No ganks till 6 junglers getting rolling even slower this season? Early game only meta incomming?

Weasel Kensei··4 votes·794 views

So far Iv noticed my time in the jungle is off to a slower start, the having to back to get the other half of my "basic" jungling item, then backing again to get a mid tier item; such as item 3706 , then backing a 3rd time, maybe 4th if I get hurt, to finish it, or even a 5th if I want some sustain in a Hunters Potion refill item. This all assumes at least one gank attempt with some scuffs from the ganked enemy/enemies.

Unless I get Warwick, and use my tank runes, then I have the sustain to clear every camp potentially, Im seeing other WW junglers too. Hes meta again, because all that time spent backing to heal, or purchase jungler item pieces, or upgrade to hunters potion for sustain (which he has to for mana sustain) just eats into the clear times.

Now that isnt entirely a bitch & moan point, I feel like much of this was done to increase the amount of time laners have to get some CS unmolested before a jungler starts pressuring them. I like that part actually, thats a good move. Early intervention from junglers dictated too much of the game last season in my opinion.

The problem lies in the fact that turrets are made of paper now, and if one goes down, it gives a pushing advantage in that lane, so now pressure from the jungler is more important than ever, so a lane can be snowballed early into a self pushing lane. Whenever the grouping starts, those self pushing lanes are a serious hazard to the team with the turret disadvantage.

So my concern is, that this seasons jungle will become even more exclusive, as the meta will still, and more than ever, be champs with fast clears, and sustain. Champs that need very little mana to clear will only have to buy the machete, and honestly only the machete is any good. The talisman is just made of weak, bolted onto some fail as a starting item. AP junglers should probably just start machete too, use it for sustain, and faster clears, then back for the talisman, but then your backing so that slows your clears, but you need the extra health sustain, and mana regen... so what other choice do you have?

This does slow down the early level 2/3 ganks for champs like Elise a bit. It certainly pushes back the serious gank potential of champs like Master Yi, who now have lower sustain, and will probably have to back an extra time to build the Devourer, slowing their "no good ganks till 6."

So eventually the top 3 JG picks will be found, through a combination of the best sustain, earliest ganks, and efficient itemization. It has to be 3 though, at least 1 will be banned because theyre crowned the BEST jungler, then the other team will pick the second best jungler, thats 2, and the 3rd will be your teams jungler.

Late game scaling champs like Amumu will probably be hedged out a bit, not because their bad, but we will have less "late game full build" scenarios if they have to compete against early game power houses like Xin. Scaling well into late game is nice, unless your opponet has taken all 3 outter turrets and is chipping away at mid and bot inner towers. Your late game scaling champ now has a smaller jungle, and is at risk.

Early game snowballing jungle champs were always a reasonable choice, with the danger of falling off mid/late game, now the game rules change in favor of the winning team, and put the losing team at a disadvantage by trying to rush along their defeat with more powerful minions

Most of the matches Iv played so far become one sided VERY quickly, much more so than previous season. This is because of the easier time pushing the softer towers, with the better minions. Once you start knocking on the chewy center of the the bases inhibitor, its not just probably over, its over. The only way to undo the pressure created by the game mechanics is to take their turrets to equalize the minions strength.

If you have a late game jg champ, maybe you can do that, but I think most of us agree that not getting to that point would be best, and therefor the early game jungle champs provide their season 5 benefits and then some.

Thoughts, opinions, chicken wings?

Dose anyone else feel like late game jungle champs are going to be hedged out?

Am I wrong, will late game junglers be the all in meta now?

9 Comments

GotRektGG2 votes

I cant even get leashs now

tommyagun1 votes

Yi has a good amount of sustain. But I agree with you on the preseason jungle. But you forgot to say that they nerfed hunter's machete a lot, its the big reason why there are only a few good junglers out there. You can go early game gankers or use a tank to jg with or if you are risk taker take any adc and jungle with them because they have decent clears.

Erockandroll1 votes

Something I don't get though. the Large monsters (except the scuttler) seem to have their EXP reduced by 10, but the new Jungle items increase exp by 15 on large monster kill. So it should be an 5 EXP advantage with only your starting item. Unless the 5 exp is insignificant, or if your clear speed suffers. (likely a bit of both) You time to level 6 should only decrease.

Unless they're something else I'm missing.

Trebbi1 votes

{quoted}

Something I don't get though. the Large monsters (except the scuttler) seem to have their EXP reduced by 10, but the new Jungle items increase exp by 15 on large monster kill. So it should be an 5 EXP advantage with only your starting item. Unless the 5 exp is insignificant, or if your clear speed suffers. (likely a bit of both) You time to level 6 should only decrease.

Unless they're something else I'm missing.

If you take a monster level 1 without the machete you wont hit level 2. Its to discourage giving monsters to laners.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

If you take a monster level 1 without the machete you wont hit level 2. Its to discourage giving monsters to laners.

no sht, but on Junglers, this should still be an EXP increase. (and I thought we were about junglers.)

But that's not the missing piece. If this is a net EXP advantage for JUNGLERS, why are they still slow to get out of the starting gate?

Talkrr1 votes

Jungling has been stomped on in preseason I really hope they fix it.

Gafugarion1 votes

Jungle is overtuned again just like last season. WW Fid Yi etc all were easy then for the same reason. On an annoying note, I really hate needing like 1k gold for just an upgraded smite, so freaking annoying.

Martyrofsand1 votes

Not from my experience. Lee, J4, Rek'sai, Vi, Elise, etc all ganking just as quickly as ever if you push to quickly. Only time I don't tend to see a lot of ganks is if it's someone like Tryn/Yi/Shyvana and considering their entire strategy is "farm fast and beat the enemy team with a big sack of gold" I'm not surprised.

Weasel Kensei1 votes

Another thing about this slower start for junglers, coupled with the faster pace of the game means that if you need to baby-sit a lane, and ANOTHER lane is having trouble, then you fall even further behind if you cant power-farm.

A gank on an uncoordinated bot lane that just kinda watches as you gank, but cant act on it because theyre dumb, or saw a shinny nickle on the ground or something. Or a laner needs their hand held against a slippery or very hard to gank champ like Heimerdinger Leblanc Teemo just seems like an even more painful waste of time, and you have so much less of it before the snowballs start rolling, you just about have to give up on trying to get a sated devourer.

Im not sure what exactly is the answer. While I like that junglers were set a little further out on their ganks with mid teir items, the shortend pace of the game too just means that if you want to impact it, you have to use a champ that can gank fast, cause their just wont be a mid/late game comeback in most cases if you AFK farm till 20. Not that farming till 20 min then emerging all butch was that healthy either.

Its just that the window for actions by the jungler are so much narrower now, it WILL have to affect the champs taken to do the job.

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