There's really no reason for Urgot to not have cooldowns on his damage

Moody P·Apr 11, 2019·9 votes·2,472 views

His complete lack of Windows on power is not compensated for with more modest numbers; he's just constantly GOOD. His legs are always up once mid game rolls in so positioning against them becomes irrelevant after lane.

It's even more frustrating to play a champion who does have specific Windows and win conditions and Urgot can still easily mop you up inside of what should be YOUR win condition with no more effort than simply leaving his W on.

Strongly recommend this recent update be reevaluated; there's no point that you can fight Urgot where his damage might be weaker and you can exploit that. You just get to deal with him having some extra shield HP or not. That's not enough.

20 Comments

Tham ChundiApr 11, 20191 votes

revert ezreal w

Soul DealerApr 11, 20191 votes

The reason Urgot doesn’t have cooldowns on his damage is the same reason Mundo doesn’t have a long cooldown on his cleaver...nobody knows. It’s a great mystery worth solving

Moody PApr 11, 20196 votes

I agree actually, Mundo has too little downtime, but at least his main damage is avoidable by a skillshot. Urgot just sits on you and you die

SaevumApr 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZ5384x7,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-11T19:51:22.841+0000)

Urgot just sits on you and you die

That's accurate. The new W doesn't even cost mana for the damage output that it provides.

KFCeytronApr 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZ5384x7,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-11T19:51:22.841+0000)

I agree actually, Mundo has too little downtime, but at least his main damage is avoidable by a skillshot. Urgot just sits on you and you die

Mundo's cleaver is extremely difficult to avoid without sitting behind your minions. You can negate Urgot's W by avoiding his skillshots and standing in a friendly minion wave.

Doge2020Apr 11, 20191 votes

To me I think that this is slightly fair in the way that he has to deal the damage. He basically has to be in melee range, so range can (with limited effectiveness depending on champ and skill of players) be an advantage that players can use to beat Urgot down.

for me personally; I am starting to pick up Fiora, as I learn and experience more about the champ I am also looking at points in other champs that I can use to win. And in the case of urgot I think that the delay on his E is a very big factor for Fiora. I do see that having to move around urgot to proc my vitals is a very big drawback because I effectively give urgot a lot of free damage that he doesn’t need to work for. On the flip side I see the windup on his E as something helpful for me to easily cast W, stun Urgot and then have a window to move around and proc vitals without as much retaliation damage.

Besides my slight “rant” and kinda irrelevant talk on the matchup of Fiora and Urgot, my message in that was to show something that you maybe missed to change the discussion more towards a conversation about Urgot counters instead of this Urgot rant that I saw a lot in this post. In the first sentence I did mention Range, I am open to a conversation about how range does/can counter Urgot and am open to conversations to see if Urgot has any windows for opponents to take advantage of in lane/out of lane.

Sorry Moody if this insults you or hijacks your post, just lmk if this isn’t appropriate for the post so I can delete my comment and make my own post

Shiroe OkazakiApr 12, 20191 votes

your playing fiora. Shes another champion that no one really counters.

Doge2020Apr 12, 20191 votes

If I remember correctly, most of her matchups in top have positive winrates against her.

Besides that I don’t think you really understood my comment that much or at all. I was mentioning Fiora, who is pretty bad despite your claim that she has almost no counters. I was merely mentioning one possible counter to urgot as an example to start a conversation so people can find more counters (or hard counters) to urgot.

Shiroe OkazakiApr 15, 20191 votes

She wins every mathc up. but her kit doesn't really win games.and sorry i was probably a bit tilted at the time lol. Urgots problem is that he either bullies the lane phase then has his w scale into late with the passive procs going off every second. So even if you do beat him in lane he becomes a god tank late game who out damages and heals everyone.

The EcdysiastApr 11, 20191 votes

Urgot is performing worse than ever.

Are you seriously just whining because you like to play the only champions vulnerable to him slowly walking around them?

It's even more frustrating to play a champion who does have specific Windows and win conditions and Urgot can still easily mop you up inside of what should be YOUR win condition with no more effort than simply leaving his W on.

You mean it's more frustrating when you pick a champion whose win condition is "don't get hard countered" and the enemy picks Urgot.

Moody PApr 11, 20194 votes

Urgot is performing worse than ever

No? By no metric is he even remotely weak right now. He's one of the best tops in the game.

The EcdysiastApr 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZ5384x7,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-04-11T20:46:49.480+0000)

No? By no metric is he even remotely weak right now. He's one of the best tops in the game.

You really don't keep up to date with your info huh

VoraciousXApr 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZ5384x7,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-04-12T00:56:00.132+0000)

You really don't keep up to date with your info huh

According to u.gg Urgot's S+ tier.

As for the topic at hand, it may be just me, but his shield was cancerous pre-rework as well. It made him so tanky, but now that the rework IS out, and he's building juggernaut/tank items, this could have something to do with it. They kept his shield(and the extremely large size of it) despite making him one who should naturally be building tanky.

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZ5384x7,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-11T21:17:37.544+0000)

Maybe its just me, but I really dislike how he deals so much damage, is fairly tanky and ranged to boot.

Although I do find many of the recent reworks actually be quite good/interesting, its as if riot has forgotten the other 40 or so dated toplane champions that have to deal with the shit they can do.

Used to be the case Pre rework urgot (and jayce) was heavily gated by mana costs which did go along way to reduce there overbearing playstyle in toplane, not that im expecting riot to do anything about them but I can live in hope something is done.

I remember when Urgot and Jayce both had to build tear. Now neither does. Perhaps they could make his legs cost mana to be activated?

The EcdysiastApr 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

According to u.gg Urgot's S+ tier.

As for the topic at hand, it may be just me, but his shield was cancerous pre-rework as well. It made him so tanky, but now that the rework IS out, and he's building juggernaut/tank items, this could have something to do with it. They kept his shield(and the extremely large size of it) despite making him one who should naturally be building tanky.

I remember when Urgot and Jayce both had to build tear. Now neither does. Perhaps they could make his legs cost mana to be activated?

The champion "tier" listing on most sites is nearly arbitrary. Op.gg shows him at 48% win rate.

And the problem you're complaining about isn't restricted to or even most prominent on Urgot. None of the juggernauts are building tanky like they're intended, instead just having all the sustain they need built-in while they rush a damage item into Sterak's.

He IS a juggernaut. Any fault you have with him building juggernaut items speaks more to the fact the items are busted for the class, not specifically Urgot.

VoraciousXApr 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZ5384x7,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-12T04:16:17.345+0000)

The champion "tier" listing on most sites is nearly arbitrary. Op.gg shows him at 48% win rate.

And the problem you're complaining about isn't restricted to or even most prominent on Urgot. None of the juggernauts are building tanky like they're intended, instead just having all the sustain they need built-in while they rush a damage item into Sterak's.

He IS a juggernaut. Any fault you have with him building juggernaut items speaks more to the fact the items are busted for the class, not specifically Urgot.

I looked him up on u.gg, which most recently was pretty much proven the most accurate to Riot's internal data. He was also at a 51.21% win rate, not 48%. Also, it's not the items that are a problem, the problem, in my opinion, is why is Urgot essentially a damage focused tank with a shield?(Juggernauts are basically damage focused tanks, which is why I used that term, not to say he's a tank, but he builds tank while dealing high damage). If you're saying the items are a problem, of which Urgot is the only juggernaut in S+ tier, then the only solution would be to make Black Cleaver melee specific, and I think that would likely ruin him. Tanks don't generally have shields that scale with them. Only Nautilus has a shield that scales with him(that I can think of) and that's because he's just a big ball of CC with no innate defenses and is actually considered a TANK.

To add to this, people always complained about Riven having an AD scaling shield, and yet, here we have Urgot with an AD AND HP scaling shield that has 50% higher AD scaling than Riven. The cooldown's longer, but Riven goes in and out of fights, typically builds more AD, and doesn't build much tank stats, whereas Urgot builds much more tanky and stays in the fight until he kills you. An Urgot can have around 1200 bonus health, and around 240 AD, making his shield around a 560 health shield. At level 18 without any runes coming into play, this gives him almost 4k total effective health(3841), on top of damage being delayed as a bleed that he can heal back while fighting you. I would say this is a big reason why Urgot succeeds. You could fight him if he had a reasonable amount of health, but this is pure tank levels of health on top of damage on top of (essentially) damage reduction. Losing the shield he'd still have around 3.3k health. It might mess up his early so they could maybe lower the bonus AD scaling, or remove the bonus HP scaling(or the AD scaling, but at least if he builds more AD that'd be a bigger shield to play around his less health, rather than getting a scaling that just happens naturally over the course of the game and incentivizes him to just be a wall of health that you can't break through).

The EcdysiastApr 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I looked him up on u.gg, which most recently was pretty much proven the most accurate to Riot's internal data. He was also at a 51.21% win rate, not 48%. Also, it's not the items that are a problem, the problem, in my opinion, is why is Urgot essentially a damage focused tank with a shield?(Juggernauts are basically damage focused tanks, which is why I used that term, not to say he's a tank, but he builds tank while dealing high damage). If you're saying the items are a problem, of which Urgot is the only juggernaut in S+ tier, then the only solution would be to make Black Cleaver melee specific, and I think that would likely ruin him. Tanks don't generally have shields that scale with them. Only Nautilus has a shield that scales with him(that I can think of) and that's because he's just a big ball of CC with no innate defenses and is actually considered a TANK.

To add to this, people always complained about Riven having an AD scaling shield, and yet, here we have Urgot with an AD AND HP scaling shield that has 50% higher AD scaling than Riven. The cooldown's longer, but Riven goes in and out of fights, typically builds more AD, and doesn't build much tank stats, whereas Urgot builds much more tanky and stays in the fight until he kills you. An Urgot can have around 1200 bonus health, and around 240 AD, making his shield around a 560 health shield. At level 18 without any runes coming into play, this gives him almost 4k total effective health(3841), on top of damage being delayed as a bleed that he can heal back while fighting you. I would say this is a big reason why Urgot succeeds. You could fight him if he had a reasonable amount of health, but this is pure tank levels of health on top of damage on top of (essentially) damage reduction. Losing the shield he'd still have around 3.3k health. It might mess up his early so they could maybe lower the bonus AD scaling, or remove the bonus HP scaling(or the AD scaling, but at least if he builds more AD that'd be a bigger shield to play around his less health, rather than getting a scaling that just happens naturally over the course of the game and incentivizes him to just be a wall of health that you can't break through).

Could you show me where that was proven? I seem to have missed the announcement.

Pretty simple answer as to why he has a shield though. He doesn't have healing. Nasus, Darius, Garen, and Illaoi all have healing. Mordekaiser also has a shield. That's part of the class. Again, a complaint about Urgot for reasons other than his ranged abilities, is a complaint about the class. He was already fucked out of a juggernaut item when they made Sterak's melee-only.

And okay, you can't say, "Urgot's shield scales more AD," as if that's a problem when you then make that point moot by saying he doesn't build AD. So it doesn't matter that his shield scales higher.

VoraciousXApr 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZ5384x7,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-12T22:26:47.294+0000)

Could you show me where that was proven? I seem to have missed the announcement.

Pretty simple answer as to why he has a shield though. He doesn't have healing. Nasus, Darius, Garen, and Illaoi all have healing. Mordekaiser also has a shield. That's part of the class. Again, a complaint about Urgot for reasons other than his ranged abilities, is a complaint about the class. He was already fucked out of a juggernaut item when they made Sterak's melee-only.

And okay, you can't say, "Urgot's shield scales more AD," as if that's a problem when you then make that point moot by saying he doesn't build AD. So it doesn't matter that his shield scales higher.

I didn't say he didn't build AD, I said he built LESS AD. If you notice, I mentioned how much AD he could potentially build in his most common builds, and most of those AD items have a little AD and are much more defensive. As for your explanations of why he has a shield, let's look at this. Nasus has 24% healing on auto attacks, of which he builds 25 AD He'd have to do 700 damage in 3 Qs to heal as much as Urgot. Know how hard it is to hit 3 Qs as Nasus when you're going all in(I mean it's easy vs melees but again, he'd need 700 damage per Q to make that goal. He'd likely kill them before he healed as much as Urgot's shield)? Okay, does that equal up to 560 effective health in a fight? I mean Nasus is his own beast but you actually have to initiate on him, and kiting him is generally how you go about it, or make him waste his ultimate. Darius' healing is probably the only valid possible comparison to Urgot, but Darius doesn't build Death's Dance. Garen has in-combat healing? I never knew that...hm....Illaoi heals for 5% missing health, and again, can't engage. She is not gonna outheal one person, unless they get hit by 5 tentacles, which can't happen. You know how much health Illaoi would need to be at to heal 560 health? She'd need 11,200 max health and be at 0% health. K let's look at Mordekaiser. Hm...this is interesting, he doesn't build defensively AT ALL. In fact, he builds full glass cannon with pure AP. No wonder he has a shield....

Moody PApr 12, 20194 votes

Well, lets see here.. Good win rate, solid pick rate, high ban rate and a steady high elo presence, not to mention that every high elo player will tell you he's good or busted. Yeah, he's looking pretty good right now.

Shiroe OkazakiApr 12, 20191 votes

Urgots blowing through everyone top lane where litterally no melee champion can touch him and most ranged even lose to him. He's so strong to the point where hes played 3 roles. Goes into a team fight with a full damage build mows everyone down taking little damage. But hes worse than ever hm.

Death by GlamourApr 11, 20191 votes

Maybe its just me, but I really dislike how he deals so much damage, is fairly tanky and ranged to boot.

Although I do find many of the recent reworks actually be quite good/interesting, its as if riot has forgotten the other 40 or so dated toplane champions that have to deal with the shit they can do.

Used to be the case Pre rework urgot (and jayce) was heavily gated by mana costs which did go along way to reduce there overbearing playstyle in toplane, not that im expecting riot to do anything about them but I can live in hope something is done.