I wish gragas wasn't as popular as he is.

Succubús GF·Aug 25, 2017·56 votes·3,450 views

He just has so much visual "bug". I put it in quotes because at this point, hella seasons in, he still has the same cheesey shit in his kit. I feel like it just isn't fun to play against him. Solo lane is bullshit because his all in is so stupidly good. If he builds damage you get bursted, if he goes tanky you cant kill him and he will still kill you, but slower. I see him so frequently and it is never not annoying. People say his abilities are telegraphed but I don't really think so, that e flash isn't at all telegraphed bc that hitbox, for whatever reason is a "trick". It just feels like he was so popular for so long because he has a lot of forgiving gimmicks. Ones that enemies don't anticipate.

71 Comments

bbQsauçeAug 25, 201722 votes

[deleted]

MelledoneusAug 25, 201779 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aKEIRNq5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-08-25T19:33:21.273+0000)

He needs to lose something.

Weight...?

AFilthyCaitMainAug 25, 201729 votes

SPITS OUT TEA

A Superb VillainAug 26, 20172 votes

https://68.media.tumblr.com/73f0f061c81aca76edc4f57e798e07ba/tumblr_mzf5jo6Lxg1ql99t0o1_400.gif

ganggoinkAug 26, 20172 votes

Cringe

Velzard of KozAug 25, 20175 votes

That basically means his hitbox would be fixed and many people would unjokingly welcome that.

OHminusAug 25, 20175 votes

Addressing his alcohol addiction would have to come first.

quietly slips Gragas a note with the address of the nearest AA meeting

EII 4w5 EnbyAug 26, 20171 votes

"The only time I have a drinking problem is when I spill it!" ~ Gragas

Hello I am BirdAug 25, 201713 votes

Bullshit "Insane mobility" He has a dash that is interrupted by fucking everything. If he hits a minion, a jungle monster, a champion, that dash is donzo. Also, the exact same thing could be said about Sejuani minus the zoning, but is she broken, nooooo. Listing a champion's strengths without mentioning any of their weaknesses is something this board really needs to stop doing, because it makes champions seem overloaded when they really aren't.

parrot6632Aug 26, 20171 votes

Grag's weakness off the top of my head are a slow jungle clear early mana problems and huge reliance on flash to engage

doesn't really outweigh his strengths atm but he does have weakness

LankPantsAug 26, 20175 votes

Also, the exact same thing could be said about Sejuani minus the zoning, but is she broken, nooooo.

She's completely broken right now. Take it from someone who mains her, Sejuani post rework is utterly broken by design.

SegiusAug 26, 20171 votes

Looking at statistics he's right, she has a 52% winrate with 11% banrate

However we don't see her a lot, seeing as she only has a 1.2%ish pickrate

ShadowParkerAug 26, 20177 votes

I hate this argument.

But please, keep listing all his strengths and make him seem overpowered as shit.

Not like you can do the exact same argument for EVERYOTHER champion.

DivewingAug 26, 20171 votes

You probably can, but most won't have a list that long

zaire90Aug 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aKEIRNq5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-08-25T19:33:21.273+0000)

Gragas is stupidly overloaded, tanky, high base dmg, insane mobility, insane catch potential, lockdown, AoE dmg, AoE CC, Zoning. He needs to lose something.

I don't like gragas either but insane mobility is too much he has one mobility spell that isnt that long of a range without flash

Eternal TormentAug 25, 20175 votes

What can we say? Can you resist the Pimplord? I mean look at dat hair, the firm chest, dem abs. the perfect beard.

ok jokes aside, yeah, gragas has about as many visual bugs as mordekaiser just because of his E

SanKakUAug 25, 20175 votes

Gragas is basically the AP version of Lee Sin, so don't expect Riot to be throwing out meaningful nerfs on him.

waiting for WoWAug 25, 20174 votes

I don't understand why people got so mad over Zac when Gragas has been batshit broken for over 10 patches.

There is absolutely no counterplay in being flash bodyslammed and then casked, and it's like 99% effective in securing a kill everytime, I've legit never seen it fail as long as he can hit the flash bodyslam. Like I get that Gragas is fat and shit but god damn put some skill into having to hit his E.

woodvsmurphAug 25, 201715 votes

Which requires FLASH. Which as a FIVE MINUTE cooldown. Versus: Zac, which requires his E. Which has SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN a FIVE MINUTE cooldown.[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

StarboyˇAug 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Which requires FLASH. Which as a FIVE MINUTE cooldown. Versus: Zac, which requires his E. Which has SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN a FIVE MINUTE cooldown.[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Zac does less damage and his ult isn't as reliable as graggy

AFK PushAug 27, 20171 votes

There is a reason why zac is permabanned and gragas isn't.

woodvsmurphAug 27, 20171 votes

It isn't about the damage, but rather the cc they both offer. Grag ult doesn't kill people; grag ult isolating a carry in a 1v5 vs the entire enemy team kills people. Same with zac ult. And grag ult alone isn't going to succeed at that in most elo's in most cases. It requires a good bodyslam or some other cc to set it up. And usually that bodyslam comes with a flash to extend the range. And usually flashing can't be done every dozen seconds or so like zac e.

KloqdqAug 25, 20173 votes

Meddler says they will probably look at fixing his hitbox and removing his E-Flash combo to stop him from building full tank. That would be a blessing if it happens. Said it would happen after the worlds patch.

Succubús GFAug 25, 20173 votes

So they'll keep it until after worlds/? Seems fitting for revenue -~-

KloqdqAug 25, 20179 votes

Well from what I understand they don't want to throw a wrench into the pro scene right before the biggest event for all the teams. It's why ornn isn't enabled for pro play because they need more time to look at him.

I understand this mind set because it would be like adding a new rule for hockey the week before the stanley cup that changes massively how the players will play and approach the game.

It is only for a couple of patches and many of the buffs/nerfs are aimed at pro-play. Gragas is such a big player in pro that changing him now would massively change the pro players game plan and force them to rapidly adapt to it. Hell it isn't even good for revenue to keep Gragas as is. No one cares to see him for the 1000000+ game in pro anymore. Why the hell keep something that people hate to see? Oh it's because the pros would be majorly boned if a massive change suddenly hit them.

Oakleaf RangerAug 25, 20171 votes

how exactly is getting rid of his e flash combo going to stop him from building full tank? I mean he is a tank what else would u expect him to build?

Wet DrymanAug 25, 20171 votes

He wasn't supposed to be a Tank, intention of his rework was to be AP Fighter (building both AP and Tank items). He is played as a Tank in high elo because he can reliably initiate from 2 screens away and survive that no problem with building full tank. Also if his Flash is on cooldown he can reliably disrupt multiple people with E and survive long enough to do that several times, with reducing AoE of his E his disruption won't be as effective and to do something impactful he will need to buy damage.

Oakleaf RangerAug 25, 20172 votes

Well I never thought of him as anything else but a tank. His DPS is too low for that of a fighter for sure and his kit and ratios don't support that of someone who would build AP.

FYI I'm not against the E hitbox changes people want, just the idea that anyone would who isn't trolling would build him AP or like a battle mage. Just cause he has magic damage and AP ratios doesn't mean he is a fighter.

Wet DrymanAug 25, 20171 votes

Fighter doesn't have to be pure DPS (look at J4, Lee Sin and Vi who all have burst damage pattern with autoattacks serving as sustained damage in frontline skirmishes with attack speed buff), Gragas can have sort of sustained damage too with W max since it has low CD on max levels and CDR can act as equivalent (dunno how to spell that, lol) to attack speed and since it's hp % damage it's working perfectly for being a frontline.

Gragas ratios are pretty good (he has 60% on his Q, E and 70% on R it's standard for Mages though Mages have more damaging spells or conditions that make them apply even more damage).

Oakleaf RangerAug 26, 20171 votes

Those are divers which all have some means of finishing off a target once they get on them. The have a trade off though that if they cant finish off their target after that it probably means they are going to die. They aren't built for long haul fight the same way tanks are like Gragas.

That's part of what makes Gragas so good is that his damage early to mid game can match that of a diver but trades that for the sustained damage of a tank later on.

Wet DrymanAug 26, 20171 votes

Have you ever seen AP Build Gragas and what can he do? Diana works similarly and she is AP Fighter (no, she isn't assassin since Season 4). Gragas is "built" for long fights because he builds tanky as shit and can survive long enough to apply multiple spell rotations, it doesn't necessarily work when you're squishier, his whole playstyle changes depending on build.

It's one of the parts that make him good but what makes him a Tank currently is just E Flash interaction. No other Tank has as reliable and devastating engage but when his Flash is on cooldown every other Vanguard has better engage (with the exception of maybe Sion).

Oakleaf RangerAug 26, 20171 votes

I have seen AP gragas before but it falls and/or fails later on like all tank champions who build damage instead of tank. Once they cant burst someone in one rotation they get blown up because of how squishy and dangerously close they have to be to use their rotation.

Wet DrymanAug 26, 20171 votes

And that's typical powerspike Fighter champions (with some exceptions), most of them are early to mid game champions and they suck in late but they aren't entirely useless due to being able to soak some of damage and bring utility (J4 shreds armor and gives attack speed buff to his allies, Kled brings the most powerful MS boost in the game and Gragas can make up for it with the most powerful displacement tool in the game).

Full AP Gragas sucks if you can't end quickly that's fact, but if you're building tanky your damage output easily competes with most of the Diver roster and you can function as a frontline due to damage reduction and W spam.

JJI744Aug 26, 20171 votes

He has a total of 3.1 AP ratio. (Please note Q has a 1.5 when charged). For Comparison, Lux has a 2.65+.2 per passive proc. 3.05 realisticly.

A lot of people at high ELO (Not so much the pro scene though) go the AP jungle item into full tank.

EDIT: And .6 of Lux's is on a sheild.

KloqdqAug 26, 20171 votes

Pretty much this. If people can't have super powerful engage they will need to build up his damage and push him away from full tank.

Maligaro SpikeAug 26, 20171 votes

he was building ap fighter until this meta came, his usual build was runic echoes into iceborn.

BlåbæretAug 25, 20173 votes

He's popular because he's overpowered. He got nerfed and no one played him. He's a cancerous champion no one enjoys playing, but people still want freelo so he has a high pick rate.

OHminusAug 25, 20171 votes

...I enjoy playing him. I used to build him AP, and I still did a bit in season 6 (Runic Echoes + Iceborn + MAYBE RoA into tank), but season 7 changes have made him a no fun tank that builds cinderhulk, knight's vow, righteous glory (I don't mind this one too much), Locket, and Stoneplate.

One of the most fun things on Gragas is the throw out q, e in, ulti the opponent into the q, and full burst that way. He's enjoyable.

Maligaro SpikeAug 26, 20171 votes

he's pretty flashy and cool to play i wouldn't call him boring

HeartPalpitationAug 26, 20172 votes

Oh boy i guess gragas is the next in line for the boards circle jerk of "OMG NERF X CHAMPION BECAUSE HE"S OP OMG" guess we can safely say gragas is ganna be gutted because they love giving into the boards circle jerks.

Succubús GFAug 26, 20173 votes

Because he has a fucked up hitbox? Because he has seen pro play like lee sin and one got nerfed and one didnt? Oh boy youre logic really fell through the cracks

13900 EssenceAug 26, 20172 votes

As a Gragas main I'm all for nerfing/fixing his E hitbox.

It being large both hinders the enemy and whoever plays gragas at the same time. He can hit minions behind him, if he is going to gank.

woodvsmurphAug 25, 20171 votes

You don't all-in him from full hp. You stay out of his barrel range while farming - so he has to barrel you (without letting it charge up to full damage) or the minions. This saves you taking a ton of free damage. He maxes w, so he has good burst and short trading potential, but longer trades hurt for him unless you continue to where he gets to use w a second time. He is mana reliant which can be abused. Poke him down slowly over and over and over. Either he will run out of mana or run out of hp and have to either recall or die.

ThefrostyvikingAug 25, 20171 votes

Except most grags kinda just like walk around minions, then the moment you get in range they throw the barrel, E-flash to force as much damage as possible then they casket you away behind them and repeat the process.

His CC chain is made ridiculous because of his E hitbox, the fairly short CD at later stages with CDR and when he hits someone.

You can't run away and you can't really fight him.

And that buggy as hell E hitbox.

Wet DrymanAug 25, 20171 votes

The problem is that Gragas removes any interaction attempts with his hard CC on E, his burst won't be a problem if someone when hit by him can use his autos/spells when he is near them as he has long CDs untill he gets 20% CDR.

ThefrostyvikingAug 25, 20171 votes

And his E actually ignores a lot of CC too doesnt it? I don't remember exactly though-

And CDR is so cheap that it doesn't really take long for him to get 20% either, regardless of going tank or AP.

Wet DrymanAug 25, 20171 votes

The thing I suspect about ignoring CC is that his AoE is so ridiculously big that champion like Poppy can't even reach him while he dashes to apply her CC. The thing it intentionally does is stopping dashes, that's the nature of displacement CC.

CDR wouldn't be much of a problem from my experience if Gragas wouldn't just had a safety of his reliable hard CC on his E (his early damage is pretty stupid because of high base damage but it falls of pretty quickly if built full tank or with only one AP item), CDR helps him in not being binary (I hit and destroyed them or I missed and I'm useless for next 9 seconds) but currently it's I may missed but here I go again in 4 seconds removing you from game for 1.2 second while I'm dumping my full combo on you and you can't do anything about it.

If his E applied only slow then a hit person has many opportunities to do something like retaliate with spells/autos or try to flash, dash out of that hellhole, hell slowed person can even move a little to change slightly direction of Grag's ult displacement for more favorable or just plain up use that spell for your own advantage (being displaced to safe position and kill people from range). Gragas on the other hand may try to predict that shit, that's interactivity.

woodvsmurphAug 27, 20171 votes

By mid game, gragas deals approximately 0 damage to tanks and bruisers. If you are a squishy, you screwed up or got outplayed to be in said scenario... or your teammates left you out to dry. Early game, he hurts sure, but almost everyone deals decent base damage in toplane. And if you avoid his q's on the minion wave when he's farming so you don't tank free damage, you avoid the scenario of chain cc you describe. And he will have to auto or use w and e on the wave to actually last-hit. Which is when you can nail him with aa's and spells. Who are you playing as that you can't escape and can't fight him?

ThefrostyvikingAug 27, 20171 votes

I was thinking of midlane AP grag xD

Altho he has the handicap of being a crier when faced with long range, but shorter range vs grag is pure misery.

When he jungle's i only have issue´s with his E and the absurd hitbox, i actually saw a grag dash past someone for the full length and he still stunned 2 people that tried to stop him with it.

Both just stood on the sides of the way he ran and both somehow got CC'ed and took the damage while he ran away, just another day in bugs town.