Remember when maokai actually took some glimpse of skill to play?

RexSaur·Jan 20, 2017·22 votes·2,763 views

Then they made it so his Ult follows him around and his W % health damage, just so you cannot actually possibly fuck up, oh also back then he had decent ap ratios so if you wanted to do damage you had to build some AP instead of 6 tank items, in fact it even enabled some different builds like ap maokai mid back then (anyone remember chu8 trinity ap mid maokai?)

Basically he had more options to play, was more balanced and took more skill to play, now hes your average "perfect" tank that takes 0 skill to play and is always borderline overpowered, Bring back season 2 maokai.

37 Comments

OrangesilkJan 20, 201718 votes

So... You got stomped by a Maokai? And you wanna feel better by calling the player an unskilled noob or something?

He's a bit annoying because he's a point-n-click champion who at any given moment has too many stats and is thus a good champion with no counterplay (Like he is right now) or he doesn't have good stats and he's kinda useless.

He's not perfect by any means since he doesn't initiate all that well given his short W range, and he only singles out a single person, so he ends up being more of a defensive tank who isn't great at initiating but is fantastic at peeling. He's not broken either, merely he has good stats right now given how strong courage of the colossus is, it's getting heavily nerfed next patch so expect to see Maokai become a lot weaker.

Overall, he has shitty design, and is a bit strong right now, but nowhere near deserving this stupid rant.

TequilaZombieJan 21, 20171 votes

Make his R work like Trundle's W, only works in one place. Then crank the stats it gives up to 11. Make his root a skillshot, increase it's range.

BOOM! Non-dumbed down champion that is not stat check at it's finest.

Supreme Senpai69Jan 21, 20171 votes

If you crank the stats it gives up to 11, how is that not stat check?

TequilaZombieJan 21, 20171 votes

Because you can now play around it by moving outside of it's range and forcing a fight OUT of it. Increase power, reduce reliability. Just like they did with WW's ult.

Snowman ArcJan 21, 20171 votes

And why should we make all champions look the same? Some champions can be easier to play and be less effective doing it. Morgana has a root which is a skillshot, but it is fired from range and has a 90% AP ratio.

Different champions, different uses, different abilities.

TequilaZombieJan 21, 20171 votes

It wouldn't look the same as other champions simply by the nature of his kit. Which other champion has 2 forms of hard CC, AoE dmg reduction, and some weird poke?

It would increase his skill floor by a bit, allow more plays (using the root to go over walls to get in range, using it for escapes, etc), as well as increasing the room to outplay a Maokai.

Snowman ArcJan 21, 20171 votes

There are so many champions that have unique things in their kits. Why should Morgana root you to death AND have a possibly game breaking ulti AND have a CC-free magic shield?

Why should Yasuo have endless dashes, a knock up, a wall the nullifies all projectiles, double crit chance, a passive shield?

Why does Jax get a gap closer, AA reset, huge AS buff, a stun, a AA block, AoE damage reduction, empowered AAs, and a huge Armor/MR increase?

Maokai has a sustain in his passive, a slow / knockback, a root, a poking / warding tool and his ulti. He has very big mana costs, to the point that until he gets an Iceborn Gauntlet, he really suffers in his mana pool, and even then, he still has mana problems. That's one of his counterplays. Sure, he isn't easy to counter, since his cooldowns at 40% CDR are low, but why is this so bad, compared to someone like Shen who has a big global shield + TP that also has no counterplay?

Some things have counterplay, some others do not. Some abilities are stronger than others, some offer more utility, others offer more damage. Morgana's Q scales with 90% of her AP, so a full AP morgana can easily cut down the ADCs health to half with just 1 ability. It doesn't mean it's broken, it is what it is.

TequilaZombieJan 21, 20171 votes

I'm not saying he's broken. I'm saying he's on about the same level as Warwick. Point, click, do your stuff. If your stats are better, you win, if they are worse, you lose.

I don't really get why you think I'm against uniqueness! Fuck, I'm all for it! All that I am saying is that I don't really enjoy Maokai's kit being so point-and-clicky as it is right now.

He has no potential for cool outplays (seriously, look at Maokai Outplays videos. It's mostly him dodging stuff by walking and flashing or people seriously messing up, which you can have with any champion. Then compare those vids to something like Lee Sin, Ekko, or Zed outplays.) due to the very straightfoward and simple nature of his kit. The 1 ability that has more than 1 use is his sappling, which is both poke and a warding tool. Other than that, all of his other abilities have one use only.

And that's my problem with him. He becomes a binary outcome champion: is your combo stronger than your enemy's combo? Yes: Engage and win. No: Don't engage or you lose.

Hell, let's take Trynd, who's simple as hell. He has the following decisions to make during an engage:

1- Do I engage with my E or save it for later? 1.1- If I do use it for engage, do I spin straight foward to deal damage with my E or do I go in an angle to try and dodge a CC/dmg skillshot?

2- Do I use my W straight up to mitigate any retaliation I may suffer, or do I save it for when they try to run away?

3- Do I go all in and use my ult to go for the kill or do I just walk away after a short trade?

4- Do I use my Q for sustain or do I use the extra crit chance + AD for more damage?

Meanwhile Maokai's only questions are:

1- Do I have enough mana for an engage?

2- Am I stronger than my opponent?

The only other question he has is wheter use his ult or not, which is solved with the following questions:

1- Do I have the mana?

2- Is the enemy retaliating?

You see, they have the exact same amount of questions to answer, but whereas Trynd's questions are judgement based and have a lot of arguments for both courses of action, Maokai's are factually answered with a simple Yes or No that lead straight up to an action with little to no middle ground in between.

Snowman ArcJan 23, 20171 votes

I hear you. You don't enjoy binary champions, and that's alright. I don't like the super mechanical champions for example, or at least some of them. Sometimes, simple is best. If you have good game knowledge and are smart about the game, it means that picking Maokai can't go wrong. You can't really mess up for engage, can't really die and can always deal some damage while protecting your team. Simple to do, yet so effective and can easily carry people to high elo.

Relying on a fancy outplay is always risky. Sure, I'd rather play Irelia in my normal games than Maokai because it's more fun to do all the outplays etc, but I feel that I can climb higher and safer with Maokai.

As a sidenote, I love how I'm getting a lead top and then become unkillable and can force dives and then the enemy goes WTF NERF TANKS.

AptestJan 21, 20171 votes

this is how it used to be.

people QQed.

IDK why.

WoonStruckJan 20, 201710 votes

Remember when Cait actually took some glimpse of skill to play?

Ariel the CruelJan 21, 20174 votes

Remember when her niche as an ADC was only her safety?

RalanrJan 23, 20171 votes

Those were the days.

DanjengJan 21, 20171 votes

No.

FalconPawwwwnchJan 20, 20178 votes

Remember when Poppy actually had a weak early game instead of being considered weak but then still winning against Jayce in worlds

RexSaurJan 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Remember when Poppy actually had a weak early game instead of being considered weak but then still winning against Jayce in worlds

Its funny because i thought they couldnt possibly make poppy any more cancer than she was before.

And they actually did it, atleast before she had a garbage laning phase that could be abused, she had an actual weak phase in the game.

GunpointJan 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Remember when Poppy actually had a weak early game instead of being considered weak but then still winning against Jayce in worlds

At least someone beats jayce

Kanzaki RankoJan 20, 20173 votes

Brave of you posting this with the tank circlejerk here. +1

Ariel the CruelJan 21, 20174 votes

There's a circle-jerk for everything around here.

Sire HippingtonJan 20, 20173 votes

his ap ratios are as good as ever, and his basedamage vs squishys was actually higher. And the new ult has not just advantages, you need to postion properly in teamfights, and you can't use it for waveclear as much as the cd early on is nearly twice as high as it once was.

Papa AndreiJan 21, 20173 votes

You know its really funny, you have about 50 odd post discussions on the board, all of them complaining about something or the other, asking for X to be gutted. "Malz, ziggs, zyra, brand, darius, lee, vi" And to buff ADC and nerf tanks across the board.... And you also haven't played a single game in about 3 months..... K bro, nice trolling. Lame ADC snowflake, go back to your safe place.

Dominick DestineJan 23, 20173 votes

Remember when maokai actually took some glimpse of skill to play?

Ummm no, even from release he was always incredibly easy.

He was heralded as a simple, straightforward champ that beginners could use effectively... so I have no idea wtf you're even talking about.

RalanrJan 23, 20171 votes

This is the same person who said that damage was amped up because people couldn't deal with tanks.

They just have a tank hate boner.

FriusJan 20, 20172 votes

maokai is as fucked as poppy is top dmg without anybrain

Twitch ChatJan 20, 20172 votes

Maokai never took skill his old ult was just shit

YoungFarmerJan 21, 20171 votes

You can litterally out walk maokai... Hes honestly not even that OP lol

ArakadiaJan 21, 20171 votes

Was his old ult a AoE cast like Zyras?

Ungrateful ThugJan 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Was his old ult a AoE cast like Zyras?

You had to choose where you wanted to put the AOE. It didn't follow Maokai wherever he went, so if he put it down at a bad time or in a bad location enemies could abuse him for it.

Genocide VictimJan 21, 20171 votes

Uhh no?When was that lol

Ben SwoIoJan 21, 20171 votes

Sounds like Alistar when they dumbed down his combo, making it very difficult to mess up. I still don't understand the purpose of doing that. Why not just leave it to where it takes some skill / knowledge of the champ? Makes it more rewarding imo. Not that he's op or anything. Just comparing what they did to his combo to your Mao complaint.

Arsenic SulfurJan 21, 20171 votes

Because even pros couldn't do it consistently. You were allowed to use Q when it let you. They just made the combo more consistent.

ValyrianBladeJan 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Sounds like Alistar when they dumbed down his combo, making it very difficult to mess up. I still don't understand the purpose of doing that. Why not just leave it to where it takes some skill / knowledge of the champ? Makes it more rewarding imo. Not that he's op or anything. Just comparing what they did to his combo to your Mao complaint.

Yea that decision was ridiculous.

After 1 game of Alistar I had the combo down to over a 90% success rate. Sure, I missed it occasionally. Sure, the miss cost a kill occasionally. Boo-hoo, you mess up your combo and screw up a play? Like almost every other champion in the game?

That was a small change, but it was an awful one.

Ben SwoIoJan 21, 20171 votes

Yeah it seems a lot of people want these safe Annie point and click type champs as opposed to skill shots or having to string together a combo (not just stunning someone and throwing everything and the kitchen sink at them while they're immobile). I've hit the old Ali combos and messed em up as well. The timing had to be near perfect. I never found myself wanting them to make the combo easier. Now it's just whatever, anyone can do it easily. It's lame and just dumbs things down.

Arsenic SulfurJan 21, 20171 votes

His old ult was awful. It has the same problem as Illaoi's ult where you can fuck it over by simply walking away and it didn't even have the stats to make it worthwhile. If the enemy had any form of spammable AoE you either stood in the ult and get ass blasted or zoned out, wasting Maokai's mana. If you wanted team-wide protection you chose Soraka/Janna with locket.

The only way and ability can require more skill to use is if it gets it's mechanics changed. W getting %HP damage just makes Maokai kill you faster.

Unicorn EmojiJan 21, 20171 votes

Nothing about his playstyle has changed, aside from the ult. If he lacks skill now, then he lacked skill then. He only has two skill shots and neither of them really require brain activity to be used effectively.