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Poppy's W No Dash Mechanic Should Have Gone To Talon

Stephenizgod·Nov 25, 2015·3 votes·1,223 views

This is probably a very unpopular opinion but I feel like that would have been a great mechanic on Talon, for his E.

Something like:

#Debilitating Strike Range: 700
Cost: 35/40/45/50/55 Mana
Cooldown: 18/16/14/12/10 Seconds

Active: Talon blinks to the far side of the target enemy, debilitating them for 0.75 seconds and increasing the damage he deals to them within the next 3 seconds. A debilitated target can not use dash, jump or blink abilities and will be slowed by 30%.

Damage Amplification: 3 / 6 / 9 / 12 / 15%

I mean obviously the numbers would need to be tweaked and changed but i honestly think this is a great mechanic for Talon.

Edit: ok so im getting a lot of downvotes, which is fine, but the reasoning being given is ridiculous. "No assassin should ever get anti-mobility effects"...

has a charm has a stun
has a stun
has a stun
has a root
has a silence and a suppress
has a fear
has a stun
has a root
has a stun
has a fear
has a stun
has a knock-up suppression

This is every champion with "Assassin" in their description who has a better form of hard CC than the one i am proposing...

20 Comments

CrettNov 25, 20157 votes

No assassin should ever get anti-mobility effects; they're the exact type of champion that mechanic should be used against

foristNov 25, 20155 votes

{quoted}

No assassin should ever get anti-mobility effects; they're the exact type of champion that mechanic should be used against

Ahri , Leblanc , Riven , Diana , Pantheon , Fizz , Fiora

Really? Guess these champs just missed that memo.

CrettNov 25, 20151 votes

you just listed every champion I hate!!!!!

foristNov 25, 20154 votes

{quoted}

you just listed every champion I hate!!!!!

uh, but half of them have harder cc's than the one proposed and are still considered balanced.

CrettNov 25, 20151 votes

Balance has nothing to do with it. I hate them on PRINCIPLE! THEY'RE ANNOYING!! http://41.media.tumblr.com/b343e04784081ba034fb84ba4fdc5907/tumblr_inline_nuspdzmRs41qmvtp6_250.png

foristNov 25, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Balance has nothing to do with it. I hate them on PRINCIPLE! THEY'RE ANNOYING!! http://41.media.tumblr.com/b343e04784081ba034fb84ba4fdc5907/tumblr_inline_nuspdzmRs41qmvtp6_250.png

Should probably keep our biases to ourselves when it concerns balance issues. Ofc on these boards any circle-jerk nerf assassins post gets upvoted.

StephenizgodNov 25, 20152 votes

I just listed every "assassin" with a better form of CC than the one i proposed, these include stuns, roots, fears, and suppressions. So i don't understand how an inferior Silence is so much worse than any of those i mentioned...

StellafreyjaNov 25, 20156 votes

No, it's far too strong for an assassin to have. Also, your version includes Blinks, which Poppy's does not, making it extremely strong.

StephenizgodNov 25, 20151 votes

So this is stronger than a stun, root, or a suppression? How?

StellafreyjaNov 25, 20151 votes

Seeing as you edited your post, all the champions you listed are SKILLSHOT based CC. Malzahar and Vi are the only exceptions, but those CCs are their ultimates which is fine.

The point is that a point-and-click blink with debilitate on a normal ability is too strong.

StephenizgodNov 26, 20151 votes

Yea but they are way more powerful than debilitate, it doesn't silence you so you are still able to cast abilities on him. Pantheon's is point-click and a gap closer, Irelia's is point-click and she has a point-click gap closer, Jax' is an AoE stun that also dodges AA's and he has a point-click gap closer, Riven has an AoE stun and several gap closers, Nocturnes fear is point-click. Also Talon's E doesn't do any damage and has a long CD. So i don't see how this is worse than any of those.

StellafreyjaNov 26, 20151 votes

I don't know shit about Pantheon, so I won't comment. Irelia is conditional since it requires her to be lower health than her opponent, but it's not a good comparison considering people have complained about her stun being toxic for ages now. Jax and Riven's AoE stuns are just that. AoE. Meaning you can dodge it. Also you can interrupt Jax as he jumps at you and make him waste his stun. It's really fun. Nocturne's fear is a tether, meaning you can break free of it.

Long cooldown? Doesn't Talon usually build Black Cleaver which gives him 20% CDR? Meaning his E at max rank would be up every 8 seconds. And Youmuu's gives 10% CDR now. His E would be up every 7 seconds.

foristNov 26, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace of Eden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b3UENKAk,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-26T01:36:41.484+0000)

I don't know shit about Pantheon, so I won't comment. Irelia is conditional since it requires her to be lower health than her opponent, but it's not a good comparison considering people have complained about her stun being toxic for ages now. Jax and Riven's AoE stuns are just that. AoE. Meaning you can dodge it. Also you can interrupt Jax as he jumps at you and make him waste his stun. It's really fun. Nocturne's fear is a tether, meaning you can break free of it.

Long cooldown? Doesn't Talon usually build Black Cleaver which gives him 20% CDR? Meaning his E at max rank would be up every 8 seconds. And Youmuu's gives 10% CDR now. His E would be up every 7 seconds.

Generally cut-throat is always maxed last on talon, and 10 seconds at max rank is a long time compared to any other gap closer in the game. Excluding adc's only xin and shaco have comparable cooldowns, xin's charge being 10 and shaco's decieve being 11 seonds. Everyone else with a gapcloser has a much shorter cooldown and or reset mechanics on their gapcloser. (excluding globals ofc)

edit: forgot to mention zed as well with his living shadow on a 14 second cd.

StephenizgodNov 26, 20151 votes

Well Pantheon's W is a point-click stun that is also a gap closer. Agreed on Irelia, you'd think its conditional requirements would hinder its reliability but it doesn't. Jax' stun is indeed dodge-able as you can run before he jumps or CC him, Riven's however is instant and the only way to not get hit is to not be near which is easier said than done as she has a shit ton of gap closers and a knock-up. Nocturne's tether is really long, he has a ms boost, his Ult, and a spellshield for any CC you throw at him. Not saying they are op, although Riven could probably be toned down, but they all have ways off getting to you or mechanics to aid them in landing their CC.

Talon only has his E, which deals 0 damage, but no way to help him get off his damage. There is a reason why he dropped off the radar when his Silence was removed, but there is also a reason he had it in the first place. It was definitely too strong but it was also semi-necessary as he had no other way of dealing with mobile champs. Debilitate solves that without making it impossible to stop him from killing you as it only stops flash so heal/barrier/exhaust/ignite all still work, you can still cast CC, it does not prevent you from using dashes that deal damage it only prevents you from using it to escape.

Also 7 seconds is a pretty long time it can only be used 1 time in a teamfight, it has no reset, can only be used on enemies, and deals no damage. Rengar's has no cooldown plus he can root you from point blank if he doesn't immediately erase you.

MarthianNov 25, 20152 votes

He has the easiest kill combo of all assassins, no he doesn't need help.

Colgate GatorNov 25, 20152 votes

Wat.

You mean he would apply that before or after his targeted blink?

The Bearded BardNov 25, 20151 votes

That's a strange way to spell Jarvan 4

foristNov 26, 20151 votes

You could actually add : LeeSin , XinZhao , and Yasuo to your list if you are going by riot categories excluding marksman assassins ofc.

StephenizgodNov 26, 20151 votes

I wanted to onoly add assassins with easy simple forms of CC like point-click or simple skillshots, although LeeSin does have the bs stun before his Kick which needs to be removed. Xin and Yas at least require a few steps before their CC, not saying they aren't easy just saying i was trying to make a point and i didnt feel they would help get that point across.

ChaddyFantomeNov 27, 20151 votes

Make it only affect dashes and make it work with his passive. Also, put it on his Q bleed instead. It gives a window to avoid it and makes more sense thematically, especially since his Q reveals and leaves a blood trail.

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