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Why landing a Q skillshot as a support can lose you the lane...

Weasel Kensei·7/13/2017, 3:35:24 PM·71 votes·5,178 views

I play a lot of support, and this is one of the most frustrating and strange concepts I have to endure when playing.

Ok so... I play a lot of Morgana, and youve all seen her Q, and probably avoid it like the plague... a slow moving, Thunderlords inducing plague... I know that landing one against my opponent can cause me to lose my lane.

How is that you ask? Very simple. The snare (its not a stun, it just isnt) or root causes my ADC to see that an opponent is vulnerable, and it makes their mind snap... they devolve from a rational killer akin to an assassin with a plan into a berserk bloodthirsty animal with total abandon for any and all regard of personal safety.

Yes, this is a semi rant... I just had a match where I landed a Q with Morgana, and my ADC just went all in... died, I died too trying to help and they said "Please stop trying to fight." I said "you went in on them." They... and this is what Im talking about, they said "You landed the stun, and backed off, and then went back in."

See, this is the problem... I landed a Q on the enemy ADC, and dropped a tormented soil and turned up a smile... the ADC said "Welp, they dun Q'd that thar enemy ADC, better flip the fuck out and go HAM!!!"

I tried to explain that there is this thing called poke, and its how I get gold from item 3303 ... in their mind, they died because its my fault I landed a Q and they went all in on it... cause... Im not 100% on the logic, but the thing is, this happens with a lot of people.

I noticed it way back when I picked up playing Blitzcrank. Most people, and I mean 7/10 would be happy to land some aa, get a Q in and take the favorable trade... some, on the other hand; they would flip a switch and decide its THEM OR ME and go all in, and if they died... it was my fault for hooking them. Were not talking they were hurt and I hooked them onto my ADC. I mean I hook them while they were trying to last hit a minion, knock them up and walk away and the ADC chases them into their minions, flashes when they do to keep up takes a turret shot while still failing to kill the enemy ADC, and then starts the walk of shame back to our side but gets killed by the enemy support as they try to walk back past all the minions and the enemy support... and thats MY FAULT in their mind cause I landed a skill shot. I started a fight, they had no choice but to go all in, and if I hadnt done that, their berserker trait wouldnt have activated.

So here is my advice to ADCs. Learn what poke is. Learn how supports with item 3303 line of items need to hit the enemies periodically to maximize their gold per minute the same way you need to farm minions. Just because they landed a snare it doesnt mean you have to go all in... If you do go all in when your support was just poking them... and you die, its YOUR fault you did that.

99 Comments

PhDs Nuts7/13/2017, 3:41:12 PM28 votes

It's best when you Q a Draven and your short range ADC thinks that means they can win an AA fight with him now.

AlienPrimate7/13/2017, 3:42:34 PM16 votes

As a Taric main, all-ins are my place to shine so I don't mind when the ADC goes ham. That does not excuse the ones who go in ahead of me and the minions though. If I CC someone then by all means, blow your load on them. Don't follow them when they retreat to the safety of their minions at level 3 through.

Morgan le Fey7/13/2017, 9:23:21 PM8 votes

Morg main here! I've had the same experience time and time again. Usually it's me asking them not to fight, but the results are the same. I land Q, they assume that we're going in even though the enemy ADC is standing under their tower behind a 2,500-strong army of extra-deadly minion ninjas. They then chase the enemy like getting that kill right now no matter the risk or the cost is the only way to win. Predictably, they die, then they blame me and tell me to "make up [my] mind".

Conversely, I've had ADCs sit back and keep farming when I've flash-Q-W-R'd a lone, half-health enemy ADC under our tower while we're ahead 11/0 in lane. Now, in a situation that extreme, I'll obviously just get the kill alone, but the point is that those exact same ADCs will ignore me and ignore a free kill when I actually do engage. It's a little frustrating.

Things like this are why I occasionally lose my patience and go either Morg + full AP (aka a better Support Lux if you're good at landing Q and don't need the range on the ult) or Janna + Mobis (so I can roam at level 5 if my ADC is suicidal/a butt, and let them stew in their own juices while I win the game for us elsewhere). Every now and again I get so impatient that I go j4. No matter how bad my ADC is, I can usually keep them alive and force-feed them as j4 support, even if I have to half-suffocate them to get it down. Sometimes that means ulting in front of my own ADC to keep them from towerdiving with 10% HP, but that's just the sort of sacrifice supports have to make. :P

For the record, despite all this complaining, I do actually like playing support. It can be quite rewarding, and vision control is love and life. I love ADCs with a good sense of when to go in and when not to, and then the nice ones are an absolute joy to work with almost without regards to performance.

Carpe Victoria7/14/2017, 5:12:43 AM8 votes

Good thing i'm in silver. I have never seen a Q skillshot land on a champion.

nGio7/14/2017, 2:23:44 AM7 votes

I was reading through and nodding, like "lol yeah those kinds of adcs are absolute shit. I hate those types". Then I got to where you said "it's THEM OR ME and go all in". I stopped there and had to think hard. Wait, fuck, that's me. I'm that adc.

Asayake 5150glow7/13/2017, 10:30:44 PM6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Weasel Kensei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3T8uYtbu,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-07-13T15:35:24.883+0000) the devolve from a rational killer akin to an assassin with a plan into a berserk bloodthirsty animal with total abandon for any and all regard of personal safety.

>implying your ADC was ever rational

General Esdeath 7/13/2017, 7:20:55 PM5 votes

I used to main Leona and I'd always tell my adc "If I go all in without pinging, don't worry about me, I'm just spooking them."

I had HP and tank runes/masteries and had relic shield to heal myself up, but I'd do it to zone them away from cs, get some poke, and sometimes blow a flash/exh.

xToxicOsirisx7/14/2017, 2:03:49 AM5 votes

Really feel like this would be a better post if it wasn't blanket complaining about stupid adcs. Does landing a q as a support mean you can lose the lane? yes and no. It's more that you can lose the lane because your lane partner is stupid. How about something like PSA: Just because the enemy is cced does not mean it is safe to all-in.

TheMoralSupport7/13/2017, 8:24:30 PM4 votes

I really like your writing style, who knew a rant could be this fun to read. I'm kinda biased thoBard

ForFoxSakes7/13/2017, 4:11:26 PM4 votes

Build better then.

  1. Stop getting item 3165. Laners take this when they dont have another mana regen source when you do w the support item
  2. Stop getting item 2033. Why do you even need this when your abilities give spell vamp to heal back up and support item gives mana regen
  3. You have mana regen and HP regen runes wtf? Just go pure AP and standard defensive armor MR to do more damage and take less in return. No idea why you need so much mana
  4. If you opt for more damage items item 3157 and item 3151 are priority. 2/3 of your damage abilities already have CC so getting item 3116 is a waste
  5. If your ADC is not as reliable then level up W more than just Q for lower CD snares. W has strong scaling which lets you do more damage, push waves and help trade better. Shouldnt be spamming Q on CD anyways which looks like what you do to burn through ridiculous amounts of mana
  6. Stop bitching about the ADC and do what you can to help win trades which you arent based on your skillups and builds, AKA do the above

Morg plays best as a lane pusher so the enemy doesnt have minions to hide behind to lane Q snare. 2 points in W at level 4 with a item 3098 will take caster minions to 1 auto from death which lets your ADC last hit them easily while zoning the enemy from CSing and letting your proc your support item off them

From what you talk about above, if you're poking with Q as morg for gold procs you're doing it very wrong

Brain Errör 4047/13/2017, 11:50:25 PM4 votes

Wait a minute... I read this and my first game today went like this:

I pick Brand. We're Brand/Lucian vs Vayne/Sona(not a matchup we should lose by any means).

2minutes into the game --

Lucian: Poke them Me: No

Sona walks up, I go for the 3 hit TL procs and go to back off. Lucian goes in ham, dies

Lucian: You're actually fucking bad. Like, leave me lane you cancer fuck

Video of it going down:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRlcTcFZGE&feature=youtu.be

I poked... and you went all in... I see.

p.s Mute video sound. Idk why, but rito replay is weird.

Rivini7/13/2017, 7:19:32 PM3 votes

A rare moment when I upvote a thread.

I've experienced this many times as well. Some people really just don't know when and how to capitalize on CC'd enemies.

lofi n chillhop7/13/2017, 8:36:58 PM3 votes

well hm see ok I definitely agree with you yes - there are a lot of times when landing a Q is dangerous. And well - yes if your AD gets cought out because you land a Q that's bad too. but - on the flip side, if you're Q spamming then yes your landed q's are going to lose you the lane. and also your missed q's.

so lemme explain something else at play here - there is this thing called your zone, where you just standing there looking pretty (well better if you're walkin around than standing lol) but if all you do is walk around as if you're trying to throw a q, but don't throw them. then the enemy is spending all their time trying to dodge your threat, trying to keep out of range of threat, missing cs because it isn't worth going for it, meanwhile your ad is happily taking cs for free 'cause you're zoning better than the enemy suspport is. if you throw a Q there - you better be prepared for your ad to try to fight to - because if they don't, the enemy will CAPATILIZE on your cooldown being down. they will dive the f outa you right back and punish you for using a "Bad" q if it is a q you can't fight on.

does this help make some sense of what I am saying? I am not meaning to necessarily disagree with you lemme point that out - maybe you already have a sense of this yourself and are actually preaching to the same choir i am hehe.

JRobin317/13/2017, 9:15:46 PM3 votes

Up voted for visibility. This happens to me when I support. There is no such thing as poke or trade in some players' minds.

And when the enemy Blitzcrank actually misses a hook and I go aggressive on him punishing his lame ass, they freak out. They are still subconsciously worried that I'm going to get hooked even though he has no hook. They cant imagine that I just want to land free damage or take a favorable trade. Seriously guys, a rank one Blitz hook costs 100 mana and has a 20 second cooldown. 20 seconds! I could chase him to his second tier tower before it comes back up! But don't worry, I don't plan to chase him to his second tier tower... probably... I mean if he's that's bad at Blitzcrank... why not? Story for another time.

Cowseed7/13/2017, 6:45:14 PM3 votes

When you Q the full health lux with all spells up and your low-health adc thinks they're supressed and starts trying to poke them. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Saianna7/14/2017, 4:54:02 AM3 votes

Vayne: LOOK! THAT RAMMUS WITH 550 ARMOR IS BINDED!! THAT'S MY CHANCE!!! Morgana: jesus christ NO!!!

2 seconds later

Rammus has been slain

Morgana: wtf?

HeeroTX7/14/2017, 3:35:25 PM3 votes

Simple answer: Because you're playing a TEAM game with someone you've never met before, will likely never see again and expecting them to know your intentions despite:

  1. No history of time working with them to build synergy
  2. No voice communication to explain what one or both of your are thinking and coordinate
  3. EXTREMELY likely prior experience of other people bitching them out for doing the exact OPPOSITE of what you want

(re #3, seriously, this game is RIDICULOUSLY anti-noob and in the "learning" phase often teaches ALL the wrong lesssons. You lane with other low level morons who don't know what they're doing, and when (not if, because you're new and don't know what you're doing) you make a mistake 99.99% of the time they don't give ANY explanation of proper play instead just screaming at you for your perceived failures even if they're WRONG, ala: "I dove into a 1v3, why didn't you follow me?!? We could've taken them 2v3 with my under-leveled Braum and your down-half-an-item Ashe")

TheDonar7/14/2017, 1:34:47 PM3 votes

This post basically describes 90% of all ARAM games. "oh the guy is slowed but still at 98% HP and near 4 of his teammates? DIVE DIVE DIVE!"

There are people who do play too passively but the over aggressive plays are far more common IMO.

C9 Squeeky 7/13/2017, 10:44:12 PM2 votes

Yes and no. You don't play Blitzcrank to poke, you play to all-in.