Both runes are on the same power level, with grasp being stronger in lane and conq scaling better vs armor.
So why is only conqueror being nerfed? Do riot want us to back to grasp for every top laner?
MrFawknSunshine5 votesconqueror dont scale vs armor its true damage from lvl 1 and gives scaling ad
Rexxiee2 votesconqueror dont scale vs armor its true damage from lvl 1 and gives scaling ad
So what? Grasp still beats it in lane, and in fact grasp champs have higher wrs than conqueror champs.
A great example being garen, which his main keystone is grasp at 53% wr, meanwhile darius at 48% wr with conqueror.
MrFawknSunshine1 votesok so what about darius with conqueror vs darius with grasp which champ wins?
i promise you darius with conqueror wins that.
garen having a higher win rate isnt the keystone, its more then that. garen has great sustain in lane, no mana, free armor and mr on W. but alot of garens are going predator
Draconian5652 votesIt's not that Grasp is infinitely stronger. It's existed for 3 seasons and Hash just started complaining about it this season. What makes Grasp strong is the Resolve tree. That entire tree is made for sustain - Bone Plating (pushed it over the top just by existing), Second Wind, and Overgrowth/Unflinching.
If Grasp really was the problem, it would have shown in past seasons. The only thing that's changed is the fact that u get 3-5 health per stack. You only walk away with maybe 200 health after laning phase if you aren't bashing your face on the keyboard 24/7, which Conq will delete as the game goes on.
Rexxiee2 votesIt's not that Grasp is infinitely stronger. It's existed for 3 seasons and Hash just started complaining about it this season. What makes Grasp strong is the Resolve tree. That entire tree is made for sustain - Bone Plating (pushed it over the top just by existing), Second Wind, and Overgrowth/Unflinching.
If Grasp really was the problem, it would have shown in past seasons. The only thing that's changed is the fact that u get 3-5 health per stack. You only walk away with maybe 200 health after laning phase if you aren't bashing your face on the keyboard 24/7, which Conq will delete as the game goes on.
What? Hashinshin didnt complain about it before because it was a lot weaker (it was nerfed a lot in the past), why do you think he complain about it now? BECAUSE IT WAS TRIPLE BUFFED
How can you bullshit like that? Grasp was triple buffed with season 8.
They buffed its damage, health gain AND added infinite hp scaling into it, literally a triple buff to a keystone that wasant exactly weak before s8, thats why its one if not strongest keystone in the game now, specially in the laning phase.
Draconian5651 votesWhat? Hashinshin didnt complain about it before because it was a lot weaker (it was nerfed a lot in the past), why do you think he complain about it now? BECAUSE IT WAS TRIPLE BUFFED
How can you bullshit like that? Grasp was triple buffed with season 8.
They buffed its damage, health gain AND added infinite hp scaling into it, literally a triple buff to a keystone that wasant exactly weak before s8, thats why its one if not strongest keystone in the game now, specially in the laning phase.
3% -> 4% damage and 1.5% -> 2% (I'll admit, this I didn't know) - do let me know how much that 1% increase matter after factoring in 25% magic reduction. The heal is nice though.
Infinite health stacking, I've already addressed and say that it's averages around 200, maybe 300, health max (40 procs in a 12 minute laning phase). If you left a champion to AA a dummy in practice tool, you'd only get 15 procs of Grasp per minute, 75 health. At 40 minutes, 3k health. But let's say the enemy isn't a moron and lets you do that in a real game. You average maybe 2-3 Grasp procs per minute in laning phase, maybe less. Grasp is pretty shit outside of laning phase, in exchange for the build off. In teamfights, you'll get maybe 2 procs off. Great.
At least Conqueror has viability outside of laning phase since it's actively pumping out true damage consistently and not once every 4 seconds.
One is for laning, one is for mid-game and when they actually get items. Everything has weaknesses and strengths.
Rexxiee2 votes3% -> 4% damage and 1.5% -> 2% (I'll admit, this I didn't know) - do let me know how much that 1% increase matter after factoring in 25% magic reduction. The heal is nice though.
Infinite health stacking, I've already addressed and say that it's averages around 200, maybe 300, health max (40 procs in a 12 minute laning phase). If you left a champion to AA a dummy in practice tool, you'd only get 15 procs of Grasp per minute, 75 health. At 40 minutes, 3k health. But let's say the enemy isn't a moron and lets you do that in a real game. You average maybe 2-3 Grasp procs per minute in laning phase, maybe less. Grasp is pretty shit outside of laning phase, in exchange for the build off. In teamfights, you'll get maybe 2 procs off. Great.
At least Conqueror has viability outside of laning phase since it's actively pumping out true damage consistently and not once every 4 seconds.
One is for laning, one is for mid-game and when they actually get items. Everything has weaknesses and strengths.
So you understood that both grasp and conqueror are similar power level wise, yet only one of them is being nerfed.
Draconian5652 votesI'm saying one is strictly for laning phase (Grasp) and one is for both laning phase and teamfights or skirmishes with 2-3 people (Conqueror). Conqueror's loss of 4 damage literally does not affect Conq users fighting ability unless they're monkeying Lv1 or unless they're capitalizing on getting Lv2 first.
It's 4 AD. It's not nerfing the true damage part, which is where the bulk of the damage should be coming from. IIRC, Fervor of battle gave 8 AD Lv1 if you got 4 AAs off. 10 AD Lv1 already surpasses that, which shouldn't be the case if it scales so well with the true damage.