Okay i can't find his bot lane winrate (although i hear its the #1 highest ADC in the game right now) but his Mid win rate is also sitting near 55%. Its not about Riot nerfing Ziggs because he's bot, they need to nerf him cause he's probably too strong right now.
BeatzBoyFTW2 votes
first, please.
Skorch1 votesCait maybe, Vayne is fine. Too bad Ziggs has i higher winrate than both no matter where he goes though : ^)
Hyperiön1 votesZiggs is all skill shots, not point and click like these two.
Skorch2 votesThat doesnt mean anything, just because people deal damage with autos doesnt make them any less different in winrate.
Hyperiön1 votesWin rate doesn't mean anything tbh, theres a lot more things over bearing than Ziggs.
Ive been playing him since I started. before the nerfs and after. Not once has ziggs been an issue since they nerfed him. Even after the MYMU, no one batted an eye. Now that he is the fotm, everyone is losing their shit over it.
Skorch1 votesWin rate means everything it is the #1 grounds as to telling what champions are strong and weak, ive known he has been strong since the MYMU but NO ONE beleived me
Truly Prideful1 votesWinrate does not mean everything. A lot of champions that will periodically show up in the top 5 of their role will have 1% playrates. You have to look at more factors than winrate to figure out if the champion is a problem or if their winrate is just a product of the current meta.
Skorch1 votesWhile yes there is other factors to determine strength but if urgot was sitting on 75% winrate there would definetly be some sort of reason that he would needed to be nerfed. Winrate reflects the champions strength.
While other things may skew results, with a sample size of thousands, it is a pretty good modifier.
Truly Prideful1 votesIf Urgot was sitting at 75% winrate with 50 games played it would still mean very little. Ziggs does have a strong winrate, but I don't think he's actually overpowered at all. The only worth looking at is scaling the execute percent up more slowly. The rest of his kit is fine as is.
Hyperiön1 votesThe only thing about ziggs that needs a little touchup is his Sachet on turrets. Maybe lower the percent
Truly Prideful1 votesThis is really the only thing they should look at. If anything make the execute scale up more slowly. Start it at 15-20% and scale it up to the current cap. Keeps his lategame push intact while slowing it down early on.
Elite4Runner1 votesAs opposed to his strength since patch 6.9, .. when he received his last balance changes. ..
He is only "strong now" because someone well known noticed that he has been strong this whole time.
Dynikus1 votesWell yeah, he's been strong for a while. Just nobody noticed before for whatever reason. With the nerf of rylai's, some of the champions that were stronger than him that used it as a core item got knocked down a bit
Skorch1 votesJust because he was changed then doesn't mean his power hasn't fluctuated since then
Elite4Runner2 votesJust because he was changed then doesn't mean his power hasn't fluctuated since then
Agreed, but his abilities have not changed in order to make him better as an ADC.
It isn't HIM that has changed, so why does Riot need to 'fix' him?
Skorch2 votesI didnt say "Fix" I said nerf. I personally don't think any champion in the game needs to be "Fixed." And he needs to be nerfed because he is (Apparently) the highest winrate ADC and the 3rd highest winrate Midlaner.
The boards has some sort of theory that "A strong champ is strong no matter theyre winrate" and it's just false. If their numbers, strength, and kit are sitting at 50% then they are a balanced champion, as they win as many games as they lose.
It doesnt matter if its a 45% winrate in Bronze and 55% winrate in Master, 50% is 50%.
If they are over 50% (usually by about 2.5%) then they are strong. If they are under 50% (usually by about 1%) then they are weak.
Dynikus3 votesNo champion should be able to literally one shot a tower.
Elite4Runner1 votesNo champion should be able to literally one shot a tower.
Agreed, ... and he doesn't
Dynikus2 voteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS5xI8jARQs it's entirely possible.
Elite4Runner1 voteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS5xI8jARQs it's entirely possible.
http://ci.memecdn.com/9712421.jpg
.. damn, ... okay .. lol
I mean, .. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be nerfed....
But .. what I'm saying is that he could do that before. He just wasn't in the spotlight so nobody cared.
CppL1 votesOmg i was afraid of this....
Elite4Runner1 votesI wonder about that though. I know that Shiphtur has already mentioned trying out Viktor in the bottom lane now.
What if it turns out that more mages really just fit the bottom lane better in the current meta?
Could it simply mean that the meta is changing, and does that mean that Riot MUST return it to the way that it was?
Skorch1 votesI personally dont like the game slowly becoming more and more about Win lane as fast as possible then just split every lane.
In current reference ADC Ziggs, Split Push nasus. Are both new and focus more on out spliting the enemy, and sieging. Its kind of obnoxious in my opinion. As its about ending the game asap, and late game champions will soon become unseen, and the only objective becomes towers.
Elite4Runner1 votesI personally dont like the game slowly becoming more and more about Win lane as fast as possible then just split every lane.
In current reference ADC Ziggs, Split Push nasus. Are both new and focus more on out spliting the enemy, and sieging. Its kind of obnoxious in my opinion. As its about ending the game asap, and late game champions will soon become unseen, and the only objective becomes towers.
I see where you're coming from, and I can agree with that.
The thing is, as I said before, Ziggs has been capable of doing this for quite some time now.
My biggest problem with people's (in general, not you apparently, you at least have a valid reason) issue with this "new meta" is that he could have easily been played in the mid lane, let his bot lane push to tower and chip it down until he could roam down and pop the tower.
Some people did do this, but it never really caught on as a strong strategy, because someone famous didn't do it regularly.
But when there is suddenly a new reason to play Ziggs in the bottom lane, and that reason leads to highlighting his ability to burst towers, which again, he has had for quite some time, suddenly it's a problem.
Skorch1 votesI mean ive always known its been a problem. The issue is when people complain ALL ADCs ARE TOO STRONG. When people like 
and sort of 
are really struggling right now. And Marksman are definetly strong when the number 1 adc is ZIGGS. In general people have no clue what is strong in not.
Elite4Runner2 votesIn general people have no clue what is strong in not.
Truer words have never been spoken (or in this case typed)
ned the kled1 votesHow 'bout no?
Skorch2 votesHow 'bout yes? You think of that one?
ned the kled1 voteshow 'bout you learn to dodge his q's?
Skorch1 votesBecause damaging the enemy is definetly the reason ziggs bot is good
Hyperiön1 votesThey haven't touched Ziggs since they gutted him pretty much season 5.
It is all the Damage creep they are adding into the game that is making him actually playable for the first time in 2 seasons.
Skorch1 votesHe still needs to be nerfed
Hyperiön1 votesJust because the meta shifted to him because he does an ADC's job better doesn't mean he needs nerfs.
Ziggs has always had an amazing early and mid game, and a subpar late game. The exact opposite of ADC's. He fills the role 100%
You can thank riot for making this game into 15 minute shit stomps.
vampirekid131 votesthey should buff him and start slowly moving the meta away from having ADCs in every single game, im sick of seeing ADCs in every game since season 2.
no other class is in 100% of games. why are ADCs special?
Skorch1 votesNO, JUST no... Just because a controversial pick is good doesnt mean it should be overlooked in balancing because "Fuck current meta lul"
vampirekid131 votesIt's not the current meta. The issue is ADCS have been completely out of control since season 2. ADCs should not be mandatory in every game. Just like all other classes
Skorch1 votesI will forever scoff at people saying ADCs are OP since they are needed, ADC isn't a class, it also isnt the only thing needed in every game.
Saying they are needed in every game i will never find as a reasonable reason to not allow them.
Tanks are also needed in every game, so should we just nerf all tanks?
vampirekid131 votesI will forever scoff at people saying ADCs are OP since they are needed, ADC isn't a class, it also isnt the only thing needed in every game.
Saying they are needed in every game i will never find as a reasonable reason to not allow them.
Tanks are also needed in every game, so should we just nerf all tanks?
Tanks aren't needed in every game. I mean maybe now temporarily. But over the time they have been replaced by assassins and fighters. The meta shifted from tanks in s3 and s4. And what is ADC? since it's not a class. I imagine a lane then?
Skorch1 votesIndeed a game is winnable without a tank, but its a hell of a lot more difficult. Its also possible to win without an ADC, do you know who proves that? Ziggs APC, the occasional other picks that work down there that shouldnt, like my personal favorites.
Talon/Katarina Cass/Kass Sona/Soraka
Are they meta? NO, Can you get away with it YES! You can get away with removing somethings, it just makes it harder to win.
You can't nerf an entire goddamn group of champions just because "They are in every game"
ADC is a Role.
Classes: Assassin Fighter Mage Tank Support Marksman
Lanes: Top Mid Bot Jg Supp
Roles: ADC Utility Tank Burst etc... (yes some repeat)
vampirekid131 votesIndeed a game is winnable without a tank, but its a hell of a lot more difficult. Its also possible to win without an ADC, do you know who proves that? Ziggs APC, the occasional other picks that work down there that shouldnt, like my personal favorites.
Talon/Katarina Cass/Kass Sona/Soraka
Are they meta? NO, Can you get away with it YES! You can get away with removing somethings, it just makes it harder to win.
You can't nerf an entire goddamn group of champions just because "They are in every game"
ADC is a Role.
Classes: Assassin Fighter Mage Tank Support Marksman
Lanes: Top Mid Bot Jg Supp
Roles: ADC Utility Tank Burst etc... (yes some repeat)
its only more difficult at this point in time. there have been points in time when tanks were not needed at all, and were not present at all in games, for entire seasons. season 2 was a tank metal, season 3 had almost no tanks present, season 4 was a mishmash of classes, with still low representation of tanks. mages were mandatory mid in season 2. assassins were mandatory mid in season 3 etc, all classes fluctuate in and out of the meta.
neither of the options you provided for a successful bot lane do not have the actual secret ingredient of being able to push towers at the lightning speed that ranged ADCs can.
again, the reason why ranged ADCs are OP and need to be fixed so they are not present in every single game is because they can dish out a monumental amount of sustained damage, from far away, AND dish out a monumental amount of damage to structures, from far away, AND sustain the damage all the time AND never die due to lifesteal. thats too much. they need significant nerfs. and in a perfect world EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER should be able to push turrets at the same speed. that would leave ADCs with sustained damage over long teamfights, which is a great perk to have, but hardly necessary.
now lets tackle your grossly incorrect class/lane/role table.
if ADC is a role we need to nerf ranged ADCs and see more yi/fiora in bot lane. im just kidding. because as i previously said, you are wrong on your roles.
http://puu.sh/tffi7/53a78c5c9f.png
those are the roles in league of legends.
http://puu.sh/tffmN/18a9ccf7e1.png
these are the classes of league of legends.
now lets go back to your argument that ADC is a role not a class. in that case, the role needs to be filled out by more than just marksmen. for example, we should let ziggs fill it out.
so, ok, Marksmen, which is a class, should not be present in every single league of legends game because this only shows how oppressive and overpowered they are as a class. marksmen should be like every other class and excel at a specific situation not 3. and they should only be viable in certain compositions, not all compositions.
Skorch1 votesI still do not think they are overpowered as a class, ADCs are in every game because they are the source of elongated damage (or supposed to be) no other class in the game comes anywhere near being able to do steady damage except for some fighters. While other classes get action in other lanes because they can do everything else, while ADCs can ONLY do damage.
How can people tell me marksmans are OP when the #1 ADC is Ziggs.
Meep Man1 votesAn unpopular opinion, but I do think he needs some tuning, but not specific to Bottom Lane. Like, he needs something changed, but don't know what. His win rate is very high for his moderate play rate.
Skorch1 votesYes, exactly, Im not against bot Ziggs, im against 55% winrate in multiple lanes.
Très Pauvre1 votesmake his passive not apply to towers you only really need one tower execute....
Skorch1 votestrue, 1 shotting towers shouldnt be allowed
Agan Mardrus1 voteswell, the pbe is seeing increases to mr yields on some items to curb the burgeoning power of mid laners right now.
that being said i do believe a nerf to ziggs would not be remiss. if not removing his tower bombing entirely then curbing so it doesn't have the scale that it has right now. (currently scales up to 35% which is, A LOT. that's over 1000 true damage to turrets at tier 5) i think at the very least, bringing the execute scaling on that ability alone down to 10% scaling to 25-30% at rank 5 would be entirely appropriate.
Skorch1 votesIt took 13 DAYS, for someone ACTUALLY LOGICAL to show up
Thats just saddening.
ziigaaa1 votesthey can make ziggs kassadin 2.0 as far as I care, but nerf the tower dmg. you don't even need to hit skillshots, just hit towers. that's the reason people cry about ziggs, he simply is changing the pace of the game, snowballing the whole team just because he can oneshot towers
