portion of her W an important part of her kit, which means she still won't exist in lane, and will have a lot of her damage on a passive, automatic source that isn't fun to use, and has no counterplay for opponents. But, thing is, you can stack MR against it and ignore it, and it doesn't require you to think at all or dodge or anything, so that's ideal for Riot. Lowers her skillcap, and makes it easier to abuse her in game.

So, just like Poppy before her, we're going to tear her kit apart until she's just a shell of what she used to be. It's neat when every champ you enjoy is just destroyed because of idiots complaining they're too weak or too strong.

I enjoy League, and I'd like to keep playing it, but it's hard to want to when the company in charge of it just doesn't care about anything other than income potential.

24 Comments

Onotori1 votes

You act all smug, but how would you like it if we took your favorite champ and just all but deleted them?

... that's not how you "put quality first" and that's not thinking about balance, that's just catering to assholes and idiots.

Infernape2 votes

If the champion I play was broken beyond belief, I wouldn't be pissed. It happened once with Ekko, once with Vladimir and once again with Caitlyn (although Riot did go way too far on the initial Caitlyn nerfs).

Onotori1 votes

Now what if your champion wasn't broken at all, and was actually weaker and less reliable relative to other champs in their role, but was complained about because they do a lot of damage if you literally stand in their abilities, and an LC$ asshole said they were broken (despite never playing them) so everyone just assumed they were?

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

If the champion I play was broken beyond belief, I wouldn't be pissed. It happened once with Ekko, once with Vladimir and once again with Caitlyn (although Riot did go way too far on the initial Caitlyn nerfs).

Caitlyn was still pro play viable even in THAT state, so it goes to show how strong Cait's design is on a fundamental level.

Nut on my Butt4 votes

They aren't just nerfing her to forget about her, they are leaving her in an underpowered state so they can figure out ways to buff her into a healthier state.

Onotori2 votes

No, they'll leave her in an unplayable state for at least 4-5 patches (until people forget about her), and then buff her just enough to make her not a troll pick, but still weak.

ZapMyHeart2 votes

{quoted}

You act all smug, but how would you like it if we took your favorite champ and just all but deleted them?

... that's not how you "put quality first" and that's not thinking about balance, that's just catering to assholes and idiots.

Karma

Been there. Done that.

Anything else ya got?

ModCaliCoastReplay1 votes

{quoted}

You act all smug, but how would you like it if we took your favorite champ and just all but deleted them?

If! All but! Swain says hello.

Swain: "The old wounds ache. They are reminders."

You only lost a scaling. I've lost amazing scalings on Ahri Kayle Heimerdinger and my favorite kit on Sejuani in the five years I've been playing, and this year my favorite champion and only Mastery 7 to date was literally deleted and replaced with this dude Swain here, who has a super cool voice, but a weird underpowered kit on which my old display of mastery means nothing.

This season I have finally learned how to play Illaoi well and am getting wins and making my opponents unhappy, and if I and other tentacle enthusiasts make enough of them unhappy enough for long enough I am sure she'll get foam tentacles too.

Riot does this. The reasons why can be debated all day long, but on some level it's not likely to change.

hsojbabe3 votes

Shes most likely one of the worst mids atm. Her waveclear has suffered the most. Even at like lvl 9 you sometimes cant 2 shot the back line if you dont aoe properly. She loses a lot of pressure as she no longer has the ability to roam first. The other nerfs arent felt as much. Ive been always capping at 45% cdr so I feel the e nerf a little bit but besides that its ok. The Q nerf is brutal though. I hope riot does something to address this because she went from one of the better waveclear champs to possibly one of the worst and it feels really bad. Lower the damage but let us AOE all of them or something. [sg-janna]

Onotori3 votes

No, Meddler wants her waveclear to be shit. He said as much on Reddit (I can find a link if you want). He said that, ideally, he'd increase the damage on her W, which makes me sad because her W's damage portion is just boring, mindless damage.

All they need to do is give her kit more telegraphing (slow down her Q, make the indicator showing where it lands visible to enemies, etc.), and suddenly she's fine. But Riot doesn't like to do logical things, and they'd rather break something or destroy it. They want her out of competitive play, so they're just goinna make her so bad that no one would want to play her.

Rico Nasty2 votes

Her whole design is trash. She's always gonna be a trollpick or broken and there's no in between.

Onotori2 votes

She wasn't broken before the nerfs, so there is easily an in between.

TheProfezzor2 votes

You’re wrong. Cry less.

Onotori1 votes

Okay, how was she broken?

Dope Solo1 votes

Read the patch notes. It's pretty well spelled out. You can read right?

Onotori1 votes

I don't care what the patch notes say. Tell me how she's broken. You said she is, so you must have a reason.

Malix Farwin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rico Nasty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAhw4qaY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-23T04:34:37.476+0000)

Her whole design is trash. She's always gonna be a trollpick or broken and there's no in between.

She wasn't broken its just he had too much power in her Q which created very frustrating patterns when playing against her the Q nerf was needed but not at that level. She should still be able to wave clear just not to the level she was before. They definitely went way overboard with the Q nerf. Could at least revert the passive change.

Onotori1 votes

People love to complain about her waveclear... but almost every mage mid, and half the assassins, have far better waveclear than she ever did. And that's on top of more reliable damage that's much higher past 2-3 seconds of combat.

Infernape2 votes

Since the assholes that play this game can't be bothered to read telegraphs or think about how a champ works

I didn't know pro players or even diamond+ couldn't be bothered to telegraph or know how a champ works considering they're the top 0.01%/1% of players in the entire world. There's a reason why her ban rate was incredibly high in diamond+ games and why she was literally the most banned champion in pro play across all regions.

Best part is that Zoe wasn't even broken or particularly strong compared to a lot of other mids, and most of the people complaining about her have never once played her, and have no clue what they're talking about.

Because oneshotting someone by taking potshots (especially from the fog of war) makes for engaging gameplay for both Zoe and her opponents. This is the exact same thing Nidalee got reworked for. All she did was take potshots with her Q. If it hit, it oneshot, if it didn't repeat ad nauseam.

Onotori1 votes

{quoted}

I didn't know pro players or even diamond+ couldn't be bothered to telegraph or know how a champ works considering they're the top 0.01%/1% of players in the entire world. There's a reason why her ban rate was incredibly high in diamond+ games and why she was literally the most banned champion in pro play across all regions.

Well, if I can literally never lose lane to Zoe or ever die to one solo, then I see no reason why a high ELO player can't. The champ's kit is the same, the missile speed is the same, all that. And she has a high ban rate because everyone just assumed she was broken, since everyone was whining about it. Despite that high ban rate, she had a low winrate. And competitive players aren't infallible gods -- they can be wrong, and they can be afraid of a new champ they haven't had much practice against if they want to be.

Because oneshotting someone by taking potshots (especially from the fog of war) makes for engaging gameplay for both Zoe and her opponents. This is the exact same thing Nidalee got reworked for. All she did was take potshots with her Q. If it hit, it oneshot, if it didn't repeat ad nauseam.

Zoe doesn't one shot with her Q unless she's fed. And, when any mage is fed, they can pretty easily one shot or one combo people too, so. Plus, her Q is easy to see coming, since she has to be pretty darn close to you for it to actually hit you (meaning it's not from fog of war), and her E is very easy to see flying at you. Zoe is nothing like old AP Nid, but people just want some excuse they can make, since they don't want to admit they're bad and got hit by a very telegraphed, obvious ability.

LyingOnLine1 votes

And good riddance.

PeachyPosterior1 votes

Her stun was getting spammed a lot and she was 100-0 champs early game. Some nerfs were in order BUT

She's meant to be a high crowd control and high damage champion.

She needs her AOE back against minions. Not against champs because it's supposed to be a skillshot so it should only really effect the champion hit.

She needs more damage for getting her E-Q-R-Q combo right. In return they should put longer cool downs on her E and R so that her enemy has a better chance to harass her if she misses them.

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