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I'v noticed a lot of complaints about "Assassins" lately...

Zerenza··46 votes·2,568 views

Hecarim Shyvana LeeSin Vi Zac Did you mean these?

Or these? Talon Katarina Zed Fizz Ekko Diana ?

I'm actually genuinely curious because as far as i know the Mid Lane and jungle ACTUAL assassins that are actually supposed to be assassins aren't overbearing and oppressive. These jungle diver's though that keep one shoting me under tower are pretty dumb, i honestly get one shot more by LeeSin than Rengar under tower.

Most of the Mid Lane Assassins have pretty fair winrate's and OK pick rates(cause their fun) the highest win rate out of the assassins is Leblanc and that's because she's a bit overtuned and a lot of high ELO player's find her much easier to play than Katarina or other assassins.

What really bother's me is people mistaking Diver's for Assassins because of diver's being really strong right now, it runs the risk of things happening to the assassin class when all their doing is simply doing what their supposed to. When i play ekko or kat i never dive someone and 100-0 someone, i usually just can't it's impossible unless i'm REALLY fed, but if i go play Lee Sin or Hecarim i guarantee that i'd do it almost every single gank.

Please do us Assassin player's a favor and blame the actual problem.

Disclaimer: I understand some assassins can be unfun to play against but they definitely aren't OP, there is a difference and it's not them that's doing the one shots under tower.

58 Comments

RavenMagus28 votes

my feelings when Akali isn't even on the list

Papa Andrei5 votes

I used to dread playing vs her, but now im like "Oh she didn't burst me? cool i will just kill her now because she has no heal"

RavenMagus3 votes

Honestly, I really like the new Akali. The passive actually feels pretty nice and I love the changes to her W. The problem with her now is that she is still absolutely awful in the early laning phase, when every other assassin got changes that make them killer even before level 6.

Ekko Talon Katarina Leblanc Zed Fizz will all flat out kill you in lane if you overstep and make a mistake, missing an ability or stand in the wrong place at the wrong time. But the best Akali can do is chunk half your health with Q/auto and then she has no more damage - and unlike everyone else she doesn't have much in the way of a gapcloser pre-6.

Vellich0r1 votes

Ekko is actually pretty trash in laning. He can get kills, but he has to go in and out multiple times to get you low enough for the kill, so it relies on him constantly outplaying you, not just one or two misteps. fizz though... He just does awful things if you are slightly out of position.

RavenMagus1 votes

Ekko can chunk pretty hard with a powerful trade if you get yourself stuck in the Timewinder (2 hits from that, then he phase dives you for a huge chunk of health; the blink in and movespeed out makes it hard to respond to him in kind). You're right, Ekko is unlikely to 100-0 you like some of the others can (Talon, Kat, Fizz all come to mind), but he has that powerful trade that can put the hurt on you.

(Also, Ekko has the best ranged waveclear of the bunch, especially with the Leblanc nerfs, so that's definitely a thing)

Akali can't punish you like that. That's her problem. You kind of have to walk up into her face and then let her hit you, or wade around in her shroud for a bit. Her trade's not as potent and she doesn't have easy access to it either.

Vellich0r1 votes

That's very true on a lot of points. The most important point there is the waveclear thing though. Ekko trades for the first ten minutes are virtually non existent unless you stick around in time winder (and honestly that is much harder than one thinks.) Usually you actually E in then use Q and an auto for the passive proc, but that only works out well if they have no cc or good trading nukes (they can usually avoid it or make it not worth the effort). Once you get revolver though, you pop off really well, but until you have double dorans, a refillable, and revolver you can't really trade effectively.

Death and Doom2 votes

zed is absolute trash rn imo. he has zero kill potential without his ult, and even with it it just takes a zhonyas, cc ability, or just smacking him hard enough to ruin any chance of him killing you.

RavenMagus3 votes

If he hits you with double shurikens it still hurts. It is hard, but the damage potential is there.

He is also still a somewhat safe laner with the range his shadow affords him, and wealth of AOE abilities.

I honestly agree that Zed sucks too, but he's still a better laner than Akali is.

LankPants4 votes

Honestly, I really like the new Akali. The passive actually feels pretty nice and I love the changes to her W.

The changes to W are probably the worst in the rework. They make shroud less about the shroud and more about the shitty blink.

RavenMagus1 votes

Eh, not really. The blink is low, but it's honestly kind of nice, and the shroud honestly feels a lot more fluid to use, more responsive.

Sure you lose the ability to place it over a nearby area, but I honestly don't think that's as big a deal compared to the juking you can do with the minor blink effect (not to mention the ability to cross walls that don't have a jungle monster on the other side is pretty nice). Other than that it's still the same old shroud.

LankPants5 votes

Sure you lose the ability to place it over a nearby area, but I honestly don't think that's as big a deal compared to the juking you can do with the minor blink effect

It's a huge deal. Placing the shroud where you wanted allowed you to place the shroud just in front of the creep wave and use it to zone away from the creeps while you grabbed some CS. Not to mention in fights having placement over shroud is just better since you can place it where you actually get the most out of it.

Eh, not really. The blink is low, but it's honestly kind of nice, and the shroud honestly feels a lot more fluid to use, more responsive.

How can you even make that argument when shroud puts your kit on a 0.5 second CD. It's clunky as all hell. Arguments to fluidity don't even make sense. I could throw down my old shroud and ult instantly after. That's actually fluidity.

RavenMagus1 votes

I honestly feel like the new shroud activates faster than the old one did.

That could just be me misremembering things, though, I'll be honest about that.

You have a fair point about using it for creep waves, too, the new shroud is a bit more awkward for that.

Still, I honestly like the blink. I think it's a cool addition to her kit. Things like the brief delay could definitely stand to be ironed out, and I do think she could use a better early lane phase...

LankPants3 votes

I honestly feel like the new shroud activates faster than the old one did.

It's always been 0.25 seconds cast time. The only time it wasn't was early on in the rework where it was nerfed to 0.35 seconds for some reason.

Things like the brief delay could definitely stand to be ironed out

The brief delay isn't the problem, it wasn't a problem before the rework and isn't now. The problem is that no matter where you place your shroud half of it will be useless. You have a semicircle of actually useful shroud in almost every scenario.

Sraeg20131 votes

Unless she gets item 3146.

Then there's nearly no difference.

Spice POWAH8 votes

Whenever I think of "Assassin" I think of Annie Syndra Veigar Tryndamere

Ahristocats1 votes

trynd?

Spice POWAH1 votes

Yeah, because of the RNG oneshot with rift herald buff+crit.

Enlegacy5 votes

Who the hell thinks Zac is an assassin?

Unless he is full AP, then I guess he is.

Zerenza4 votes

A lot more people than you'd expect. A lot, and it's not like they "Mistake" him mister nit picky it's more of they try and bunch the first champs up with the second ones when the seconds ones aren't the issue.

Enlegacy3 votes

The difference is here isn't nit picky. It isn't like pointing out the difference between Diana and an Assassin, which she is a diver due to higher sustained damage yada yada yada, something about little escape chance, no. This isn't the difference between a mule and a donkey, this is the difference between a donkey and a cuttlefish.

Gosh Darn1 votes

Just take Zac off your list. He's a problem but not for the same reason as the others. Even extremely squishy champions can survive his entire kit. It's actually been Zac's biggest balancing peg since his release. He can't carry by himself he carries by making good initiations with his team following up.

Sahn Uzal5 votes

no no no, the complaints refering to divers are ''Tanks OP'' complaints. Just like when people say ''Tanks OP'' when complaining about Juggernauts.

zrWQMdGHtY3 votes

tl;dr

I vote for the first set + diana

Zerenza5 votes

Diana was intended to be a diver XD So it makes sense, she's also got a higher winrate than all the other assassins except Leblanc.

Leblanc's mainly being because she's actually ranged and is easier to play.

dakota saturn2 votes

{quoted}

Diana was intended to be a diver XD So it makes sense, she's also got a higher winrate than all the other assassins except Leblanc.

Leblanc's mainly being because she's actually ranged and is easier to play.

LB's winrate isn't even that good anymore.

Zerenza10 votes

She has the highest of the mid lane assassins at 52.6%, its not amazing but it's the highest.

dakota saturn2 votes

{quoted}

She has the highest of the mid lane assassins at 52.6%, its not amazing but it's the highest.

Where are you getting your data?

Zerenza1 votes

na.op.gg

They update more frequently than Champion.gg

Michael Sykes1 votes

lolalytics is better than both. I recommend that

http://current.lolalytics.com/champion/Leblanc/

newest data is always a bit bugged since every region has different data

Zerenza1 votes

http://na.op.gg/champion/leblanc/statistics/mid

Na.op.ga let's you pick which regions data to go over, NA(North America) is what i'v used currently. Most League websites let you pick which region.

Michael Sykes1 votes

dat random downvote tho

yeah of course, but in general it is more important what the global winrate is, and lolalytics provides you with the information you need. Some champions are stronger in some regions. This happens because of popularity, meta, playstyle etc

zrWQMdGHtY1 votes

ppl say Rengar OP, but I say rengar is a weakling... But Yi is true sickness

NineTailedMystic3 votes

idk Kat and LB are kinda overbearing when played well.

Zerenza3 votes

How many Katlife, Flybek and Voyboy level Katarina player's d you see in your games?

Now compare that to the 30% pick rate of 50% winrate "Hard to play" lee sin.

Or almost 20% pickrate Hecarim and VI that will be doing more one shot's under your tower than any Katarina could. I main katarina, i can't 100-0 someone under tower unless i'm fed af and it's not really easy to do that either.

Leblanc i can admit is overtuned but she's a ranged assassin like Ahri so what do you expect.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Allow me to make an amendment to my statement.

"idk Kat and LB or kinda overbearing when played well, or higher than the skill level of the current game".

Hecarim and Vi are disgusting right now too, but even if they're lesser evils, Kat and LB are still evils.

Kat may be more fair, but she still has the issue of getting 1 kill and not being able to fight her anymore.

Ahri isn't an Assassin.

Zerenza2 votes

Sooooo, your saying that if i go play katarina, as a katarina main, because i am. That once i get 1 kill, no one can fight me? Never has a more untrue statement been said, one kill doesn't mean shit, it's all about CS and overall gold gain. A kill doesn't mean anything, just because i have a kill doesn't mean i'm ahead and in many cases i'm not i can just 1v1 the enemy laner. An assassin should be able to 1v1 the enemy mage or a carry, regardless of how fed they are early-mid because it's their job to. It's not evil, what is evil though is having Vi, Shyvana and Hecarim one shot both bot laner's from 75% HP under tower. Cause lord knows i can't do that with katarina unless i'm an item ahead of everyone else.

Ahri is a Ranged Assassin, she has every tool an assassin has but has it at a range, just like leblance. I notice your an Ahri main so you should probably recognize that.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

It is significantly harder to fight Katarina once she obtains a kill or two. Especially if its a solo kill, which isn't hard with her level 3 all-in cheese as you deny the enemy laner CS and EXP. Kat isn't impossible to fight once she has a kill or two since her Update, but she's still retained a snowball problem from before to which I blame her double dipping on Gunblade's stats. I would know since the last game I played today I won against an apparent Kat main even though I was successfully ganked at level 2.

An Assassin should be able to 1v1 a carry. The key words are should be able, not will guaranteed. That's what the Assassin Update was set to do.

Again, I agreed that the Divers you listed are disgusting right now. Doesn't change how overbearing someone good at Kat or LB can be.

Ahri is a Burst Mage. Has been since 5.2. Wasn't considered for the Assassin Update as she wasn't considered a primary Assassin on top of not finding her needing kit work. I guess if you still use sub-roles she has the Slayer tag, but she's still a primary Mage.

drakuIa4211 votes

kat's damage is insane, you just gotta know the combos and you're good.

LatetotheRace2 votes

Divers are gross, and need to be taken a tier below their assassin counterpart. As that's where they were supposed to be pre-assassin update.

BlueBilberry1 votes

Most of the complaints relate to these guys, if you look closely: Shaco Rengar Katarina Zed Fizz Talon The others in the assassin group tend to be not complained about as much - for example, Nidalee, Kassadin and Ahri don't seem to be major worries. (Heck, people forget that Ahri has been previously considered to be an assassin. :) ) Akali, what used to be one of my favourite assassins as a champion which people have issue with seems to be somewhat muted. Dianna could loosely be placed in the assassin group (if memory serves, she is listed as assassin secondary on the original client - which I can't check at the moment).

I think most of the objections come from the fact that, recently, you can get an assassin which can literally take down your champion in anywhere from one to three hits - with little to no counterplay. If you are playing the game over a slower connection, then the issue of counterplay becomes quite significant.

Zerenza2 votes

I mainly see those champions bunched up with Diver's, it's frustrating because none of the assassins have overbearing winrates or pick rates yet Lee Sin can have a 30% pick rate with an above 50% winrate. That's what i'd consider to be complainable, then we try and bunch Talon(49% winrate) up with him, or katarina who has a 5% pickrate and a on the dot 50% winrate. Rengar's is 51% and Shaco is admittidly really broken right now but next patch has a lot of nerfs comming shaco's way so there will likely be no issue.

It just pains me that assassins are actually doing their job correctly for once and people complain about DIver's AND Assassins when it's the diver's that aren't supposed to be one shotting you under tower.

LBmyBB1 votes

Yeah but lb gets banned a heck lot more than she used to.

Zerenza2 votes

She's a ranged assassin, ranged assassins are really strong, such as Ahri as a prime example.

But leblanc's winrate is only 52%, which means she needs number's adjusting.

Michael Sykes1 votes

it's actually slightly below 50% and increased a bit during the last three days, Ahri has a higher pick&winrate

Zerenza1 votes

http://na.op.gg/champion/leblanc/statistics/mid

It's 52.55% on the North American Servers only.

TheOnlyJoe1 votes

Divers are inherently broken IMO In order to succeed they need to have overloaded kits with most of these:

  • Damage to kill squishy (high base damage)
  • Gapcloser
  • CC
  • Sustain (lifesteal, heal, shield)
  • Bruiser items allowing to dish out damage while being tanky
  • The ability to build bruiser/tanky

Shyvana Damage, gapcloser, cc, armour/mr buff Hecarim Damage, gapcloser, cc, sustain, MS > AD convert Zac Damage (less than the others though), gapcloser, cc, sustain Diana Damage, gapcloser, cc, sustain, utility (reveal), AS steriod Vi Damage, gapcloser, cc, sustain, AS steriod, armour shred, % health damage. LeeSin Damage, gapcloser, cc, sustain, utility (true sight), % missing HP damage, AS steriod, energy refund, target % max HP damage on collision

Zac is by far the one you should worry the least about. His gapcloser (E) can easily be avoided and requires him to charge, while he also doesn't do as much damage as the others

Shyvana is kind of in awkward spot atm. She has no reliable CC or sustain but still manages to function because of her ult gapcloser and overall high damage

Then you have Lee (Assas)Sin, and Vi (die). Those two have nearly everything you'd want on a champion, can kill squishies in 1 rotation, cc, gapcloser, shields, solid DPS while being tanky along with all their other bullshit

Unlucky471 votes

I've mained akali for the past 6 months and I can honestly say this is the weakest assassins have been in a while. It sucks because of all the new support items and meta picks. Not only is it difficult to reliably kill the enemy adc, but it's almost impossible to do that without dying. The crazy amount of shields, healing, and burst damage coming from champions that aren't even assassins is ridiculous. NEWS FLASH: Hecarim can still one shot people with cinderhulk tri-force. I play a lot of vi too and her damage is disgusting with only two damage items. Lee sin has always and will always be lee sin because riot wouldn't dare dream of touching his kit. Not that this is original or anything but assassin's can't do the job they're supposed to be able to do half the time.

Keti1 votes

Khazix is pretty nuts

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