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The new Cassiopeia concept fits Veigar more than her.

Kowe The Ewok··36 votes·3,625 views

Veigar is a single target burst mage who transfers into a DPS mage once he gathered enough stacks for his Q to deal meaningful damage (and build Lichbane).

Cassiopeia is (was) an AoE DoT mage with a SINGLE single-target-DPS ability, which also required another ability to set it up.

Veigar had a powercurve which left him with a bad earlygame, yet an insane lategame.

Cassiopeia had a very balanced powercurve. Her viability didn't change much from 1 to 18. While other mages spiked at certain points (E.g. Syndra with ult and maxed Q), her power remained constant.

  • Her damage was very dependant on her and her opponents skill to dodge and land abilities.

Veigar lost a lot of power with the rise of AD casters which significantly decrease the impact of his ultimate.

Cassiopeia also suffered from the rise ob high mobility / range champions, yet didn't require much change to be viable. In fact simply undoing the Patch v1.0.0.134 nerfs to her would most likely have made her viable again. Note: That these nerfs were applied due to WotA, Revolver and Haunting Guise used to stack and amplify each other to hilarious levels at that point of time. A synergy which does not exist anymore, thus rendering the nerfs which resulted out of it inappropriate

In my eyes the rework should be reverted. Riot should go back to the PBE with their Cassiopeia and continue experimenting there.

As for Stashu, I think he's the right one to rework / rebalance Veigar. But I hope that somebody else will take a look at Cassiopeia.

64 Comments

Bloodpaly24 votes

tl;dr OP doesn't play Veigar.

At a thousand AP, you aren't getting more than like 300 dps (before accounting for enemy MR) from his Q, lichbane gives some, but you are probably gimping your build for it.

Veigar late game gets to either UBER burst off DFG + EWRQ or burst someone with EWRQ and someone else with DFGEWQ after CDs. And then have a consistent burst every ~12 sec with EWQ combos. But he can't maintain a good dps even with lichbane and massive AP, and he doesn't have the sustain or tankiness or mobility or range (on Q) to keep up consistent dps in a fight.

Also Veigar's powercurve places him incredibly powerful immediately after DFG. Where he can then hopefully get some kills off his lane opponent or roam for them, and then snowball into late game. If you don't see a powerspike till lategame it is because you worry too much about Q farming and are gimping your team midgame.

Sammystorm3 votes

tl;dr OP doesn't play Veigar.

At a thousand AP, you aren't getting more than like 300 dps (before accounting for enemy MR) from his Q, lichbane gives some, but you are probably gimping your build for it.

Veigar late game gets to either UBER burst off DFG + EWRQ or burst someone with EWRQ and someone else with DFGEWQ after CDs. And then have a consistent burst every ~12 sec with EWQ combos. But he can't maintain a good dps even with lichbane and massive AP, and he doesn't have the sustain or tankiness or mobility or range (on Q) to keep up consistent dps in a fight.

Also Veigar's powercurve places him incredibly powerful immediately after DFG. Where he can then hopefully get some kills off his lane opponent or roam for them, and then snowball into late game. If you don't see a powerspike till lategame it is because you worry too much about Q farming and are gimping your team midgame.

Plus lichbane is the definition of a burst item. It isn't their for dps.

Narasimha21 votes

Veigar... never becomes a DPS mage. Are you crazy? If anything, he becomes THE burst mage, but thats it. Granted, the fact that you apparently build Lichbane on him really speaks for itself...

Gorzke1 votes

Well, he has a lot of burst, but he becomes a really huge DPS treat once you have enoguht stacks. He 1 shoots the enemy ADC (Or the Tank, whatever) but after 40% CDR and 1000+AP his Q has very shot cooldown and deals a really high damage. So he has a lot of DPS, althought that is hidden by his op burst.

Sammystorm9 votes

Well, he has a lot of burst, but he becomes a really huge DPS treat once you have enoguht stacks. He 1 shoots the enemy ADC (Or the Tank, whatever) but after 40% CDR and 1000+AP his Q has very shot cooldown and deals a really high damage. So he has a lot of DPS, althought that is hidden by his op burst.

He does like 3000 damage every 12 seconds. that is shit damage per second but amazing burst.

It comes out to like 300 damage a second if he could do it every second which is garbage compared to most.

A dps mage would be old cas, anivia, swain, etc. Not viegar

Gorzke2 votes

He does (260 + 600) / (4x0.60) + (95.5x0.75 + 500)/1.5 + (320 + 1000) / (10 x .60) = 358 + 383 + 220 = 961 DPS to single target Baleful strike + Lich Bane + Dark Matter

In mi honest opinion, this is not a bad DPS. Im not saying he is a DPS mage, im saying he becomes a DPS treat (He deals sustained damage) once he has enought AP (in this case 1000).

Im sorry if my numbers dont coincide with yours, but you can see where mine comes from.

EDDIT: Added Anivia's damage per second (40% CDR, 700 AP)

(360 + 700)/(8x0.6) + (350+700)/(5x0.6) + (160 + 175) = 220 + 350 + 335 = 905

Veigar deals MORE DPS than Anivia without Lich Bane. So.... Happy Harrowing End for everyone!

Narasimha3 votes

Do remember that Anivia does AOE consistent damage. She doesn't stop with one tick of her ult. Assuming 3 seconds as an average. Thats an extra 670 damage, or 1575 damage in total. And thats to ONE person. Since Veigar spells are all on CD, he gets no extra damage in those 2 seconds.

So yeah, no, wrong again, Happy Harrowing.

Gorzke1 votes

You don know how os DPS calculated right? Its the Damage/Cooldown, that's why anivia ultimate is just 1 tick. Is that damage per second. We can then consider burst and damage each second of the rotation, where veigar would still win (Bigger burst, more spoke damage, higher DPS overall) .

That's a really lack of understanding the concept of DPS...

Narasimha4 votes

You... can't possible be this stupid. Am I being trolled? DPS is literally Damage Per Second. It is calculated as the total damage than can be outputted in that second. Veigar is not a dps champion because all his spells are instant damage, and he has no damage outside of his spells. Anivia, on the other hand, has a persistent effect ult. It will continue to damage so long as she isn't stunned or oom. Here, I'll prove it with numbers. I'll assume 1000 AP for veigar, and 700 ap for anivia. I'll also assume 20% CDR for both. Damage done will only be counted from spells, and will assume all spells land, and will assume all spells are cast immediately when off cooldown.

Seconds: 0-1 / 1-2 / 2-3 / 3-4 / 4-5 / 5-6 / 6-7 / 7-8 / 8-9 / 9-10 Veigar Damage: 3880 / 0 / 0 / 860 / 0 / 0 / 860 / 1320 / 0 / 860 = 7780 damage in 10 seconds Anivia Damage: 2435 / 335 / 335 / 1385 / 335 / 335 / 1395 / 1385 / 335 / 335 = 8610 damage in 10 seconds.

Gorzke2 votes

I'd request a job as politician if I were you. I was discussing numbers in a certain situation (40% CDR and Lich Bane) and you start insulting people when you tell numbers in another situation (20% CDR and NO Lich Bane) .

I can't understand why are upvotes so important in a forum so you prefer to lie to have them instead of discussing in a real way

Veigar Damage INITIAL SITUATION (40& CDR; 1000 AP) during 10 seconds, single target 6 Lich Bane procs , 4 Baleful Strikes, 2 Dark Matter 3450 + 3440 + 2640 = 9530 RELIABLE as Veigar casts 6 spells in the 10 sec window, so he can adjust the rotation to proc the 6 lich banes

Anivia Damage Initial Situation (40% CDR, 700AP) during 10 seconds, single target 2 Flash Frost, 4 Flashbite , 10 procs of Glacial Storm 2120 + 4200 + 3350 = 9670 All Flashbite are against frosted champions

In the 10 sec. window, Anivia deals 14 DPS more than Veigar against single target (NOT counting veigar ult). The window is arbitrary, so we could choose another one where Veigar would win (8 sec, 13 sec, etc) all without counting his ultimate, in which in that case veigar would deal more DPS than Anivia in any comparable window.

Narasimha2 votes
  1. You don't request jobs, you apply for them.
  2. I was presenting a REALISTIC situation. As in, a REGULAR veigar setup. Veigar's usual build is item 3020, item 3089, item 3157 , item 3128, item 3135, item 3007
    I'd be pretty happy if you could show me where you're magically getting 30% more cdr from. Hell, I was being generous giving him 20% cdr.
  3. Its funny how only the people downvoted complain about how upvoting isn't important. Upvoting simply shows who people see as more persuasive/credible/likeable/etc.
  4. Adding his ultimate doesn't give him DPS, it gives him more burst in the short run. Veigar and Anivia's DPS is not comparable at all, because Anivia wins hands-down every single time. Seriously, though, you're a damn good troll, I applaud your efforts.
Kowe The Ewok2 votes
  1. You don't request jobs, you apply for them.
  2. I was presenting a REALISTIC situation. As in, a REGULAR veigar setup. Veigar's usual build is item 3020, item 3089, item 3157 , item 3128, item 3135, item 3007
    I'd be pretty happy if you could show me where you're magically getting 30% more cdr from. Hell, I was being generous giving him 20% cdr.
  3. Its funny how only the people downvoted complain about how upvoting isn't important. Upvoting simply shows who people see as more persuasive/credible/likeable/etc.
  4. Adding his ultimate doesn't give him DPS, it gives him more burst in the short run. Veigar and Anivia's DPS is not comparable at all, because Anivia wins hands-down every single time. Seriously, though, you're a damn good troll, I applaud your efforts.

Why Archangels? YOu sure don't maximize your damage with it... You never have such mana problems.... Zhonyas also depends on the team combination....

Narasimha1 votes
  1. Veigar's spells aren't exactly cheap. Archangels lets him maximize his time before returning to base by giving him more rotations.
  2. Seraph's embrace grants more AP than any other item. As far as Veigar is concerned, anyway.
  3. Zhonyas is not situational, its core. Veigar is ultra squishy. If his stun is on CD, he is an open target. He needs the armor and the active to survive.
Gorzke1 votes

  1. Politics is a job you can request a job for. You don't need any application.

  2. Blue Buff. Elixir, 5% Masteries, 5% Tunes. I didn't even change your build. Although I'd change Boots for liche. Boots are overrated

  3. I'm not complaining about up votes or down votes. I'm complaining about you lying

4.DPS == Sustained Damage. So even 1 DMG each 100 sec counts towards your final DPS, in this case 0.01. So ult counts

Narasimha3 votes

What Sammy said, in addition to one more important thing. DPS is Damage Per Second, which means you need to survive long enough for it to pay off. Veigar instadeletes one target, but then crumbles like wet paper right afterwards.

Gorzke1 votes

That can be said about all DPS and Burst mages! Numbers added on Sammys post.

A Superb Villain9 votes

Yes, it does fit Veigar more than Cassiopeia. That being said, I do not think any of the work done for her should be applied to Veigar; he is fine as is.

yellowbricks9 votes

I don't think any of the work done to Cass should be applied to anyone, it's utter shit, and doesn't make for fun gameplay at all. Lore should not dictate the kit, especially not if the lore will "curse" the champ into being a boring sack of shit for 30 minutes until they unlock their power hidden behind arbitrary stack gates.

IceKingChernobog7 votes

veigar isnt a dps mage , and why would you wanna put him through a horrible rework like that. No one should have a rework as shitty as cassiopeia's

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

veigar isnt a dps mage , and why would you wanna put him through a horrible rework like that. No one should have a rework as shitty as cassiopeia's

He is a burst mage who turns into a DPS mage once you get enough stacks... He burst an enemy and a good farmed Q combiend with Lichabane allows him to DPS way better than most mages post 45 minutes.

Junkο5 votes

i mained Veigar for over a year now and i have no idea why you would buy Lich Bane on him, you get in range, deal that 300 dmg and then get killed immediatly because you are spuishy

Yoella6 votes

Don't you dare label my lovable little midget of doom a DPS mage!

Junkο5 votes

(and build Lichbane).

well i'm gonna go ahead and hang myself now

jerradwolf4 votes

you guys are crazy. she's fun just different play style.

Orbv12 votes

Her last playstyle was fun. Don't give me an Xbox 1 controller if I'm busy enjoying my Super Nintendo.

yellowbricks8 votes

you guys are crazy. she's fun just different play style.

By the amount of downvotes, it looks like you're the crazy one. How can you even like having your power locked behind stacks? It's not even infinite like Veigar, it's just pre-determined break points and then you max out and you can finally start contributing to the team right before the nexus blows up.

jerradwolf1 votes

you guys are crazy. she's fun just different play style.

By the amount of downvotes, it looks like you're the crazy one. How can you even like having your power locked behind stacks? It's not even infinite like Veigar, it's just pre-determined break points and then you max out and you can finally start contributing to the team right before the nexus blows up.

i don't think her real power is locked behind stacks. her power is all in leveling up her "e" first and just quick poking and out trading people. people are crazy and they cry about so much. she is fun if you play her in the new way she is meant to be played. i don't know why she has to be the "teemo of mages" with her poison. i don't really find that all too fun or rewarding tbh.

yellowbricks4 votes

you guys are crazy. she's fun just different play style.

By the amount of downvotes, it looks like you're the crazy one. How can you even like having your power locked behind stacks? It's not even infinite like Veigar, it's just pre-determined break points and then you max out and you can finally start contributing to the team right before the nexus blows up.

i don't think her real power is locked behind stacks. her power is all in leveling up her "e" first and just quick poking and out trading people. people are crazy and they cry about so much. she is fun if you play her in the new way she is meant to be played. i don't know why she has to be the "teemo of mages" with her poison. i don't really find that all too fun or rewarding tbh.

Her ratios have been slashed to compensate for the ridiculous ball of stats passive that's been thrust upon her, if that's not locking power, then I don't know what is. The thing about reworks is they should stay faithful to the original. Old Cass was not gated by stacks, she had a good play style, then Stashu worked with the lore team to make the most boring stack passive ever. Did you really buy this whole ascension thing Stashu spewed at us in the rework thread? Because I don't, I feel about as effective late game as I did before, the only difference is I had to work my ass off to get 400 stacks to actually do that, whereas Yasou just gets his double crit chance off the bat, as do most other ball of stats passive champs.

Also some of us do find poisoning enemies to be rewarding, there are many other champs you can play that aren't "the teemo of mages", but us former Cass mains don't have another champ to turn to for this play style. So have fun with your watered down stack mage, god forbid there's actual different ways to play a champ, nope, riot's gotta pigeonhole every champ into exactly one play style.

Alleo1 votes

You could just play teemoTeemo

Orbv5 votes

Her optimal power has always been in leveling up E first. But she has NEVER been about trading people. They added spell vamp to her just so that they could make her a trading champ. But you can't trade for 36 minutes. You can't push, you can't gank, you can't win a lane. You can't choose Cassiopeia as a first pick in ranked, you just can't. Her counters are far more severe now.

Not everybody finds DoT Cass fun, HOWEVER, not everyone finds spam Cass fun either. It's not fair that players like you get to enjoy the change that causes players like myself to not have any other option.

chumbler3 votes

Nobody should be forced to have that passive.

Sonneyjim2 votes

I get that everyone hates change. As do I. If they change Cass now that I love to play her I will probably be pissed too. That being said, a lot of people make the statement about Cass being fine and people just suck with her. I think after the latest change people haven't realized how ham you need to play her in the beginning to get your stacks rolling. No one is ever prepared for a Christmas ham Cass at lvl 3, which is why I more often than not land an early kill with her. Don't get me wrong, I am no where near pro, but man she can jack the other team up and you can hyper carry with her when you ham her right. Just my opinion....then again opinions are like a$$ holes... We all got one that stinks....Cassiopeia

And my apologies for going off thread.

Gorsz2 votes

What the fuck are you even talking about? They gutted the shit out of her early game, and forces you to waste mana and cooldowns poisoning minions to build some stupid ass stacks.

"everyone hates change" lets just gut the shit out of your main champions because of Riots inability to deal with the hackers in this game and then say well you know "people hate change".

Sonneyjim1 votes

apparently you just are not very good ad adapting.....figure it out. quit your pissing and moaning, adapt and overcome....lol...bunch o babies.

The Queen Viper2 votes

You simply cannot adapt if the champion is trash, so to speak... just look at Urgot for example. No matter how good of a player you would be, you simply cannot overcome things like bad or weak champion design/stats, that are out of your control.

When it comes to Cass, there are not many ways to play or build her currently, so it's not exactly hard to play her. However she's quite underwhelming and underpowered... those are the things that are holding her players back, and which is why we are here today discussing about it.

Give Faker Urgot and even he couldn't do much or perform well, due to the limiting factor that is a bad / underpowered champion. Saying things like "adapt" and "overcome"... pfff, it's not that simple bro.

Sonneyjim1 votes

It is that simple. Adapt to how she has to be played or shut up. Simple. There are ways to make every champ shine. Just giving up and then hitting a forum to complain about how hard it is is exactly so many champs get fucked the way they do... Cause of loud mouthed pricks that think the game revolves around them. Let's not make this game faulter like WOW, yea I said that, due to all the cry babies. Aaaaaaand done. This is exactly the reason I hate forums. Find me in the rift. Peace.

yellowbricks1 votes

It is that simple. Adapt to how she has to be played or shut up. Simple. There are ways to make every champ shine. Just giving up and then hitting a forum to complain about how hard it is is exactly so many champs get fucked the way they do... Cause of loud mouthed pricks that think the game revolves around them. Let's not make this game faulter like WOW, yea I said that, due to all the cry babies. Aaaaaaand done. This is exactly the reason I hate forums. Find me in the rift. Peace.

I hope stashu bends your favorite champ over a barrel and makes them a shadow of their former self. Just adapt lel >:)

The Queen Viper1 votes

It is that simple. Adapt to how she has to be played or shut up. Simple.

I told you already, playing Cass for example is not that hard... the problem here is, that Cass can and most likely will perform sub-bar even if you would play her well, due to the fact that she's underpowered and a weak champion. Even Faker played Cass really badly, when the first changes hit the live servers.

There are ways to make every champ shine.

Depends, even though that's not quite true... in your Silver 5 land and in normal games, sure, you can play all the champs and do just fine. However when it comes to high elo games and professional games, no, just no. Do you ever wonder why the champ pool is very limited when it comes to LCS and different events like Worlds for example? Why we never see all the champs played there and only a handful? Unfortunately, not every champ is competitively viable. You can't make every champ shine since some get overshadowed by other champs, who do the same job better.

Just giving up and then hitting a forum to complain about how hard it is is exactly so many champs get fucked the way they do... Cause of loud mouthed pricks that think the game revolves around them. Let's not make this game faulter like WOW, yea I said that, due to all the cry babies. Aaaaaaand done. This is exactly the reason I hate forums. Find me in the rift. Peace.

It's just better that people like you don't come to the forums, so please, do us all a favor and stay in the Rift next time.

Sonneyjim1 votes

You silly guys crack me up. Sure, let's go on about how the championships only use a select handful. Lmao, we aren't talking about the championships. We aren't even talking about high elo like plat and diamond. We are talking about Cass as a champion and the general use of her in the game. High ranked, I cannot contest that or agree, I'm not in the higher elo bracket. Championships......lul, stfu and go back under the rock you crawled out from under. The general use of Cass, fantastically fun. 1100 ap late game makes for some endearing "ham" moments. Again, quit complaining, and adapt. If your a diamond or a plat, well you are better than I so shut up for this doesn't even apply to you. For everyone else.....get a grip. Lolololololol its a game!

The Queen Viper2 votes

We are talking about Cass as a champion and the general use of her in the game.

Well currently she's only viable in BOT and Normal games... maybe in low elo ranked games too. Otherwise, nope, not really viable unless you already have ridiculous amount of games with her so you know exactly what you are doing. However even if you would know, the performance that Cass can output is still only sub-bar when compared to other similar champions.

The general use of Cass, fantastically fun. 1100 ap late game makes for some endearing "ham" moments.

Depends. If your lane opponent doesn't know what they are doing and just lets you do whatever (like in Normal games), sure Cass might be fun. Like i told you in another post, you don't have such luxury in Ranked games. For most people, playing that "stack-muh-passive" mini-game just isn't really fun... and if they would find it fun, then it would be much more efficient to play Veigar or Nasus instead, since they would actually have an impact to the game unlike Cass now. Also you cannot assume that you can just do nothing for the first 20 minutes of the game and let your team carry you into the late game where you can finally get that over 1000 AP fantasy... it's not how this game usually works. Not to mention, many people want to be relevant and do stuff waaaay before the game even hits late.

Sonneyjim1 votes

Correct. I don't just sit and wait. I actively approach it as a target to get to without having a horribly slow laning phase. I will defer to your comment about ranked as since the season was all but over , I am waiting till next season to rank her. Your opinion is the only that has been rational, I will take what you say into account.

The Queen Viper2 votes

Well to be fair, me, King Cobra, AsheIsElite and few others most likely are the group that has the most Cass games overall to this day. However you can take my words with a grain of salt, since I am biased when it comes to Cass and I personally dislike the current changes to her... I would say though, that when it comes to bias, every Cass player is and so is my friend King Cobra.

Even when King says that Cass is really not in that bad of a spot... meh, maybe, however people have to remember that we have many years and many thousand games worth of experience with Cass. All the design flaws the current Cass has, we can more or less compensate with the experience and skill we have. That being said, personally I just don't consider Cass being a good spot overall... sure, it can be for us, but for others? No, I don't consider it reasonable that people should have to spend years, thousands of games and exclusively dedicate themselves to Cass, so that they can potentially overcome the inherit flaws of her design.

Sonneyjim1 votes

Again, a rational and methodical reply. Thank you for your input. I personally dig Cass right now, I don't have the thousands of games you do so I cannot agree or disagree about her inequities at the present time. What I can say is that the way she is now fits how I play and it allows me to monopolize on everyone's opinion that she is weak. Thanks again for the honest reply.

Gorsz1 votes

So anyone who says Cass is bad is a baby, and anyone who says Cass is fine is rational.

What rank are you even?

LMAO unranked. Your opinion means nothing.

Sonneyjim1 votes

Amazing how this just continues. Ok....Gorsz. Let me explain. If you posit an explanation in a rational manner as opposed to sounding like a punk btch, then either way, your opinion would be rational. If you act like a baby about it when someone disagrees or simply states an opinion....then you are a baby, and a sad one at that, that you cant even handle someone else's opinion to not act like a child with your reply. Unranked....oh that's right....you have to hold a theoretical rank prior to being able to formulate an opinion about a game. oops.....mah bad....lmao....amazing how many people play this game that think that they are the "leet" the only one that replied in a manner suggestive of a methodical player was Caedíte eos. So unless you actually have something constructive or analytical to add, I would close your insipid mouth.....brah. The sum of what I said was that if you refuse to try and figure out a way to adapt to a champ that was changed in a way that you don't like and you just come on here to btch and complain, your a baby. My opinion was that you need to adapt. Again, its my opinion. Ya don't have to agree, though I would expect you to read what I wrote prior to formulating the incorrect idea about what I wrote. All that was said and 1 person actually read what I wrote and replied in a cognitive manner relating that even some of his pals agree that she is fine but that he personally does not. His opinion is the only on here that actually holds any water. I don't have 1k games with her so I can only go off of what I do know.....that is that I monopolize on the fact that people I play against think she is weak. And its fun to wreak havoc on them. Now.....crawl back under what ever heap you came from.

Gorsz1 votes

"apparently you just are not very good ad adapting.....figure it out. quit your pissing and moaning, adapt and overcome....lol...bunch o babies."

You think you deserve any type of respect after replying like that?

You have the nerve to call people babies, "crawl under heaps" or what not and be hypocrite ? "When someone disagrees with you dont have to act like a baby" um... look at your very first response. Now THAT is acting like a baby.

Also once again you're new/bad at this game. Stop talking about champions as if you know them.

Sonneyjim1 votes

"What the fuck are you even talking about? They gutted the shit out of her early game, and forces you to waste mana and cooldowns poisoning minions to build some stupid ass stacks.

"everyone hates change" lets just gut the shit out of your main champions because of Riots inability to deal with the hackers in this game and then say well you know "people hate change".

Hey look, I can copy and paste too. The inevitability of this conversation actually going anywhere is pretty sparse. Oh that's right.....I have to play ranked and get ranked to have an opinion about a game that I've been playing for a couple years now. That is one of the most ridiculous comments you can make. "Hey you, you don't know. I do, but you don't, so shut up" I love that type of thinking, shows how truly narrow minded and horribly Neanderthal your brain is. Yea I just said that. Here is what actually gets me...they only thing you copy and paste is the response I had to your moronic comment. But if you truly wanted to prove hypocrisy in my comments or point of view, then use the little scrolling feature on your mouse....yup that one...and go to my comments back to my douche bag replies (for these ones I apologize for, my bad Caedíte eos) that I made to Caedíte eos, when he was actually just stating an opinion without commenting on the dick weed crap I was writing back to him. The fact that you want to pin me down on the wasted, meaningless, warranted, comments that really were meant to troll you, proves one of two things. 1) what I mentioned earlier about punk a$$ players thinking this game revolves around them are the reason most games get fucked up, applies to you...or 2) You of everyone on here....are the most susceptible to getting trolled. Should you have any issue with what I have stated on here, find me in the rift and we'll have a go, Sonneyjim is the name in the rift in NA as well. See ya soon.....Douche.

Bloodpaly2 votes

Stahp using dark matter in dps calculations dear lord.

If you do, at least pretend its cd is the same as his stuns.

And Veigar doesn't have room for LB in his build anyway and you are comparing Veigar with LB to Anivia without LB, assuming Veigar lands a dark matter every time it's off CD and ignoring how much more of Anivia's damage is AoE.

yellowbricks2 votes

If you want good opinions why Cass sucks, go to the actual cass rework thread where people are posting dissertations left and right. Most normal people have actual stuff they gotta do and can't get away with writing War and Peace over a video game.

Succinct reply: Cass has been destroyed, passive is unfun, and her kit is dragged down because it's just a huge ball of stats locked behind a boring stack system.

Sonneyjim1 votes

Didn't think about the Cass re-work thread. Thanks for the info.

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119
votes
Why did you gut junglers?
Gameplay132 comments
102
votes
Be fair Riot. Give Lissandra the same mana regen you gave all casters.
Gameplay41 comments
99
votes
Riot. Trailblazer is NOT the problem.
Gameplay74 comments
95
votes
ADC vs DPS Mages
Gameplay148 comments
91
votes