why has riot still not looked at kalista for a nerf yet?

The Bard Dog·Mar 16, 2015·45 votes·2,799 views

i get that she's high skillcap and dependent on a support, but jesus christ.

she's impossible for supports to itemize against, negates any and all skill shots, has a 10% health magic damage passive that synergizes with every meta support perfectly, has an unlimited stacking e that helps in securing objectives and chunking someone for 15% of their health, and has an ult that saves people from cc, bad decisions, and pretty much everything.

i don't care if her winrate is low, or if she's high skillcap. its only a matter of time before a lot of people master her, abuse her, and then make every single game for everyone toxic ahem

its like they made this champion FOR runaan's also. it basically gives her vayne's w with 3+spears on anyone and everyone hit

59 Comments

MrPerson10Mar 16, 201516 votes

Why don't you read patch notes?

She was already nerfed with her AA animation being slowed down to diddly shit.

Suck at last hitting with her, you have to rend - that pushes the wave. Guess what's not always favorable? Pushing the wave.

The Bard DogMar 16, 201516 votes

{quoted}

Why don't you read patch notes?

She was already nerfed with her AA animation being slowed down to diddly shit.

Suck at last hitting with her, you have to rend - that pushes the wave. Guess what's not always favorable? Pushing the wave.

lol rend doesn't push the wave unless you let it. im talking about the % health magic damage passive. supports can safely last hit for her with it.

and wow slowed her ANIMATION. i bet that will stop her from becoming a terror with runaan's, bork, serkers, shiv and IE. at least other full build adcs can still be beat. kalista can get away from damn near EVERYTHING with her hops.

MrPerson10Mar 16, 201522 votes

Clearly you don't understand how important the animation is since she's the only champ in the game that cannot cancel theirs.

The longer her animation, the longer it takes for her to hop. The longer it takes for her to hop, the harder it is to kite.

Kalista is a lot more easily locked down now than she was pre-nerf.

The Bard DogMar 16, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Clearly you don't understand how important the animation is since she's the only champ in the game that cannot cancel theirs.

The longer her animation, the longer it takes for her to hop. The longer it takes for her to hop, the harder it is to kite.

Kalista is a lot more easily locked down now than she was pre-nerf.

still doesn't matter when she has 1.7 attack speed. still more mobility than ulted yi, e spam udyr, w shyvana, leblanc, fizz, yasuo, lucian, graves, and pretty much everyone else in the game barring lee sin.

MrPerson10Mar 16, 201510 votes

She cannot out-kite a full build Udyr or Warwick , far from more mobile than Leblanc and Lucian in terms of kiting ability.

Her upside to her passive is that you shouldn't be getting hit by skillshots. However she lacks the ability to do anything against an udyr with half a clue, particularly in the midgame.

The Bard DogMar 16, 201510 votes

{quoted}

She cannot out-kite a full build or , far from more mobile than and .

item 3085 item 3087 item 3153 item 3006 item 3031 item 3072 add that to the slow on her e, the extra jump off of her q, and she's not getting caught by anyone except warwick. and only because warwick has a point and click long range suppress. and not more mobile than lucian? is that a joke? all lucian has is one dash that has a cd. kalista has hops that scale with boot tier and are only limited by how low kalista's attack speed is.

MrPerson10Mar 16, 20155 votes

Look at Lucian's W again. W + R alone outkites Kalista.

Her Rend has a 12 second CD. 12. Seconds. That's an awful long time. W can only be deployed one at a time, she's still succeptible to 3 man tower dives from the tribrush behind her, something that's rarely warded early on and given that her early waveclear can be quite half-assed without using Rend, that wave can be pushed easily.

TauNoob1Mar 16, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Look at Lucian's W again. W + R alone outkites Kalista.

Her Rend has a 12 second CD. 12. Seconds. That's an awful long time. W can only be deployed one at a time, she's still succeptible to 3 man tower dives from the tribrush behind her, something that's rarely warded early on and given that her early waveclear can be quite half-assed without using Rend, that wave can be pushed easily.

If you're playing Kalista and not resetting your Rend there's something very wrong.

NarasimhaMar 16, 20158 votes

I would actually love that build. An ADC that doesn't build armor pen? That's like a wet dream. Just build Randuin's and Thornmail and just laugh at her.

ApplyForAGrantMar 16, 20153 votes

Thank you! So many people who put up "nerf X champions" lack coherent thinking but no one is there to show the whole picture.

JunkοMar 16, 20151 votes

Or you know, Udyr/WW will buy a item 3143 item 3110 and 35% of her mobility is gone

SpecterVonBarenMar 16, 20151 votes

If WW doesn't have his ult or Frozen Mallet, how the hell does he catch Kalista?

Imperial JapanMar 16, 20151 votes

1.get frozen mallet 2. Ult is on short cool down. Should be able to shut her out every team fight

Auz the RipperMar 16, 20151 votes

How does frozen mallet help? It doesn't slow her attack speed

Imperial JapanMar 16, 20151 votes

Slows her in general and I'm sorry, I just went along with it. Anyways I believe he meant frozen heart

Auz the RipperMar 16, 20151 votes

Fair enough

Imperial JapanMar 17, 20151 votes

;)

BiffoloMar 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

lol rend doesn't push the wave unless you let it. im talking about the % health magic damage passive. supports can safely last hit for her with it.

and wow slowed her ANIMATION. i bet that will stop her from becoming a terror with runaan's, bork, serkers, shiv and IE. at least other full build adcs can still be beat. kalista can get away from damn near EVERYTHING with her hops.

Until you just bring a point and click cc. Assault and battery all day.

AuryielMar 16, 20155 votes

Riot : We like it when everyone has a way to deal with everyone releases Kalista Riot : We like it when a Kalista forces you to bring a very specific subset of champions into the game to counter her. P.S. We are actively reducing the number of champions that are in this category.

JunkοMar 16, 20151 votes

Doesn't Heimerdinger already do that? And ranged top laners also do that. Oh and Blitz and Thresh pretty much force you to pick the other or Janna/Morgana.

AuryielMar 16, 20151 votes

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the reason why people complain about those things is.....

The same reason people complain about Kalista? Maybe?

BiffoloMar 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Riot : We like it when everyone has a way to deal with everyone releases Kalista Riot : We like it when a Kalista forces you to bring a very specific subset of champions into the game to counter her. P.S. We are actively reducing the number of champions that are in this category.

What does it matter what they said? Just adapt to whatever is needed in order to beat her. It dosen't matter what they SAID would happen, all that matters is what DOES happen

PhifeMar 16, 201511 votes

she really doesn't need a nerf.

The Bard DogMar 16, 201514 votes

{quoted}

she really doesn't need a nerf.

she really does. she has all of the makings to become BETTER than lucian pre nerf. all it takes is time.

IcyPepperMar 16, 201516 votes

Care to explain? OP was nice enough to go beyond just saying 'Kalista needs a nerf.'

PhifeMar 16, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Care to explain? OP was nice enough to go beyond just saying 'Kalista needs a nerf.'

buff randuins / frozen heart, add more attack speed slows to champions and then kalista suddenly isn't a problem at all.

IcyPepperMar 16, 20155 votes

That's... not a terrible idea.

The5lackerMar 16, 20156 votes

Other than that it's the nuclear option that hurts every ADC just as much as Kalista, meaning Kalista is still the dominant ADC and absolutely nothing has changed other than ADCs the world over are now entirely useless.

Drastically buffing AS slows to deal with Kalista is like lighting yourself on fire to burn your hair off because you didn't feel like going to the barber.

The5lackerMar 16, 20155 votes

The biggest problem with Kalista is that she is immune to the most common form of CC in the game: Slows. Her dashes completely invalidate them.

Easy solution: Have Kalista's dash distance scale with current MS and remove her ability to hop over walls.

Complete solution: Disable Kalista and put CertainT in time out until he can remember to take his anti-psychotics while working on champion design.

Remlap1223Mar 16, 20154 votes

#LC$PIGBLAY$

lojicianMar 16, 20153 votes

Riot doesn't care about players who like playing remotely kiteable champions. Ranged champions can sometimes outplay her so that's all that matters. Getting infinitely kited? Your fault for getting counterpicked. Try not picking a melee next time.

KeevalroyMar 16, 20153 votes

i get that she's high skillcap

Or you can build hurricane and remove all skill factor involved.

JunkοMar 16, 20151 votes

In exchange for no damage and risking rage quitting the game because you spend 3k gold on nothing as soon as the enemy tank buys a Frozen Heart or Randuins

Auz the RipperMar 16, 20151 votes

But you have to use Attack move! An entirely different command! It's so complex!

SpecterVonBarenMar 16, 20153 votes

I think it's because she's a certainlyT champion. The champs he designs have this horrendous balancing issue where they usually have this one thing that makes them completely infuriating to deal with (Darius's "If you pick a melee I win", Yasuo's double crit passive, and Kalista's passive) but if you removed these aspects to their kits or nerfed them enough to make up for them, you would completely destroy them as they are currently designed.

Athenes LuluMar 16, 20153 votes

She doesn't need nerfs, she needs a REWORK.

Still don't get how did that bad champ design gets passed.

JunkοMar 16, 20151 votes

Eh same way Veigar used to steal 40% of everyones AP, Jax had the ability to permanently dodge every attack in the game outside of spells (including nexus turrets) and TF having his ultimate as a basic skill on 40 second cooldown. Also Vayne Q with no mana cost because her mana regen was WAY too high, she was pretty much as strong as Kalista is now but less support dependent.

Most champs Riot designs are shitty until major nerfs or reworks really.

JC DarkOmenMar 16, 20153 votes

i... she... there was literally a nerf in 5.4

kcStrangerMar 16, 20152 votes

I'm with you. Although I think the complaints are somewhat justified, there seems to me to be an excess of QQing on this subject.

I think there's a psychological tendency to react more strongly to flashiness than to actual strength. Kalista's extreme kiting ability is visually very impressive.

KikirinoMar 16, 20152 votes

Because she isn't strong. She is just very VERY fucking annoying to play against.

CrettMar 16, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Because she isn't strong. She is just very VERY fucking annoying to play against.

Sion do you know how freaking mad i got fighting kalista UNDER MY TOWER as sion SHE WAS KILLING MY TOWER AND I COULD NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, I COULDN'T GET HER WITH FLASH OR Q OR E OR ANYTHING AND WHEN SHE FINISHED MY TOWER I HAD TO ULT TO RUN AWAY i HAD 6000 HP THAT GAME AND I COULDN'T TOUCH HER I'M CRYING LOL

JunkοMar 16, 20151 votes

Kill the minions so the turret aggros her? You have 3 AoE spells and a shield, and probably should have bought at least a Randuins as a tank.

CrettMar 16, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=akuEPwAI,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2015-03-16T19:42:17.072+0000)

Kill the minions so the turret aggros her? You have 3 AoE spells and a shield, and probably should have bought at least a Randuins as a tank.

she was attacking the turret on her own. it was at half health to begin with and she was pretty fed

JunkοMar 16, 20151 votes

That's one tanky ass Kalista

CrettMar 16, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=akuEPwAI,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-16T20:00:55.214+0000)

That's one tanky ass Kalista

i couldn't quite understand it myself

Imperial JapanMar 16, 20152 votes

How the fuck is Shaco part of this group now?

The Bard DogMar 16, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=C9 Kitty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=akuEPwAI,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-03-16T07:33:54.699+0000)

How the fuck is Shaco part of this group now?

shaco's not overpowered or even incredibly strong necessarily. but he is anti fun. stealth, fear, bonus damage when hitting from behind, and clone.

hey did you just get ganked by a shaco? here are your options!

turn around, fight him, and die in a 2v1
run away as he very quickly kills you because when you run he does more damage

there's also the insanely strong counterjungling he has, and group that with item 3087 item 3031 item 3074 item 3035 item 3006 item 3026

just a shiv and ravenous hydra brings his kill power up massively. with all of those items he is now an unkillable headache, who you have to pray he doesn't decide to set his sights on you.

his only real downside is that if he's feast or famine. but one kill in the first 5 minutes usually spells the end.

InsaneSamuraiMar 16, 20152 votes

Well she's new, mobile, and makes LCSBIGPLAYS, so they're not going to nerf her for about 3 years :(

PalPlaysMar 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

i get that she's high skillcap and dependent on a support, but jesus christ.

she's impossible for supports to itemize against, negates any and all skill shots, has a 10% health magic damage passive that synergizes with every meta support perfectly, has an unlimited stacking e that helps in securing objectives and chunking someone for 15% of their health, and has an ult that saves people from cc, bad decisions, and pretty much everything.

i don't care if her winrate is low, or if she's high skillcap. its only a matter of time before a lot of people master her, abuse her, and then make every single game for everyone toxic ahem

its like they made this champion FOR runaan's also. it basically gives her vayne's w with 3+spears on anyone and everyone hit

I won't deny that she's good nor discredit your post but...I personally don't mind her. I would rather see other champions recieve Riot's attention. Skarner, Anivia, Urgot (which he is), Ryze (him too), Amumu, Rammus, Zac, and other outdated champions could use tweaks.