So why is elo decay even a thing anymore?

HateDaddy··98 votes·9,441 views

Currently, you aren't even required to climb and maintain a climb to obtain season rewards. Basically, just hit gold V (which really ISNT that hard, anyone who is able to play at the average elo silver 4-3 can get G5 just by grinding), sit on your ass and collect season rewards. Meanwhile, plat + players must play a ranked game every 28 days or face decay and they get the same bundle of rewards except different borders.

Now don't get me wrong, this isn't me hating on Gold players or their rewards because as a diamond player, if I didn't care about keeping the rank, I'd still decay back to gold and still collect rewards. But at this point, why even bother? Everyone gets the same rewards now, so why are plats+ forced to play? I get why master tier and challenger tier face decay because of the ladders but anything else seems silly. If as a diamond player, I must maintain my elo every 28 days to keep my rewards, why don't gold players have to? And as I stated, this isn't an anti-gold post, the better question is outside of masters/challenger, why does anyone have to face decay?

My only theory is to catch boosted players. For example, every 20-25 days when you have a diamond 5 0 LP player gojng 0/15, it's a pretty good indicator that this player was boosted. But that's such an inefficient method of preventing boosting since:

A) most boosters will play a game for them every 20-25 days to prevent decay and suspicion.

B) Most boosts take place at the end of the season to avoid this all together.

So at this point, you only have this to catch, what? Maybe 0.5% of a player base that is boosted and stick it to the rest of the legit players for a system that isn't efficient anyway? And lyte has already mentioned working on a system to actively catch boosted players/boosts, so clearly he realizes this method isn't efficient either.

Also, the other incredibly stupid part about this is that your LP decays but your MMR does not decay. For example, I have a friend who has to go away for 2 months for on-the job training where he's not able to take any computers/laptops outside of company sponsored ones for online testing that don't allow him to add anything onto it. What if he was diamond? By the time he'd get back, he'd decay down to low plat but when he continues his ranked play, he'd be low plat PLAYING AGAINST DIAMOND PLAYERS. Sure, he'd gain more LP and likely skip divisions but why is he even faced with such a daunting prospect in the first place? To prevent people from purposely decaying to bronze, again, an extremely tiny population that pales in comparison to the legit players this negatively impacts.

Outside of catching boosters and the LP decay/non MMR decay catching a small amount of abusers, I can't possibly see why you'd have elo decay. Because if your reasoning is that you must maintain your climb/rank to receive rewards, then you're admitting that getting gold isn't hard OR your entire reason is contradicted then by saying you don't want people to lose them once they obtain them, thus the reason for not decaying in gold. Once again, this is not an anti-gold rewards post, but any reasoning you present for gold not decaying makes absolutely no sense and is contradicted completely. And my solution to that isn't to stick it to gold players, it's to remove decay entirely outside of masters/challenge and perfect your elo boosting detection system.

106 Comments

Beerstein17 votes

Elo decay should remain to a point, it's meant to prevent people from getting rusty and bringing that play upon their teams. It should be 3 months IMO though.

HateDaddy18 votes

{quoted}

Elo decay should remain to a point, it's meant to prevent people from getting rusty and bringing that play upon their teams. It should be 3 months IMO though.

That's fair but that's completely contradicted by the fact that your MMR doesn't decay, just your LP. I'm diamond 5, 31 LP atm. I lose 50 LP each decay, so if I decayed after my 28 day grace, I believe it would have me as being diamond 5 -19 LP. My next decay would be 7 days later, putting me to plat 1 75 LP. Then in plat, every 7 days after that I'd lose 35 LP. So in three months time, as it fits this example, I'd decay all the way to gold 1 75 LP, but I'd still be playing against diamond players because my MMR didn't decay. So the rust factor is completey taken out of this since your level of competition doesn't change, just your league. So I have to suddenly play against equally skilled players as myself but be in a league and division below what I'm playing at. I have no words for the kind of frustration alone something like that provides.

Linna Excel1 votes

What if your MMR decayed (to a degree, like 10% max) but your LP stayed the same?

HateDaddy6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ankPIGo6,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2015-07-27T23:09:04.960+0000)

What if your MMR decayed (to a degree, like 10% max) but your LP stayed the same?

That just opens up abuse then. In theory, I could decay my MMR from D5 31lp to low Plat MMR and decay to something along the line of plat 1 and have easier opponents. They should just make the MMR decay to the average MMR of the LP/league/tier your LP decays to.

Beerstein4 votes

{quoted}

That's fair but that's completely contradicted by the fact that your MMR doesn't decay, just your LP. I'm diamond 5, 31 LP atm. I lose 50 LP each decay, so if I decayed after my 28 day grace, I believe it would have me as being diamond 5 -19 LP. My next decay would be 7 days later, putting me to plat 1 75 LP. Then in plat, every 7 days after that I'd lose 35 LP. So in three months time, as it fits this example, I'd decay all the way to gold 1 75 LP, but I'd still be playing against diamond players because my MMR didn't decay. So the rust factor is completey taken out of this since your level of competition doesn't change, just your league. So I have to suddenly play against equally skilled players as myself but be in a league and division below what I'm playing at. I have no words for the kind of frustration alone something like that provides.

I didn't realize that. It doesn't even make sense then and is pretty dumb, it should be the opposite and again 3 months.

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

I didn't realize that. It doesn't even make sense then and is pretty dumb, it should be the opposite and again 3 months.

Many things about the system don't make a ton of sense, logically at least. That's why its partly our responsibility as members of the community to change the things we deem need to be changed, or at the very least spur discussion on the topic in question and propose alternatives.

Gorgannan1 votes

You're rusty, not bad. A diamond player who hasn't played for 3 years will still be better than a bronze one, and he will get to diamond skill faster. Your MMR SHOULDN'T decay.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

You're rusty, not bad. A diamond player who hasn't played for 3 years will still be better than a bronze one, and he will get to diamond skill faster. Your MMR SHOULDN'T decay.

Can confirm, brother left game in season 3, focused on school, was always better than me. Comes back to game after 2 seasons off and I've achieved Diamond, wrecks me in first game we play as a 1v1 warm up. Fuckin talented little punk... I'd swear he cheats but he was sitting across from me at the table.

HateDaddy10 votes

Hey, I got downvoted. Likely by some moron who didn't even read it. How do I report this toxic forum dweller???

LaceUp235 votes

Bro, calm your titties.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

Bro, calm your titties.

Mmmmm tit tays. =P Afternoon lacey! And no, no league GF, just loving from da wifey.

LaceUp231 votes

Way to accept my friend's request, jerk.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Way to accept my friend's request, jerk.

Me? Or someone else, I'm viewing this in chronological view btw, posting from my phone and discussion view is straight shit on mobiles.

LaceUp231 votes

No, jaymc1130 lol. Chron view lame. Get with the 21st century broksi.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

No, jaymc1130 lol. Chron view lame. Get with the 21st century broksi.

Chronological View Master Race

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

Bro, calm your titties.

Why? The most frustrating thing is writing something up only to be downvoted by a dweller who doesn't even offer why they disagree with you or put thought into it. It's why I don't bother with extremely well thought out posts here anymore because if it's something the vast majority don't agree with and can't low elo circle jerk to, they just downvote it and don't say anything. So yes, it's incredibly annoying.

jaymc11304 votes

{quoted}

Why? The most frustrating thing is writing something up only to be downvoted by a dweller who doesn't even offer why they disagree with you or put thought into it. It's why I don't bother with extremely well thought out posts here anymore because if it's something the vast majority don't agree with and can't low elo circle jerk to, they just downvote it and don't say anything. So yes, it's incredibly annoying.

It is polite, folks, I will mention, to appropriately respond to a thread you agree or disagree with enough to upvote or downvote. Its just common decency to provide your viewpoint in addition to your approval or disapproval. Best of luck on the Rift friends!

Sukishoo2 votes

Most people just vote cause they don't want to bother with the hassle of typing something that someone else will cry over.

It's why I say that they need to disable the voting system all together as that is what makes the forums toxic in itself.

Ghost Bride9 votes

+1 throw it out immediately

nothing to do with the fact that my decay starts in 3 days and my internet wont fix

jaymc11302 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ghost Bride,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ankPIGo6,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-07-27T23:00:45.899+0000)

+1 throw it out immediately

nothing to do with the fact that my decay starts in 3 days and my internet wont fix

Dats rough.... Yikes. Fly ta Houston, you can play at my place =P

Gorgannan1 votes

Play a game in Starbucks.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

Play a game in Starbucks.

Been there, done that. Don't go when its crowded. Lol, dem ping spikes op. Sometimes you get a crowd of other LoL players as spectators though. I got mad cheers for a quadra kill, so that was pretty cool.

Loken Stoneheart9 votes

Its okay, they're planning on punishing plat+ players more. Their current plan (the one sent out in surveys) is to allow mulligans for promos on gold- players. If you reach promos, lose, and then reach them again, you start with a free win. Plat+ won't get this.

Linna Excel7 votes

I can see elo decay for challengers and maybe master level players. Basically the people good enough to start sniffing the LCS I can see being forced to compete. For challengers I don't want to see someone get to the top 50 and then not play all season while taking that slot. For masters, I could see wanting them to keep at the top of their game and encourage them to make a push for the top 100.

That said, below that elo decay probably shouldn't be there.

I've heard wait times at the higher ranks are awful but I don't think this is the answer to that because people only have to play one game a month. As for elo-boosting, why encourage people who suck to buy it once a month?

jaymc11303 votes

And you got upvoted.

+1.

Brilliant post HD, as always good sir.

Pew Pew Lasers3 votes

28 days to decay? That seems more than reasonable. If you're not a frequent player do you really deserve higher rewards?

YossarianSensei3 votes

Because there's supposed to be a certain distribution of players across the ranks

Jesus Canaj 4202 votes

I agree mostly with the lack of mmr decay. Not sure how I feel about elo decay, but mmr should definitely follow suit at least.

Fadedpf1 votes

I think riot is more worried about boosters and such. I want my gold rewards though :c. I hate ranked....

HateDaddy5 votes

{quoted}

I think riot is more worried about boosters and such. I want my gold rewards though :c. I hate ranked....

I want you to keep your rewards, too. I just don't see why I'm forced to play every 28 days just to keep a different border. It comes off as bitter and I assure you I'm not, I don't want people losing any form of rewards they've obtained period. For me, it doesn't take a lot of effort to get diamond. But for someone who might've spent 800 games climbing from gold might tell you differently and it's even more frustrating to those players.

Sona Ping1 votes

Because the purpose and goals of Ranked Decay has nothing to do with shiny pixel borders?

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ankPIGo6,comment-id=000400000002,timestamp=2015-07-28T00:58:18.565+0000)

Because the purpose and goals of Ranked Decay has nothing to do with shiny pixel borders?

Then why does gold, silver and bronze not have decay with that logic.

Sona Ping2 votes

{quoted}

Then why does gold, silver and bronze not have decay with that logic.

Because if you aren't supposed to be "resting on your laurels", there's no problem, because BS&G have not the laurels to rest on.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

It's so the kiddies that get boosted all the way to diamond don't actually get to keep their diamond border when they have to compete with diamond level players while they have silver mechanics.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ankPIGo6,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-07-28T05:36:59.783+0000)

It's so the kiddies that get boosted all the way to diamond don't actually get to keep their diamond border when they have to compete with diamond level players while they have silver mechanics.

I addressed that in the OP lol

Demonsolder211 votes

{quoted}

I addressed that in the OP lol

Lmao uses a smurf to keep the thread going. lmao.

manbearswine2 votes

{quoted}

I addressed that in the OP lol

Thing is if you want to get boosted you might as well do it near the end of the season,on top of that you can just afk jungle(to keep your score from looking too bad),or afk heal with taric/soraka,you will still likely lose,but your score won't be too bad,and you just need to do that once a month,so you will still maintain diamond 5 by the end of the season.

ChoGathsSon2 votes

{quoted}

Thing is if you want to get boosted you might as well do it near the end of the season,on top of that you can just afk jungle(to keep your score from looking too bad),or afk heal with taric/soraka,you will still likely lose,but your score won't be too bad,and you just need to do that once a month,so you will still maintain diamond 5 by the end of the season.

Then you're literally making a point against elo decay with this logic

Riot just needs a better anti boost system, which they are currently working on. And once again, half of your statement was addressed in the OP lol.

manbearswine2 votes

{quoted}

Then you're literally making a point against elo decay with this logic

...Well,yes,that was what I was going for.

Riot just needs a better anti boost system, which they are currently working on. And once again, half of your statement was addressed in the OP lol.

Honestly I think you are missing the point,point of decay is plain greed,riot just wants to encourage their playerbase to keep playing,no matter how god awful their balance team is.

Dayblazer1 votes

they should have mmr decay if they have LP decay. Makes no sense not to.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

they should have mmr decay if they have LP decay. Makes no sense not to.

This was how it was initially and was GREATLY disliked if I'm not mistaken. I was never high enough ELO in seasons 1 and 2 for it to matter to me, so no personal reference point, but IIRC that's how it was. Could be wrong. If any knows specifically drop some knowledge on us.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well obviously... when it was an MMR only system and it had decay... obviously MMR did decay...

jaymc11301 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ankPIGo6,comment-id=001700000000,timestamp=2015-07-29T01:34:15.841+0000)

Well obviously... when it was an MMR only system and it had decay... obviously MMR did decay...

Yeah, I assumed this as well, but was never high enough in ELO in season's 1 and 2 to be sure if I was correct in that assumption.

jaymc11301 votes

Just a bump for the late night board crowd, I don't have anything to add at the moment.

jaymc11301 votes

To the top of the page!

jaymc11301 votes

I think we could all do with some more discussion on this topic. To the top of the page!

UltraSceptile1 votes

10/10; Even though I'm never going to make it past gold but this makes perfect sense for those that have.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

10/10; Even though I'm never going to make it past gold but this makes perfect sense for those that have.

Much of this thread makes a great deal of sense and we have heard from riot there will be some changes happening for next season in regards to many of our concerns.

UltraSceptile1 votes

{quoted}

Much of this thread makes a great deal of sense and we have heard from riot there will be some changes happening for next season in regards to many of our concerns.

Well that's good to hear, as long as those changes are good changes. But good to know Riot is at least listening to community concerns.

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