Wasn't the Morde rework meant to give him options other than maxing his counterplay free E?

MealReadytoEat··1 votes·344 views

Morde's Siphon of Destruction has extremely non-interactive gameplay; he walks up, pokes you in minions (pushing/farming while he's at it), and walks away until its back off CD, relying on the shield he got from it to shrug off any retaliation.

5.16 shifted much of his power from his e (base damage greatly reduced) to his w and q, which resulted in him maxing his W first. Admittedly, this was too strong - it gave him great sustain, all in damage, and melee wave clear, but in 5.18 its damage was very nearly halved, and the sustain against minions all but removed. The move speed was also nerfed.

So he went back to maxing e - his q still wasn't worth maxing first, as its bad for farming and low in base damage; its the scaling that really goes up as you level it, not the base; putting points in it only makes a noticeable difference when you already have some items.

This is just an observation, I don't have the answers. Morde needs some power shifting, but I really like the new role he serves in the game. Straight out nerfing his E to the point were something else is worth maxing would just remove him from the game, and his base stats are already so low that I have a hard time seeing lowering them to put power into his w or q would do anything but make him more binary - low base stats matters quite a bit more when you are behind than when you are ahead.

Giving Morde's Q a higher base damage, but making the scaling based on champion level in a similar fashion to Garen's E, would be a good way to make his Q worth-while to max early, while maintaining his overall power level mid to late game. Simply increasing its base damage devalues offensive itemization on Morde; he needs the bulk of its damage to come from ratios mid to late game for offensive items to be worthwhile. His Q would still probably not be worth maxing in bot lane, but it'd make him far more viable and interactive top lane.

15 Comments

xl Kirito lx2 votes

Rose colored glasses. Old Mordekaiser was incredibly toxic. You won / lost fights based on having better stats then your opponent. Sadly thou, Morde's never going to max his Q first. The only way he survives duo laning is by shoving the wave under tower. Their adc has to choose between cs'ing and harassing.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

[{quoted}](name=xl Kirito lx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=agManRZ9,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-06T16:40:35.998+0000)

Rose colored glasses. Old Mordekaiser was incredibly toxic. You won / lost fights based on having better stats then your opponent. Sadly thou, Morde's never going to max his Q first. The only way he survives duo laning is by shoving the wave under tower. Their adc has to choose between cs'ing and harassing.

I said "His Q would still probably not be worth maxing in bot lane, but it'd make him far more viable and interactive top lane."

Yea, old morde was pretty terrible, I'm not one of the people saying they should revert it, I'm saying I'm disappointed he's reverted to maxing his most toxic/ least interactive ability.

Morde's w let him shove the wave back in 5.16, while only offering damage when the opponents were dumb enough to walk in melee range/ got caught by your support. It was too strong, especially considering the sustain it offered him, but they made it nearly worthless asides from the XP passive in 5.18.

Totalwanabe1 votes

what they could do to please your expectation is raise is base ad damage like x2 and nerf the e to the ground. you'd see morde max q first and risk it all into all in from lvl 1 and onward

MealReadytoEat1 votes

{quoted}

what they could do to please your expectation is raise is base ad damage like x2 and nerf the e to the ground. you'd see morde max q first and risk it all into all in from lvl 1 and onward

I can't see his Q being that useful bot lane in all honesty, but giving it more power early game would make him WAY more viable and interactive top lane.

MCBiggah991 votes

{quoted}

I can't see his Q being that useful bot lane in all honesty, but giving it more power early game would make him WAY more viable and interactive top lane.

Fun fact: Mordes who still max W have a higher average win rate.

Maximum Morde1 votes

Umm, max Q first, buy NLR first back if you don't buy boots first, and it hits like a truck. His E is fine for wave clearing with one point for a long time cause of total AD and Acceptable AP ratio(and it keeps his health costs down). His W has a good AP ratio so the NLR helps that out too.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=agManRZ9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-06T14:28:00.069+0000)

Umm, max Q first, buy NLR first back if you don't buy boots first, and it hits like a truck. His E is fine for wave clearing with one point for a long time. His W has a good AP ratio so the NLR helps that out too.

Q max first doesn't really offer much more DPS than his E, and its WAY less reliable and is worse for farming. You'll get torn apart by most ranged champions, and you still can't take most melee ones when they all in you.

Maximum Morde1 votes

{quoted}

Q max first doesn't really offer much more DPS than his E, and its WAY less reliable and is worse for farming. You'll get torn apart by most ranged champions, and you still can't take most melee ones when they all in you.

You'll get just as torn apart maxing E first since its range is pretty shit. You are right that Q isnt going to raise your DPS, it raises your burst. Hitting someone with your full combo with NLR, offensive runes and masteries will kill all but the tankiest of tanks early game. If your support is a good synergistic one like Nautilus, Alistar etc, maxing Q first just about ensures gank attempts from melee champs end in dead melee champs, a ghost, a turret, and a dragon.

He relies on having a support to enable him, but if you have that, then his Q absolutely destroys.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=agManRZ9,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-06T14:45:09.068+0000)

You'll get just as torn apart maxing E first. You are right that Q isnt going to raise your DPS, it raises your burst. Hitting someone with your full combo with NLR, offensive runes and masteries will kill all but the tankiest of tanks early game. If your support is a good synergistic one like Nautilus, Alistar etc, maxing Q first just about ensures gank attempts from melee champs end in dead melee champs, a ghost, a turret, and a dragon.

He relies on having a support to enable him, but if you have that, then his Q absolutely destroys.

Against ranged champions, he does just fine with the E max, its the only thing you see in higher tier play. Yes, three q's hurt quite a bit, but the unreliability of it, plus the trouble's you will have with wave clear, makes it not worth while. Keep in mind its not you and your support against their ADC, but you and your support vs their ADC and their support. Most of the time you will get CC'd or peeled long enough for your q to expire, it doesn't take much. Now that I think about it, increasing the timer on the Q would be one way to make it noticeably better early game.

Erockandroll1 votes

They knew Mord was Oppressive if he actually worked.

So they shoved him into the Duo Lane so that He would at least be Support reliant if he wants to be oppressive. All because they didn't have the time to do a complete overhaul of his kit.

Though Worlds has surprised me a little. With Mord comps, I was expecting a Ranged AD in the mid lane. (Varus, Jayce) but so far, they have been choosing the otherwise standard Midlane.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

{quoted}

They knew Mord was Oppressive if he actually worked.

So they shoved him into the Duo Lane so that He would at least be Support reliant if he wants to be oppressive. All because they didn't have the time to do a complete overhaul of his kit.

Though Worlds has surprised me a little. With Mord comps, I was expecting a Ranged AD in the mid lane. (Varus, Jayce) but so far, they have been choosing the otherwise standard Midlane.

Yup, Morde benefits far more from CC in mid lane than ranged AD, its best not to dig a hole in your comp to fill another.

Morde really needs an unignorable front line for him to succeed, and Darius fits that perfectly. It takes a team effort to take either one down, and with bot when you try to deal with one, the other messes you up.

Decrit1 votes

Old E was a version of what we have now, but with more base damage crammed in. The E as it is now is mostly a mid-range shield generation tool and for mild poke/harrass, while before was also a damaging tool that created shield that quickly filled his bar.

Now if he uses only E does not do much, while before all what he did was spam E.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

{quoted}

Old E was a version of what we have now, but with more base damage crammed in. The E as it is now is mostly a mid-range shield generation tool and for mild poke/harrass, while before was also a damaging tool that created shield that quickly filled his bar.

Now if he uses only E does not do much, while before all what he did was spam E.

Have you seen much high tier play with him? Spaming E is basically all he does in lane now too, although come mid to late game his q's began to matter.

Decrit1 votes

oh yeah, i agree... but that is what he did also before his rework.

The W was almost never used, if not to keep the shield up in the middle of a minion lane or to chase away by casting it on a minion, the Q was rarely used in duel scenarios and the main use was to counterengage or to hit a minion and make the echo hit the enemy... but not always, since it was expensive and risky.

Most of the time you were spamming E like they do right now, only with more damage ( it had not base shield regeneration, but more damage -> more shield aniway ), and was maxed first too. This mostly applied to mid lanes against mages, where casting E was basically the only thing you did for most of the lane phase.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

{quoted}

oh yeah, i agree... but that is what he did also before his rework.

Most of the time you were spamming E like they do right now, only with more damage ( it had not base shield regeneration, but more damage -> more shield aniway ), and was maxed first too. This mostly applied to mid lanes against mages, where casting E was basically the only thing you did for most of the lane phase.

The entire post was that doing nothing but spamming e was the game play pattern the rework was meant to address.

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