Am I the only one tired of this? The majority of mages go through the same thing because they don't have the mana to fight back. Mages were penalized with the mana changes to stop them from braindead farming. But Zed gets to do this for free. To top it off, he has no mana and tons of damage and escapes from ganks.
Can anyone explain how this is fair?
The thigh guy50 votesSame. Zed is fucking cancerous and definetly needs cooldowns adjusted.
Or just increase turret range already.
Dasdi9610 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-24T23:28:01.998+0000)
Same. Zed is fucking cancerous and definetly needs cooldowns adjusted.
Or just increase turret range already.
He just got nerfed this patch. When will ap mids learn to buy seekers first?
Sillae13 votesHe just got nerfed this patch. When will ap mids learn to buy seekers first?
I mean Zed mains constantly complain about seekers and cry for it to be nerfed too.
EDIT: Idk why it's getting downvoted, it's the truth.
https://www.reddit.com/r/zedmains/comments/a8g7k3/if_this_change_goes_through_they_need_to_nerf_the/
IP Masquerena20 votesWhile Zed was S+ tier on everyone's lists last patch, Zed mains called him "barely playable".
SnupRawr16 votesHe just fucking deletes you every time he combos. Its just stupid as fk that i either have to pick fizz and farm or take my chances. Thank god not everyone uses zed or mid would be a depressing failure.
Sir Saltarin12 votesCan anyone explain how this is fair?
Because armor exists, next time dont rush a full mana item, keep the Lost Chapter and then buy Zhonyas.
But well, you can also refuse to learn how to play against Zed and cry on the Boards.
theChibiTina37 votesYou can't go 
and then 
. You have to buy 
first because he's gonna rush 
and if you don't you're just gonna get screwed as he consistently half healths you. Then you continue to have mana problems while he abuses the fact you couldn't rush a mana item and now have to wait until you have the 1300 gold to afford . Playing against a Zed as a mage is torture. Even worse so when he starts to roam and your teammates don't know how to listen to pings and fall back so he gets fed on top of things.
Moonscourge7 votesYou can't go
Learn to manage mana. If you have trouble you can buy a second Doran's. You don't have to finish Armguard, the 15 armor of Cloth Armor for 300g is enough to negate the Lethality he gets from his full item. Lethality isn't that effective early in the game, so at the point he has a Duskblade it will negate around 15 armor, giving you enough time to get a Chapter and Stopwatch.
Also learn to flash his ultimate properly. Helps deal with him a ton and avoid wasting Stopwatch. You flash the second he leaves ult so he can't shuriken you instantly.
Abuse his W cooldown. Once he used it or jumped you have a window to punish. Sometimes you can bait them into using it by making them think you left to roam, but you stand behind the river wall. When he used it you just walk up to him and deal damage for free.
The Chillin4 votesLow elo mage players HHHHATE when you ask them to learn how to manage Mana.
2Charmnot2Charm3 votes[{quoted}](name=The Chillin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=0006000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-25T05:32:59.008+0000)
Low elo mage players HHHHATE when you ask them to learn how to manage Mana.
With how popular that stupid mode called urf is we shouldn't be surprised.
Dasdi964 votesYou can't go
Seekers 1st is fine, just don't spam spells off cooldown trying to harass him.
The thigh guy10 votesSeekers 1st is fine, just don't spam spells off cooldown trying to harass him.
Okay. So give up any pushing power you have, and let him free farm because you can’t abuse his one weakness (being melee) got it.
Moonscourge5 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=0006000000010001,timestamp=2019-04-25T01:23:15.821+0000)
Okay. So give up any pushing power you have, and let him free farm because you can’t abuse his one weakness (being melee) got it.
Imagine having AoE abilities and not actually using them to hit champions AND wave.
Wasn't that why mages were so OP? Having large AoEs that deal a lot of damage? Why is it then that everytime somebody cries about how unfair being a mage is and everybody is just shitting on them that suddenly stops being a thing?
Seriously. You don't use spells on cooldown, you learn to manage your mana and you learn that C O M P O N E N T S exist. Know what builds into Armguard AND Chapter? Amp Tome. It's cheap, it's good. Same with Cloth Armor. Get 1 or maybe even 2 Cloth Armors, finish your Chapter. You do not need Armguard early in the game if you cannot deal with your mana otherwise. Also use your god damn ranged auto attacks because those are good at pushing too. Focus casters first, keep auto attacking melees. Learn to manage the wave, look out for tells in the enemy behaviour. A Zed W Q is always telegraphed if you try to look for it for example.
If you don't know how, here let me help you:
Remember that he wants to hit a double shuriken and understand that there are only a limited amount of angles he can use to do that while waves are crashing. Like if he stands to the right of the wave he will most likely throw a W into the minions, then E Q into your direction to hit you with both Q's. If he does it straight up in the wave then it becomes even easier.
Then there are Zed players who won't use your W at all unless it is to all in you. Those are scarier, because they will likely jump you with their E first to slow, then follow it up immediately with a double shuriken. To avoid that you need to move unpredictably. Try walking forward instead of backwards to your tower, because that's what most people would do. Play mindgames, throw him out of his routine. Punish whenever W is on cooldown. Remember that minions reduce shuriken damage and never stand close to the shadow.
When he ults you and has a W out, try throwing out your spells where he comes out of his R. Stuff like Cassio ult are amazing at this. He is always behind you afterwards and if you land a CC or even walk in the right direction you can almost dodge all of his damage already. If he does the instant switcheroo don't panic and still try moving unpredictably. If he just auto attacks you down you should just back off, it shouldn't kill you at that point.
But you're just going to say "no but that's not how it goes" and my time will be wasted.
The thigh guy14 votesImagine having AoE abilities and not actually using them to hit champions AND wave.
Wasn't that why mages were so OP? Having large AoEs that deal a lot of damage? Why is it then that everytime somebody cries about how unfair being a mage is and everybody is just shitting on them that suddenly stops being a thing?
Seriously. You don't use spells on cooldown, you learn to manage your mana and you learn that C O M P O N E N T S exist. Know what builds into Armguard AND Chapter? Amp Tome. It's cheap, it's good. Same with Cloth Armor. Get 1 or maybe even 2 Cloth Armors, finish your Chapter. You do not need Armguard early in the game if you cannot deal with your mana otherwise. Also use your god damn ranged auto attacks because those are good at pushing too. Focus casters first, keep auto attacking melees. Learn to manage the wave, look out for tells in the enemy behaviour. A Zed W Q is always telegraphed if you try to look for it for example.
If you don't know how, here let me help you:
Remember that he wants to hit a double shuriken and understand that there are only a limited amount of angles he can use to do that while waves are crashing. Like if he stands to the right of the wave he will most likely throw a W into the minions, then E Q into your direction to hit you with both Q's. If he does it straight up in the wave then it becomes even easier.
Then there are Zed players who won't use your W at all unless it is to all in you. Those are scarier, because they will likely jump you with their E first to slow, then follow it up immediately with a double shuriken. To avoid that you need to move unpredictably. Try walking forward instead of backwards to your tower, because that's what most people would do. Play mindgames, throw him out of his routine. Punish whenever W is on cooldown. Remember that minions reduce shuriken damage and never stand close to the shadow.
When he ults you and has a W out, try throwing out your spells where he comes out of his R. Stuff like Cassio ult are amazing at this. He is always behind you afterwards and if you land a CC or even walk in the right direction you can almost dodge all of his damage already. If he does the instant switcheroo don't panic and still try moving unpredictably. If he just auto attacks you down you should just back off, it shouldn't kill you at that point.
But you're just going to say "no but that's not how it goes" and my time will be wasted.
Litteraly EVERYTHING you’ve said requires him to make a mistake. :/ So lane is determined entirely by him and not me.
Ravenborn6 votesSince when is being melee in this game weakness?
The thigh guy5 votesSince when is being melee in this game weakness?
It’s not anymore. But people like to cry it is so.
5StackUltOneShot4 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=000600000001000100020000,timestamp=2019-04-25T16:01:48.926+0000)
It’s not anymore. But people like to cry it is so.
Are fucking delusional or what? Do you know how badly tanks and juggernauts get raped at toplane by almost every other class in the game. Literally being any melee champions without a dash you instantly lose against any non-support ranged champions. But yah no we cry dont we fucking mage mains
The thigh guy4 votesAre fucking delusional or what? Do you know how badly tanks and juggernauts get raped at toplane by almost every other class in the game. Literally being any melee champions without a dash you instantly lose against any non-support ranged champions. But yah no we cry dont we fucking mage mains
Best items in the game. Best runes in the game. Nothing is nerfed specifically for you. Strongest kits in the game. Most mobility in the game.
But you know. “Muh melee” Point proven.
5StackUltOneShot2 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=00060000000100010002000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-25T17:17:53.251+0000)
Best items in the game. Best runes in the game. Nothing is nerfed specifically for you. Strongest kits in the game. Most mobility in the game.
But you know. “Muh melee” Point proven.
I specifically type 'tanks and juggernauts' then go on to say 'any melee champions without a dash', this idiot then goes on to say bUt BeSt MoBiLiTy. There should be an age limit to join the boards pft
The thigh guy3 votesI specifically type 'tanks and juggernauts' then go on to say 'any melee champions without a dash', this idiot then goes on to say bUt BeSt MoBiLiTy. There should be an age limit to join the boards pft
Righteous glory Deadman’s plate Triforce Black cleaver Full power phase rush
But you know. Totally immobile. 500+ constant ms is somehow immobile. :/
5StackUltOneShot2 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=0006000000010001000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-25T18:52:57.468+0000)
Righteous glory Deadman’s plate Triforce Black cleaver Full power phase rush
But you know. Totally immobile. 500+ constant ms is somehow immobile. :/
Righteous and deadmans both disappear once you actually entire the fight, phase rush can be used on anyone so that arguement doesnt make sense and trinity cleaver????
Triforce +5% movespeed vs 
+10% move speed, are you serious?
Z3Sleeper3 votesYes because every juggernaut spawns in with those items. We totally don't have to suffer through 10 minutes of hell against a ranged top laner before one those are built.
But hey yknow, ranged champs only get:
Blade of the Ruined King Phage items Phantom Dancer Frozen Mallet Gunblade Stormrazor Literally every Zeal item that has 5%+ MS Full power phase rush (guess you weren't here for past 10+ patches) Fleet Footwork Glacial Augment
But you know, totally easy win for the juggernaut player with their 500+ constant ms cuz ranged slows and cc somehow don't exist. :/
The thigh guy2 votesYes because every juggernaut spawns in with those items. We totally don't have to suffer through 10 minutes of hell against a ranged top laner before one those are built.
But hey yknow, ranged champs only get:
Blade of the Ruined King Phage items Phantom Dancer Frozen Mallet Gunblade Stormrazor Literally every Zeal item that has 5%+ MS Full power phase rush (guess you weren't here for past 10+ patches) Fleet Footwork Glacial Augment
But you know, totally easy win for the juggernaut player with their 500+ constant ms cuz ranged slows and cc somehow don't exist. :/
All items that are also buildable on melee Champions.
Also, slows aren’t range exclusive dude. ;/ melee gets ALOT more slows than range champions.
Z3Sleeper2 votesNono dude we have to build those items you mentioned or we die too fast to even close the gap.
Quite the conundrum huh?
"Melee gets ALOT more slows than range champions."
LOL. Nice meme dude. Juggernauts have more slows than ranged champs omegalul.
Saianna6 votesyou lack the imagination. All you see is "BUY SEEKER" but nothing beyond.
Without mana and mana regen mages can not outpush Zeds waves. They get OOM just trying to farm and we all know by now how shitty mage-cs farming is, right?
Even with lost chapter you'll be scrapping your empty mana tanks, it'll take maybe 2-2 waves longer
Moonscourge5 votesyou lack the imagination. All you see is "BUY SEEKER" but nothing beyond.
Without mana and mana regen mages can not outpush Zeds waves. They get OOM just trying to farm and we all know by now how shitty mage-cs farming is, right?
Even with lost chapter you'll be scrapping your empty mana tanks, it'll take maybe 2-2 waves longer
If you're a bad player this is definitely true.
Saianna3 votesI guess you haven't played mid vs Zed too often ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Moonscourge4 votesI guess you haven't played mid vs Zed too often ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I play vs Zed every other game that I'm Mid. I'm just not shit enough to lose against him by default.
Ironmad3 votesYou can't go
This sums up every game vs Zed ever. He hits like a truck and have cheap starter items while a mage needs atleast 2 items to counter it.
Ephixus1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-04-24T23:53:39.105+0000)
Because armor exists, next time dont rush a full mana item, keep the Lost Chapter and then buy Zhonyas.
But well, you can also refuse to learn how to play against Zed and cry on the Boards.
That's the point even armor doesnt help against lethality items he get first.
Sir Saltarin5 votesThat's the point even armor doesnt help against lethality items he get first.
Okay, I'm gonna ask you in a polite way if you have even readed what Lethality does, because what you just said doesn't make sense
Ephixus1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=000600010000,timestamp=2019-04-25T11:39:57.221+0000)
Okay, I'm gonna ask you in a polite way if you have even readed what Lethality does, because what you just said doesn't make sense
You are legit (removed by moderation) [sg-miss-fortune]
Do u understand that mages can't stack armor?
Iota Theta4 votesYou are legit x [sg-miss-fortune]
Whoa there. That’s uncalled for.
Do u understand that mages can't stack armor?
No, but you can buy Cloth armor, which builds into Seeker’s Armguard, which builds into Zhonya’s, a core mage item. Yes, you lose out on mana from Lost Chapter, but part of dealing with an opponent who has a stronger early lane is knowing when and how to build against them, even if it means delaying another item. It’s simile to how Malzahar, Warwick, and Skarner all make the enemy have to pay the “QSS tax.”
Lethality is flat armor pen. Buying armor reduces it’s effectiveness. And early on, Cloth Armor alone provides more armor than Serrated Dirk can penetrate.
The formula is, according to the wiki:
Flat Armor Penetration = Lethality × (0.6 + 0.4 × level ÷ 18)
Serrated Dirk gives 10 lethality. At level 6, that’s penetrating 7.3 armor. Duskblade of Draktharr gives 21 lethality, so at the same level would penetrate 15.4 armor.
Cloth armor gives 15 armor. Congrats, at level 6 against a level 6 Zed, you can negate the Lethality of an 1100 gold item (Dirk) and a 2900 gold item (Duskblade) with a 300 gold buy.
But, this is an AD assassin, mainly Zed, complaint thread.
Ephixus1 votes[{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=00060001000000000002,timestamp=2019-04-25T13:27:39.440+0000)
Whoa there. That’s uncalled for.
No, but you can buy Cloth armor, which builds into Seeker’s Armguard, which builds into Zhonya’s, a core mage item. Yes, you lose out on mana from Lost Chapter, but part of dealing with an opponent who has a stronger early lane is knowing when and how to build against them, even if it means delaying another item. It’s simile to how Malzahar, Warwick, and Skarner all make the enemy have to pay the “QSS tax.”
Lethality is flat armor pen. Buying armor reduces it’s effectiveness. And early on, Cloth Armor alone provides more armor than Serrated Dirk can penetrate.
The formula is, according to the wiki:
Serrated Dirk gives 10 lethality. At level 6, that’s penetrating 7.3 armor. Duskblade of Draktharr gives 21 lethality, so at the same level would penetrate 15.4 armor.
Cloth armor gives 15 armor. Congrats, at level 6 against a level 6 Zed, you can negate the Lethality of an 1100 gold item (Dirk) and a 2900 gold item (Duskblade) with a 300 gold buy.
But, this is an AD assassin, mainly Zed, complaint thread.
Congratulations you learnt in school multiplication, so what?
You think it's enough to survive assassins with Zhonyas, or cloth armor early game?
Daddy Ants4 votesCongratulations you learnt in school multiplication, so what?
You think it's enough to survive assassins with Zhonyas, or cloth armor early game?
You'd be surprised.
Lethality is a scaling stat.
A Serrated Dirk at level 6 provides 7.33 armor penetration.
A Cloth Armor is 15 armor.
Let's look at the completed Lethality items a bit shall we
https://i.gyazo.com/fd28268fe191d9b9c3efb57af364e701.png
Buy 1 cloth armor and you're set until level 11.
Mage players need to get their heads out of the clouds and realize that armor is an EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE stat vs Lethality champions.
Before you accuse me of being a Zed or Talon player. I'm actually a Vayne / Kai'Sa player.
I have less than 50k mastery and level 5 on Zed from purely playing him in ARAM's and Game Modes.
I have like 15k points on Talon and Mastery 4. Again from ARAM and Game Modes.
Moonscourge4 votesCongratulations you learnt in school multiplication, so what?
You think it's enough to survive assassins with Zhonyas, or cloth armor early game?
Holy shit how delusional can a single person be. Yes, Cloth and Zhonyas are more than enough. If you're unable to lane against him maybe try harder. It's not rocket science. You guys just claim it's 100% impossible to win, why doesn't he have a winrate that reflects it, huh?
Meredith Stout10 votestry playing something that's not morgana, or if Zed is such problem, just ban him.
The thigh guy23 votestry playing something that's not morgana, or if Zed is such problem, just ban him.
Zed is cancerous. There is a big difference between. Oh. They counter picked me, this will be hard. And they picked zed, guess I don’t get to play the game tonight.
Meredith Stout3 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-04-24T23:46:20.963+0000)
Zed is cancerous. There is a big difference between. Oh. They counter picked me, this will be hard. And they picked zed, guess I don’t get to play the game tonight.
jesus christ, guy is OTP Morgana. If Zed is such big problem he should find a way around it. Ban him or roam other lanes.
TheGreatNinx7 votestbh anyone having issues trading with a zed just needs know how to play their champion better. Faced many zeds have won and lost to them just a matter of how you play the lane and what champion you are playing.
IShowerWithUrDad8 votesanivia and malzahar are really strong picks against him, although its a race for level 6 on malz
The thigh guy7 votesanivia and malzahar are really strong picks against him, although its a race for level 6 on malz
Malz isn’t even good for that long against him. Because duskblade of braindead is so cheap he gets qss before you are even close to relevant.
IShowerWithUrDad6 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-04-25T00:04:15.344+0000)
Malz isn’t even good for that long against him. Because duskblade of braindead is so cheap he gets qss before you are even close to relevant.
I you like being bullied in real life, mid Sion is really strong against him. Howerver, your team will probably report you if you lose.
Daddy Ants4 votesI'm tired of seeing Mages rush Lost Chapter vs Zed and then cry when they are useless.
Seekers Armguard is a cheap and very effective item.
KirbyCake4 voteszed is an ad champion so he gets to shit on you early and mid game while you outscale him late as a mage.
As if games even get that far anymore.
Séance3 votesI would suggest your doing it wrong. If he uses W to trade, the you should get a very long Cd to farm safely and harass him back, if he holds on to it, then he really isn't that hard to deal with. Same thing with using his abilities to push wave, he uses Q to farm? you have a window where he can not trade very well. I by no means enjoy that matchup with most mages, but it is by no means the "hugging the tower for 10 mins" nightmare you make it out to be.
Yenn11 votes[{quoted}](name=Fear The Sphere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0WApoV0,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-04-25T00:46:11.702+0000)
I would suggest your doing it wrong. If he uses W to trade, the you should get a very long Cd to farm safely and harass him back, if he holds on to it, then he really isn't that hard to deal with. Same thing with using his abilities to push wave, he uses Q to farm? you have a window where he can not trade very well. I by no means enjoy that matchup with most mages, but it is by no means the "hugging the tower for 10 mins" nightmare you make it out to be.
What? You've probably never played against a Diamond+ Zed main.
Zed puts his W on top of you and hits you with E + at least one Q. It's unavoidable.
That combo deals 473 damage at level 7 with only Serrated Dirk. Casters have about 44 armor and 960 health with Chapter. Lethality reduces the armor to 37. Total damage taken after armor is around 347. That's 36% of your max health.
If he lands two shurikens, it does about 443 damage, or about 46% of your max health. This is low enough for him to just ult and kill you once his cooldowns are back up.
You now also have to play around his shadow, because it effectively zones you from the wave, and you're creating distance from your turret by side stepping around it to continue CSing. Zed can use this for cover while he picks up some CS before the shadow drops, then get the rest from a safe range with Q, only missing maybe one or two.
Absolute worst case scenario, he does this twice and always misses the second Q, and the third time he can kill you with his ult. It's unavoidable damage, and most mid laners have no way to reliably trade with him when he does this, either because the minions are blocking your skill shots or because he's too far away to guarantee a skill shot lands.
If you try to rush Armguard, you just delay the time he needs to kill you to three W + E + Q combos, instead of four, with the added bonus that you quickly run OOM and have to leave lane, giving him plating gold, priority over objectives, and also free roams, which is potentially even worse than if he had just killed you.
Saianna4 votesZed mains sure try to downvote anything anti-zed related :D
Slogg3 votesThis guy. Couldn't have said it better. Zed is a cancer in mid with no recourse for mages to do anything but die or get behind 40+ cs in 15 mins and however many tower armor he feels like taking before he curbstomps another lane while you're at the grey screen or backed for your 6th time.
