Fiora was overnerfed.

DropFill·Apr 2, 2016·10 votes·966 views

She needs something . She is worse than release fiora now, and suffers from the same problems.

45 Comments

Critmaster GarenApr 2, 20165 votes

ad fiora needs a buff.

bruiser fiora might not deal as much damage as ad fiora, but still ends up as a better than average bruiser. thats the real issue.

they need to make some scaling changes to her kit to make building damage on her more effective than building defense. thats her only problem right now. i think it would be appropriate to add some crit scalings to her kit instead of discouraging her from building the stat.

fiora is a melee adc. they need to get her build from this

item 3748 item 3071 item 3053 item 3065 item 3742

to something like this

item 3074 item 3031 item 3508 item 3046 item 3026

one way to accomplish that, is to have her passive scale multiplicative with crit and bonus ad, and her riposte cooldown with attack speed. they also need to change her e so crit isnt an entirely wasted stat on her.

the only reason why fiora has such a versatile and powerful kit, is because shes expected to build squishy and die quickly when she messes up.

Woook3rApr 2, 20161 votes

Im not sure why sustain isnt a bigger part of her passive. I dont like the circle after she gets ulti off, but the sustain should be a bigger part of her kit. At least, it was from a historical perspective. Maybe buff the passive heal and force her to proc vitals with innate squishyness.

Id also give her q a larger striking distance and keep the dash distance the same. Combine that with low base dmg on passive and shes got good sustain in lane which is connected to light trades instead of heavy ones. The range makes her hard for some to punish, but doesnt affect others like gnar.

Its like shes just feeling you out in the early game and gonna poke hard once she gets items. Id just remove that circle altogether tbh.

Critmaster GarenApr 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Im not sure why sustain isnt a bigger part of her passive.

because that would promote a bruiser build.

riot intended for us to play her on a squishy glass cannon build with not more than 1 defensive item. if you build more reliable sustain into her kit, then building tanky becomes more rewarding on her, since all those extra hitpoints synergize with the resistances you built.

you also have less of a reason to build lifesteal.

a lot of innate sustain usually promotes tanky builds. hence why they gave darius and illaoi % missing health heals on their main damage tools. they dont have to itemize into lifesteal to keep themselves going through a fight. even if its just a flat value like in renektons case.

Woook3rApr 2, 20161 votes

if the sustain comes from items or scales on ad? then its bruiser?

Critmaster GarenApr 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

if the sustain comes from items or scales on ad? then its bruiser?

no, i mean if the sustain on her passive was just increased, then it would promote a bruiser build. it might even do it if you make it scale with ad, since titanic hydra and steraks provide ad.

sustain from items would basically be lifesteal items. if you dont give her any sustain in her kit, it basically forces her to build lifesteal as her only option.

Woook3rApr 2, 20161 votes

so if it amplified lifesteal...?

Critmaster GarenApr 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

so if it amplified lifesteal...?

i mean. that would be a possibility, but i dont think sustain is really an issue for her with hydra in her core build. if she still needs more, she could go for warlords.

allowing glass cannon fiora to use riposte more often to prevent lethal damage would probably be a better solution, and make her require a bit mroe mchanical skill than simply outhealing damage at a crazy rate.

maybe have lifesteal apply to the true damage as part of her passive?

AbyssphereApr 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aWpyWrcI,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-02T21:47:54.179+0000)

ad fiora needs a buff.

bruiser fiora might not deal as much damage as ad fiora, but still ends up as a better than average bruiser. thats the real issue.

they need to make some scaling changes to her kit to make building damage on her more effective than building defense. thats her only problem right now. i think it would be appropriate to add some crit scalings to her kit instead of discouraging her from building the stat.

fiora is a melee adc. they need to get her build from this

to something like this

one way to accomplish that, is to have her passive scale multiplicative with crit and bonus ad, and her riposte cooldown with attack speed. they also need to change her e so crit isnt an entirely wasted stat on her.

the only reason why fiora has such a versatile and powerful kit, is because shes expected to build squishy and die quickly when she messes up.

The problem is it's difficult to get Fiora building those items because Riot designer her damage to be primarily reliant on her passive, ignoring standard auto damage. Attack speed is discouraged because it won't let her proc her passive any faster and crit is discouraged because her E means you're wasting it a lot of the time.

At best they can try to get Fiora building every high AD item in the game. I don't think building like an ADC will make sense on her with this kit.

Critmaster GarenApr 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The problem is it's difficult to get Fiora building those items because Riot designer her damage to be primarily reliant on her passive, ignoring standard auto damage. Attack speed is discouraged because it won't let her proc her passive any faster and crit is discouraged because her E means you're wasting it a lot of the time.

At best they can try to get Fiora building every high AD item in the game. I don't think building like an ADC will make sense on her with this kit.

thats why i think her kit should get changes to scale with those stats.

her e changed so it does benefit from crit.

her passive changed so ad is not enough to increase the value, but that it also needs critical strike. so building ad + defense items will be a nerf to her passive, while building ad + crit items would bring her to the same values as ad fiora now.

her riposte changed so its cooldown scales down with attack speed, like yasuos q. so adc fiora would get to use riposte more often than bruiser fiora.

RagarenApr 2, 20164 votes

She needs to be nerfed again. Leave her like yorick, broken and forgotten.

DropFillApr 2, 20166 votes

{quoted}

She needs to be nerfed again.

No, she doesn't . Her win ratio is pathetic low

RagarenApr 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No, she doesn't . Her win ratio is pathetic low

So is lee sins.

AbyssphereApr 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

So is lee sins.

And Riot haven't nerfed him since season 4 because of that.

Ricky Spanish DCApr 2, 20164 votes

Lol is this a late april fools joke? These nerfs are not too much at all. 1 percent damage and a slow reduction arent big things whatsoever. If you want to see an overnerfed champion that is worse than their release, look at tahm kench.

Critmaster GarenApr 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ricky Spanish DC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aWpyWrcI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-04-02T22:05:30.760+0000)

Lol is this a late april fools joke? These nerfs are not too much at all. 1 percent damage and a slow reduction arent vig things whatsoever. If you want to see an overnerfed champion that is worse than their release, look at tahm kench.

a champion doesnt have to be olaf'd to be overnerfed. op is right, the nerfs hit her too hard. she was actually already at below 50% winrate before the nerfs.

the problem was never that fiora was too strong, but rather that the bruiser build combined with a melee adc kit had almost no counterplay.

her problem isnt overall power, but that the item changes to the game caused an undesirable shift in playstile. with the reason being, that her kit literally only scales on two stats. ad, and cdr. this makes her synergize better with a bruiser build than a squishy adc build.

Ricky Spanish DCApr 2, 20164 votes

Winrate isn't indicative of anything unless it is super high or super low. The fact is, bruiser or full ad build, fiora did way too much damage and was way too safe of a champ when getting that damage. She is not overnerfed whatsoever. Everybody hates that champion for a reason.

Critmaster GarenApr 2, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ricky Spanish DC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aWpyWrcI,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-04-02T22:11:46.631+0000)

Winrate isn't indicative of anything unless it is super high or super low. The fact is, bruiser or full ad build, fiora did way too much damage and was way too safe of a champ when getting that damage. She is not overnerfed whatsoever. Everybody hates that champion for a reason.

the winrates i mentioned are plat and upwards.

ad fiora was nowhere near too safe.

the damage ad fiora deals is appropriate considering how risky she is to play. shes a champion whos designed to constantly balance on the razors edge. squishy in melee with only your own ability to react to your opponents to keep you alive. if you mess up you die quickly. if you do it right, you can carry like any adc.

people hate yasuo too, but that doesnt mean he isnt a fair champion to play against.

Ricky Spanish DCApr 2, 20163 votes

She was intended to be a risky ad duelist, and she became an unstoppable tank with huge mobility, huge damage, huge sustain, and an ability that blocks every other f*king ability in the game- even summoner spells. How is that a healthy/balanced champion?

Critmaster GarenApr 2, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ricky Spanish DC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aWpyWrcI,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-02T22:17:36.238+0000)

She was intended to be a risky ad duelist, and she became an unstoppable tank with huge mobility, huge damage, huge sustain, and an ability that blocks every other f*king ability in the game- even summoner spells. How is that a healthy/balanced champion?

did you even read my commets?

i already said that bruiser fiora is the problem, and glass cannon fiora is too weak. nerfs dont fix that. the nerf to ripostes cooldown hit her glass cannon build actually harder than her bruiser build, sicne she relies more on the ability when she doesnt have additional defenses.

what she needs is scaling changes that make her kit better when shes stacking damage, and less when shes stacking defense.

Ricky Spanish DCApr 2, 20161 votes

I agree with that. And Riot is doing that with some other champs like yi, to encourage more damage builds, and not giant tanks that murder you easily. However, the issue was Fiora was just strong in general, it was like when you got 1 kill, you could pretty much 1v5 the enemy team. Her mechanics are unhealthy and that's why she got nerfed and most of the community hates her.

Critmaster GarenApr 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ricky Spanish DC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aWpyWrcI,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-02T22:24:13.554+0000)

I agree with that. And Riot is doing that with some other champs like yi, to encourage more damage builds, and not giant tanks that murder you easily. However, the issue was Fiora was just strong in general, it was like when you got 1 kill, you could pretty much 1v5 the enemy team. Her mechanics are unhealthy and that's why she got nerfed and most of the community hates her.

i dont think any champion in the game can 1v5.

the only way ad fiora was strong in teamfights was usually when the enemy had no idea what she was doing. fiora is actually really weak in teamfights on a squishy build.

BoulderoxApr 2, 20161 votes

doesn't matter really when her passive scales off the enemies max hp.... reguardless of how hard the numbers are hit, % hp on an AA with 4 other abilities is unheard of by many champs, and the mobility she has with a lunge is just ludicrous when she can half reset and do it again... but lets not talk about the ability that BLOCKS EVERY SKILL IN THE GAME, Yasuo Braum get flack for there shields but ffs, fiora weapoinizes it..... Let me poke this unstoppable rock monster and be k

Critmaster GarenApr 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

doesn't matter really when her passive scales off the enemies max hp.... reguardless of how hard the numbers are hit, % hp on an AA is unheard of by many champs, and the mobility she has with a lunge is just ludicrous when she can half reset and do it again... but lets not talk about the ability that BLOCKS EVERY SKILL IN THE GAME, get flack for there shields but ffs, fiora weapoinizes it..... Let me poke this unstoppable rock monster and be k

yea, ok. but the fact that fiora deals a shitload of damage while being mobile is not a problem.

the only problem exists when she can do so while being beefy. like i said. thats why her scalings need to change, not her kit. and yasuo is the same.

melee carries are supposed to carry. thats not gonna change.

at leats fiora has to take risks and get close to her opponent and the enemy team to get her % true damage. unlike a certain marksman who can do so while hiding behind teammates.

BoulderoxApr 3, 20162 votes

Yea, I agree she ha sto get all in, but sadly that is the new thing... Many top laners have high base damages and beefy stats in the same kit... Which is a problem by default, and seems fioras teamfight devolves into ulting squishy and all inning that one target, getting the proc heal and deatrying from there.

hOrnnApr 2, 20163 votes

upvoted for response, but saw the name wish I could give +2 lol.

scumbag ricky Spanish dc from game after trolling with tahm and bard probs.

Ricky Spanish DCApr 2, 20161 votes

Lol

hOrnnApr 2, 20162 votes

nope...

MyrmironApr 2, 20161 votes

I think she's fine now. Her lategame is basically untouched, just her lane got worse which is fair looking at that fucking lategame imo.

DropFillApr 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I think she's fine now. Her lategame is basically untouched, just her lane got worse which is fair looking at that fucking lategame imo.

Her lategame is only good 1v1. And that never happens late game. So no, she is not good lategame

lilgabzApr 3, 20161 votes

You are supposed to build dmg items, but you are incredibly close range. you try to jump in, if they cc you you deal 0 dmg and die... before you could be a little tanky and were able to prock the full ult off but now... its a lot harder imo

epicgizmo519Apr 2, 20161 votes

fiora is op as she is idk why u think shes hard to play when she can carry a team in 15 min like yi can

DropFillApr 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

fiora is op as she is idk why u think shes hard to play when she can carry a team in 15 min like yi can

Her win ratio is 41% before 25min. She can't carry a team for shit

J E B A ł T E DApr 3, 20161 votes

http://i.imgur.com/Z5IE7kP.jpg

Graves Quinn Poppy need buffs too rite?

DropFillApr 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

http://i.imgur.com/Z5IE7kP.jpg

need buffs too rite?

No, because two of them are ranged, and the other one is naturally tank. Fiora has to go full squishy and melee. None of this champs have the same build/play style.

J E B A ł T E DApr 3, 20162 votes

http://i.imgur.com/gr1Tmh3.jpg

DropFillApr 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

http://i.imgur.com/gr1Tmh3.jpg

Explain so sir, because it makes no sense

J E B A ł T E DApr 3, 20162 votes

You're asking for Fiora buffs. Fiora's kit is cancer and unbalanceable, so I asked for Graves/Quinn/Poppy buffs as irony since they suffer the same problems. You took everything 100% serious.

dun

DropFillApr 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You're asking for Fiora buffs. Fiora's kit is cancer and unbalanceable, so I asked for Graves/Quinn/Poppy buffs as irony since they suffer the same problems. You took everything 100% serious.

dun

Their kits are not even similar. They don't suffer the same problems LOL. Graves can burst while having dps and good healing. Quinn can roam way too effectively for someone with such a strong laning phase. Don't even know what to say abour poppy. And fiora was only a problem building tank/bruiser. Full glass canon fiora is garbage, and she should build glass canon is order to be effective.

J E B A ł T E DApr 3, 20163 votes

Same problems = toxic kit and unbalancable

small nerf makes them unviable? Fiora. Fiora received a small nerf

If any of the others i mentioned received a small nerfed, unviable

That is the sign of a toxic and unbalancable kit

You're putting words in my mouth - and you suffer the same problems as Fiora, Poppy, Graves and Quinn

DropFillApr 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Same problems = toxic kit and unbalancable

small nerf makes them unviable? Fiora. Fiora received a small nerf

If any of the others i mentioned received a small nerfed, unviable

That is the sign of a toxic and unbalancable kit

You're putting words in my mouth - and you suffer the same problems as Fiora, Poppy, Graves and Quinn

Her passive got nerfed, her ultimate, her W CD, her E slow. All her hit got nerfed. Tell me more about this small nerf

ZorasamaApr 3, 20161 votes

I think they ninja nerfed her E.

It used to increae her total attack speed

DropFillApr 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think they ninja nerfed her E.

It used to increae her total attack speed

They nerfed her so many times that now she has to build the same way as her release one. But she was garbage when released, and is now too

ZorasamaApr 3, 20161 votes

Old Fiora wasn't garbage in anyway beside her ult was bugged. Actually, release Fiora was stronger than Fiora just before the rework because they nerfed her ult at some point.

DropFillApr 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Old Fiora wasn't garbage in anyway beside her ult was bugged. Actually, release Fiora was stronger than Fiora just before the rework because they nerfed her ult at some point.

I am comparing release fiora post rework with this fiora. Nowadays, she is worse than release post rework fiora, and she was bad alraedy at that time

o0Kushh0oApr 4, 20161 votes

fiora has to be nerfed again to become a trash tier champ just like akali rito pls