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Let Ohmwrecker's Active debuff champions to ignore their shields

OyddAWqJ5r··53 votes·4,866 views

Note: This is meant as an anti-ADC/squishy item for use when their team has enough shielding (and peel) to turn them into unkillable monsters. This lets the user of this item allow his team to ignore the shield part if he can close the gap to activate it.

By no means does this counter tanks. Tanks can survive 2 seconds without shields and their shields will still be intact afterwards (given their duration is longer than 2 seconds--most are).

item 3056 +300 health +50 armor +150% base health regeneration +10% cooldown reduction (All stats unchanged)

Unique Active: Emits a shockwave that debuffs surrounding enemy champions, causing all damage against them to bypass shield health for 2 seconds. (90 second cooldown) [This effect cannot be reapplied to the same target within 10 seconds]

  • (removed turret effect)
  • Shields that are "disabled" have their duration's paused during the effect

I feel like this would make the item instantly a worthy niche purchase and a great answer in response to shield heavy teams. There's alot of problematic cases of overshielding that this item would allow a possible solution to by allowing tanks to temporarily remove shielding so an Assassin can come do their job without fear of extreme damage mitigation on top of regular getting-to-the-target issues.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Note that this is only to bypass shielding for 2 seconds--it doesn't disable shields. So if the shield has a duration longer than the debuff effect it will remain intact throughout and after the effect. Dw, I ain't just trying to shaft Nautilus Sion Malphite and every Colossus user here (just try not to proc your Colossus if they activate the effect if you value the shield over CC).

I won't lie though, it possibly shafting Yasuo is something I'm totally ok with.

EDIT 2: "Shockwave" size is similar to Righteous Glory's, not Randuin's. Getting a 5 man confirm with this would be highly unlikely (or they just got 5-man Ori ulted--in which case they are most likely dead anyway).

74 Comments

Malicious Metal15 votes

Mordekaiser Oh hell no!

OyddAWqJ5r7 votes

Oh... I don't think Morde's "shield" counts as a shield tho.

Malicious Metal13 votes

Still, Riot doesn't like items to completely invalidate a champion's kit. That's why they changed QSS to not cleanse Morde/Zed/Trundle/Fiora ultimates and generally don't like introducing items that take away a champion's strength.

OyddAWqJ5r4 votes

Idk. I can't really see a case in which this wouldn't be balanced though.

FantasySniper1 votes

I agree with you there. No one actually gets a sheild big enough from a long CD ability that it will invalidate their power. If anything, it takes LotIR down a notch, but that's not a big deal considering it only pauses the duration and doesn't completely erase it.

Hawkefire6 votes

Well grevious wounds still exist, and that is extremely detrimental to sustain champs. That and this is an active effect (unlike grievous wounds), and would most likely have a fairly short duration. It would probably take quite a bit of fiddling to get the duration just right, but I think it is doable in a way that isn't overly oppressive.

Also, it can have a fairly interesting effect on nautilus and sion, because their shields have special effects of while active (nautilus's on hit effect and sions shield explosion)

Edit: also, because the active tends to be on the reactionary side, that also limits it's effectiveness, and it would most likely have a fairly long cooldown.

Saianna2 votes

Still, Riot doesn't like items to completely invalidate a champion's kit.

item 3814 item 3156 vs mages item 3147 item 2055 and few others vs teemo/Shaco

Fly Fish Master1 votes

item 3814 and item 3156 don't invalidate champion's kits (Ok, Edge of Knight does shaft Karthus alot, but you should just try to bait out the shield with something else).

item 3147 and item 2055 COMPLETELY cuck Shaco and Teemo.

Saianna1 votes

in first case that amount of MR (along with magic shield and spellshield) is beyond stupid on assassins.

I withnessed how assassins (and ADCs) just ignored any damage dealt to them by mages, killed them then just left like nothing happend.

It totally counters mages with no hard CC (to either escape or burst target down)

Melledoneus4 votes

Shen Well, there goes my ult.

OyddAWqJ5r4 votes

item 3056 Shen Ult shield duration: 5 seconds => 3 seconds

Avios11 votes

Kled I feel you.

Iwinatlife426 votes

I dont even use courage of the colossus but this woul hurt my taric shield build sooo nooooo

OyddAWqJ5r8 votes

Just so you know, bypass for 3 seconds won't hurt ya too much. It doesn't remove shielding so any shields that were active prior to the effect remain intact while debuffed but don't absorb damage til after the 3 seconds is over.

Also it requires the opposing Tank to get close enough to essentially cause a teamfight to break out and blow the active on it so if a fight doesn't actually happen when they use it then you don't have to worry about it.

Iwinatlife423 votes

what about when a Darius catches my allied ashe and I slam all the shield buttons to soak the damage and prevent the ult kill and reset and he hard counters 2 of my items and 1 of my abilities with one button.

OyddAWqJ5r8 votes

Then he counterbuilt correctly. But I don't think a Darius that spent his gold on item 3056 instead of item 3071 is gonna be doing much damage.

Also how is Darius catching Ashe in the first place? :o

Edit: Or if you can keep her alive for 3 seconds then shields will be up and functioning again (so stun that boi!)

It Hertz When IP4 votes

Never ask how an ADC manages to get caught out, you'll just get cancer hearing the explanation.

NightmareAmazoX1 votes

HAHAHAH agreed^

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

This statement is far too true

Ralanr8 votes

Why not just make it 2 seconds? 3 seconds would basically make much of the keystone useless and you know people will save the item for the biggest shields.

OyddAWqJ5r5 votes

Makes sense

IS1c1c176269cfdf4 votes

I feel like this is a good idea, shields have become quite massive in numbers, especially since Collosus, and are basically uncounterable. However, I think it's probably too powerful as an AoE. Instead of making it a debuff, I think it'd be better to have it as a buff on yourself, making all your damage bypass shields. Also makes it a lot simpler to use. Just keep the stats on the item low/slot inefficient, so it does not become a staple on assassins, but remains a niche pick.

OyddAWqJ5r4 votes

I don't think any Tank that built that would really be trying to use it. The version in the OP is moreso an effect to allow instant bursting of a squishy target. A tank dealing health damage to an ADC doesn't mean much if he still has a big chunk of untouched shielding that allies have to get through.

I was thinking that it had plenty of active gameplay associated with the effect since the primary target for this debuff would be the ADC whom requires some effort for alot of tanks to be able to get to. So the reward for doing so would be allowing your allies and yourself to ignore the shields.

It's basically like an anti-Janna thing I guess haha.

Sckullzz2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aRIc040k,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-12-05T17:34:31.721+0000)

I don't think any Tank that built that would really be trying to use it. The version in the OP is moreso an effect to allow instant bursting of a squishy target. A tank dealing health damage to an ADC doesn't mean much if he still has a big chunk of untouched shielding that allies have to get through.

I was thinking that it had plenty of active gameplay associated with the effect since the primary target for this debuff would be the ADC whom requires some effort for alot of tanks to be able to get to. So the reward for doing so would be allowing your allies and yourself to ignore the shields.

It's basically like an anti-Janna thing I guess haha.

Also a great anti-bloodthirster shield... Especially if they have item 3085 as well.

Muddafragot4 votes

You had better not activate that around Nautilus or Sion, cuz I don't think their shields work like you think they work.

Shadragon1 votes

This. Sion doesn't use his shield for the pathetic health increase it gives. Sion uses his shield for the AoE 14% max health nuke.

It Hertz When IP1 votes

If anything this would be a buff to Sion, preventing his shield from being popped before he has a chance to detonate it.

Plague24273 votes

I like the concept, overshielding has become a problem for assasins and it would give a purpose to the otherwise unused Ohmwrecker. However, I think something such as reducing shielding effectiveness instead of a bypass is more fair (think grievous wounds to counter healing). The tower fry effect would have to be scrapped as the new active gives it an entirely different purpose.

kile1472 votes

Does 50% unmitigated damage to all active shields upon activation? If a target has a 500 hp shield then the active will deal 250 damage, if they have 100 hp shield it deals 50.

Sckullzz1 votes

{quoted}

Does 50% unmitigated damage to all active shields upon activation? If a target has a 500 hp shield then the active will deal 250 damage, if they have 100 hp shield it deals 50.

I like this idea! It still accomplishes the anti-shield goal, but also doesn't straight hard counter it either. But how would this interact with ABILITY shields like Nocturne and Sivir ?

kile1472 votes

Probably not pop them and not deal damage. Unlike hpshields spellshields can't be stacked, they are either on or off so no way to soft counter them, and tend to have long cooldowns. Spellshields and invulnerability are like the %hp true damage of defense, where you have to counterplay, not counterbuild.

Roit Gums3 votes

Sounds like a good idea, but i feel like there is a lot of items that ignore stats on tanks, why not turn in into an anti - adc item

OyddAWqJ5r3 votes

Oh nono that was my intention entirely. For tanks to get close to the enemy ADC, activate it, and then allow their team to deal unmitigated damage to the ADC that may have otherwise had Janna item 3072 item 3097 Karma etc. shielding them--allowing Assassins or Mages and whatnot to deal with the enemy ADC with much more ease.

the weeaboo3 votes

Rip Bloodthirster. May the Deaths Dance meta begin

Ralanr3 votes

Wouldn't this hurt Kled a lot since Skaarl is basically a shield?

Granted there's a bunch of coding issues.

Drahcir3 votes

last i heard skaarls health counts for titanic hydra, suggesting it works differently to shields.

Z Statistic2 votes

Actually, it would be better for the Active to do the following:

Deals 10+5*lvl magical damage to a single target. This spells gains 100% magic penetration against shields and damage to shields is increased by 400%. Residual damage is affected by magic resistance as normal.

Shields are very powerful, but if we're going to make them harder to use, the counterplay needs to be harder as well, like in the case of QSS.

Terchio2 votes

Sounds like an anti-bait mechanic. Like those TahmKench s that hold off on shield until the last bit of health is left, to get the fullest effect out of it. Shields are already pathetic enough, in my opinion, because it's basically a heal with a limited duration, and without the protection against assassination skills like Elise spider Q, LeeSin Q, Nidalee cougar Q, Darius R, Riven R, Ekko W passive, and plenty others. No need to invalidate shields further, in my opinion.

Baiting is already a risky technique. No need to make it useless.

Also, if an ADC is that much a thorn in your side, the shield probably isn't even a problem, it's the lifesteal. Might turn the tide occasionally, but realistically, the main cases where this truly helps is when the ADC purposely builds less overbearing in order to survive more, like summoner 21 instead of summoner 1 , item 3072 maybe, item 3053 , or item 3156. If they build these items, they will probably survive longer against me, but they'll also not be quite as potent as item 3031 item 3085 item 3087 item 3142 item 3139 item 3006 .

I will admit, though, current Ohmwrecker counters another overly-countered mechanic, that in turret protection. Not at all defending the current layout of the item.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

It isn't about taking the ADC's shields away from it. It's about taking their allies' shields away from him.

Because this exists KogMaw Lulu Janna Shen

chipndip12 votes

Better idea: Make it a point-n-click toggle that auto-damages a shield or all shields in a small radius. Rather than ignoring a shield and seriously slashing a champ's effectiveness through one item (especially nearly any enchantress), it can just do a decent amount of damage to existing shields, so as to eat through them faster.

FalconPawwwwnch2 votes

This is actually a really good idea

We need some ways to deal with shields currently

Lord Desert2 votes

Lets work out some scenarios: vs Janna, Karma, Tahm, Morde, Shen. Those have shields with some different meaning then just so small shield on a 4k hp tank. Technicly morganas shield is bypassed, but i assume the "cant be cced" is still activ while the shield gets bypassed.

Ok, lets look at Janna: Janna is a peeling monster. Her R provides knockback while her e gives fast survivalbility. If a tanky diver/tank support, manages to get close enough to use the activ, they and the rest of the team will be knocked away, thus will not be able to make use of the "by pass" duration, since they are not in range/cced. Only something like olaf would make use out of this.

Karma: Karma is a high team mobility champ. If you manage to get close enough for the activ, the hole team will get speed up. So your dmg carrys will also not be able to make use of it. Only if you have a heavy CC chain (malphite ult + ori ult or so) then your carrys may can make use of it. But you normaly dont have a high range cc lockdown, or the squshiys will already die from the dmg of these and the activ was technicly not needed. ** Tahm**: Tahm is a rather special case. He actives his shield only if he has basicly no hp left. He does not have escapes or movements speed, so you can stay on his butt. This item technicly completly removes everything tahm is balanced around. He does not have mobility but huge ass survivability because of his shield. But if you can simply by pass that with an item, that is not so good. Riot nerfed QSS because it was a direkt counter to some stuff, Your item directly counters tahm, and not just a small counter it completly destroys him. So you have my word that your item will never be introduced into lol. Atleast not in this state.

Morde: This would also heavily nerf morde since he is also heavy balanced around getting lost of shields. The 2sec duration might be not super bad, but is still is a rather big nerf. Special if you have long range dmg in your team so the tank locks morde down while the carrys burst him. ** Shen:** Shen is famous for safing his teammate globaly at lvl6. further into the game his shield becomes pretty big, and he gives himself quiet alot of shields. But this item will completly screw his ult making it useless. It is balanced around the time he needs before he arives. If you can destroy shens shield and the rest of the enemys hp then he ult was wasted. But if he ults and his huge shield gets nullifed for a small timeframe his ally is guaranteed to die before he arives. This also is a very big counter to shen. ** vs adcs/Squishys:** You basicly destroy shield based sups/tanks but how effectiv is this vs the adcs/sqhishys, the ones that you want to target? There are 2 very effectiv ways to kill squishys/adcs.

  1. cc lock them
  2. burst them

A cc locked adc is dead if he does not have QSS. The small extra shields will be taken with or without the ohmwreckers activ they will not change the outcome, so the ohmwrecker activ is useless.

Burst is a little different, it depends on the total dmg and the timewindow. A big window makes shielding possible, but high total dmg still negates the shielding. So only if the "burst" is predictable (an engage) and the amount of it is not high enough to kill the squishy and then the tank that has this item and can get near the squishys. Then and only then, will this item be usefull. And only engage tanks (senju, amumu, zac, malp etc) or engage sup (leona, ali etc.) would buy this.

#To sum it up:

Nice idea, but it totaly breaks certain champs and the target audience does not increase. To atleast not break certain champions, the "shield bypass" should be changed to ether shield are only ~40-50% effectiv on the target or shields take 2times the dmg.

This item would max. only be bought to counter shen, tahm, morde, karma and that is a) unfair for them and b) way to small of a reason to make this item. Lastly Ohmwrecker basic identity is interacting with towers. Changing/removing that will not happen, only if theres no other way! They would rather introduce a new item then stripping such a unique thing away.

Yes i know Ohmwrecker is not in a good state currently but i dont think that this would be the right way. There are serval post/discussions about Ohmwrecker. Even i did only recently a post about this item. If you want to check it out heres the link Here

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Let's work out the scenarios you worked out! Round 2!

Janna Janna is a peeling monster. Her R provides knockback while her e gives fast survivalbility. If a tanky diver/tank support, manages to get close enough to use the activ, they and the rest of the team will be knocked away, thus will not be able to make use of the "by pass" duration, since they are not in range/cced. Only something like olaf would make use out of this.

Bait out the ult. Not too hard just literally be threatening like normal and the ult will happen. Just don't blow the active before she blows ult. Simple nuff.

Karma Karma is a high team mobility champ. If you manage to get close enough for the activ, the hole team will get speed up. So your dmg carrys will also not be able to make use of it. Only if you have a heavy CC chain (malphite ult + ori ult or so) then your carrys may can make use of it. But you normaly dont have a high range cc lockdown, or the squshiys will already die from the dmg of these and the activ was technicly not needed.

Then don't buy the item unless the conditions for usability of it are met. Just like how you don't buy item 3035 if the enemy isn't building armor, don't buy item 3056 if you have no way of using it.

TahmKench Tahm is a rather special case. He actives his shield only if he has basicly no hp left. He does not have escapes or movements speed, so you can stay on his butt. This item technicly completly removes everything tahm is balanced around. He does not have mobility but huge ass survivability because of his shield. But if you can simply by pass that with an item, that is not so good. Riot nerfed QSS because it was a direkt counter to some stuff, Your item directly counters tahm, and not just a small counter it completly destroys him. So you have my word that your item will never be introduced into lol. Atleast not in this state.

If your team's main objective is to focus the tank then sure, I guess you got him? Idk. In most games I find that focusing the tank isn't a good option. Realistically there will only be 3 people max targeting him meaning that if the item 3056 user is targeting him as well then he can pop his shield earlier so they use it while he still gets to use his shield later once the active ends since his shield duration will not have depleted at all. Only downside is a smaller shield once it is active compared to the best case scenario no health last minute shield.

Mordekaiser This would also heavily nerf morde since he is also heavy balanced around getting lost of shields. The 2sec duration might be not super bad, but is still is a rather big nerf. Special if you have long range dmg in your team so the tank locks morde down while the carrys burst him.

This one is simple. Morde's passive shield would be excluded. Which wouldn't be confusing at all since it uses the resource bar instead of the health bar--allowing you to easily differentiate if it's his passive shield or an actual shield.

Shen Shen is famous for safing his teammate globaly at lvl6. further into the game his shield becomes pretty big, and he gives himself quiet alot of shields. But this item will completly screw his ult making it useless. It is balanced around the time he needs before he arives. If you can destroy shens shield and the rest of the enemys hp then he ult was wasted. But if he ults and his huge shield gets nullifed for a small timeframe his ally is guaranteed to die before he arives. This also is a very big counter to shen.

Other than normal counterplay by not letting the user get close enough to use it I really don't know for this case. But hey if they can survive for 2 seconds after being affected then they will have the massive shield. If not, well, that's what happens when a squishy gets caught out.

vs adcs/Squishys: You basicly destroy shield based sups/tanks but how effectiv is this vs the adcs/sqhishys, the ones that you want to target? There are 2 very effectiv ways to kill squishys/adcs.

cc lock them burst them A cc locked adc is dead if he does not have QSS. The small extra shields will be taken with or without the ohmwreckers activ they will not change the outcome, so the ohmwrecker activ is

KogMaw Janna {{champion:117} or basically just Janna honestly. She's never really had a true counter before. Ofc ADC's don't really have shields of their own accord.

#To sum it up

It could possibly break Shen, and to a lesser extent Tahm, but that's bout it most likely. You're probably right on the tower things tho.

Also QSS exists and does remove this effect since it is a debuff.

I'm by no means saying you didn't bring up valid points. They are each and all very valid I was just stating what in my opinion would be the most appropriate counterplay in each situation. Pretty detailed analysis I'll check yours out in a sec.

Maximum Morde1 votes

Noty. They would have to rebalance so many champions it would be rediculous.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

For a small-radii AoE effect that allows direct health damaging for all of 2 seconds on a 90 second cooldown?

I really doubt it.

SirHeavyScrotum1 votes

Sounds awesome, some balance issues like Morde or Yas of course but it would be WAY better than the current active. Still keeps the theme of diving as well.

Iźuku Midoriya2 votes

i dont think it should work against morde, itd be kind of busted

agbudar1 votes

total garbage idea to be honest

it completely guts every champion that has a shield the ones that abuse Collosus were problematic champions before Collosus came to the game Collosos breaks them further into super sonic OP levels

Vi for example simply needs nerfs the way she is in this meta. the whole idea of shields is to bait out burst thats why they have short durations to begin with 95% of all the shields in this game have a duration of 5 seconds or less

Denims Wrath6661 votes

i just wish it was like the old fortify... can be used offensively you know? like instead of just stopping enemy turrets, you should be able to temp buff your own turret... if we wanted to get technical and slightly copy fortify... the ohm wrecker should do extra minion damage too.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

They tried this.

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