Boards›Gameplay

You aren't pushing them in with your bullying power...

Weasel Kensei··67 votes·3,177 views

Hello everyone. I just wanted to give some tips while Im waiting on my pasta to cook; you know just cause.

So the title, whats that all about? Well often times when supporting the ADC they will push the wave up... THEY THINK theyre pushing the wave under tower forcing them to CS under tower and miss a few. Thats a valid tactic against some ADCs, and not unreasonable to do ever so often or when you want to back.

Here is the thing, what champs are you doing this too? Is it a Cait & Thresh pair? Lucian & Leona? What you dont know is youre not pushing them in, but theyre "giving you enough rope to hang yourself." They will be able to initiate and chase you down the lane possibly getting in another skillshot on you. Now the wave is frozen on their side and youre hurt and losing CS...

Pushing the wave under the tower against something like Ezreal & Soraka and forcing them to farm under tower may be a good Idea. Pushing the wave under the tower against Ezreal and Morgana may not. When youre pushed up, youre at increased risk of being ganked, and you have to consider that theyre again LETTING YOU push up so you die in the gank. This of course means risking them getting your tower and/or the dragon.

This applies to solo lanes also, youre not roflstomping that Riven... shes just waiting on her ult timer and 10 seconds from now, you will be the one losing cs on the grey screen.

Now of course some of you are winning hard, and bullying the enemy when ahead is often a good idea. So just consider in the future "Am I being lured into a trap by being allowed to push up?"

Good luck, my pasta timer just dinged so Im off to make lunch.

36 Comments

Blade of Justic29 votes

[{quoted}](name=Weasel Kensei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9dGcTzL,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-12T18:44:09.414+0000) youre not roflstomping that Riven... shes just waiting on her ult timer and 10 seconds from now, you will be the one losing cs on the grey screen.

10 seconds? Did she just get done using it?

https://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/emoticons/v1/114836/3.0

Weasel Kensei13 votes

At level 6 when she just gets it, the cooldown is 130 seconds, so chances are she used it 2 minutes ago.

rtbf7610927131 votes

You dont understand. All champions i dont like always have ult up because their cooldowns are too short becuase they are overpowered and too easy to play

Weasel Kensei10 votes

Perfectly understandable... ALSO, the players playing them, theyre bad people, probably cheating too!

Steelflame2 votes

I mean, Riven rushes CDR so that isn't saying much. She can easily have 20% by level 6 if hard rushing it

statelesskiller2 votes

more like 30% because of runes

Sraeg20132 votes

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMziIIKVAAAt2x7.jpg

AFilthyCaitMain13 votes

Good post

Upvoted

Weasel Kensei3 votes

Well thank you.

NekoniClaws7 votes

I laughed when I saw your topic. It's so true. In low elo, they're not even trying to freeze the wave most of the time. The tactic works for them 50% of the time, so they think it's great. I ask them to freeze every time it's beneficial to us, and they NEVER do it (unless it's my duo)

The worst case is the ones that use all their mana up pushing the wave to the enemy tower. "GANK ME! PLEASE!!!!"

Weasel Kensei3 votes

Yeah... Im a sup main, and Im trying to leave silver with honest effort for the first time since I started. I played the best I could last season, got to Silver 3, knew I had a lot to learn, still do. Im in Silver 3 at the moment and find myself spending less time avoiding my mistakes in times past and have started to notice others mistakes more and try to mitigate them.

Its hard, but I find as long as I dont die when my ADC pushes up for the 3rd death, I can then tell them Im roaming so I dont give them doubles in the bot lane.

The thing I hate the most is pinging my warding trinket remaining cooldown time, and them having 2 wards and WONT miss 1 CS to drop a ward in the river bush... Then they get ganked and miss way more than 1 CS. I dont know what people expect, they know ganks happen, they know they happen when theres an opening... then they make the opening and wont take precautions.

draecina1 votes

It doesn't get any better in gold. It feels like every game this week I spam ping my 0 wards in the early game and the adc always has 2. So I ping the river bush and type in chat for them to ward. And every time, we get ganked. Every. Time. Also, I've been playing with lots of plats lately, and even then they don't always help with warding in the early game.

Weasel Kensei1 votes

Sometimes I try to take a few CS and wait for them to tell me to stop, I then say "Well I obviously want you to ward the river... now we are both not getting what we want. Ward the river, I wont take CS."

I get 8-10 CS, they ward the river, the proper relationship has been established... Its a little passive-aggressive and sometimes turns them into salt miners, but it makes a point that they dont ward they lose something, eithre from enemy jg, or me.

Usually tho I just ping and start getting further and further toward our turret leaving them out alone and wait... Sometimes after the first gank I mention "I was pinging my ward CD so you would know how long we were without vision, I see you have 2 wards, maybe alternate with me."

Still, you just cant tell people things in this game, if you let them know their fly is unzipped they have a 50% chance of flipping tables.

draecina2 votes

Ha, yea, I do the same thing...just walk back to our turret until they ward. Or after we get ganked from lack of vision I tell them they should've warded like I pinged.

OMGSoAnnoying1 votes

As a jungler, if I've got a high-gank jg (XinZhao /Vi /etc) that I'm playing, I literally have drooled seeing a lane like that. You just know it's a kill (or two) waiting to happen.

k wìx5 votes

Great advice, but as a Gold/Platinum/Diamond support main, **I generally use this to my advantage. **

If we're pushing, they are usually hurt, they are the ones looking to flip the tables with a strong engage, If you can predict that, and punish them for missing it, it can be a kill and a free 50% tower health early game kill for you. In some cases, you may even net a super early turret, which can practically win you the game, these days. In many ways, both teams stand to win, it really depends on who can engage.

Not to say your advice isn't good, because it is - Just always be ready for them to lash out if they are under the turret, they have every single advantage in that position. Still, in my opinion, the biggest danger is the Jungler, in these scenarios - rather than 'pushing into your own death'.

FireDrizzle4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Weasel Kensei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E9dGcTzL,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-12T18:44:09.414+0000)

Good luck, my pasta timer just dinged so Im off to make lunch.

Your a quick typer, or just ate soup.

Now of course some of you are winning hard, and bullying the enemy when ahead is often a good idea. So just consider in the future "Am I being lured into a trap by being allowed to push up?"

When I'm losing lane im often relieved if my lane opponent pushes, atleast when you miss a minion under tower you still get the xp.

Weasel Kensei1 votes

Well I could type 40 wpm in highschool, and used to onw a copy of "Typing of the Dead" which was a typing trainer based on "House of the Dead" but you typed words at the zombies instead of shooting bullets. The pasta timer was set for 10 minutes, and I started typing while I was awaiting for the water to boil so that game me at least 2 more minutes, maybe 4 as I decided to write this while I couldnt play a match cause I was cooking.

I agree that its nice when the opponent gets ahead and then decides to throw that advantage by getting ganked, or at least becoming invested in staying put and not roaming while trying to keep me under tower. The not being zoned off of XP is really nice too.

Spacesuit Spiff3 votes

Yeah but lets be totally honest: any advice that involves not mindlessly attacking everything in sight is wasted on soloq

CanadianFarmer3 votes

Illaoi main here.

I WANT the jungler to gank me post lvl 6.

Plus, I always tell my jungler to ignore top and I usually leash him as well.

Oakleaf Ranger2 votes

All I read was laning 101

50000000000000002 votes

Technically true, but we still have a ton of bronze/silver/gold on Boards.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

I'm gold (at least last season) and this is common knowledge for me. I rarely push aggressively unless I have vision or know that the enemy jungler isn't near me.

RogueWill1 votes

You play scaling champions then. Sometimes you push just to free yourself so you can roam, protect your jungle on a invade or go for some deep vision. If you have a way to pull the lane back to where you want it, pushing is not as punishing.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

I'm pretty content just hard freezing the wave with an aggressive champion.

Śovereign2 votes

This so much. I love playing Wu top with ignite and letting the enemy top push me in thinking they are winning, but in reality I'm just waiting for the right time to all in with ignite + ultimate since people gravely underestimate Wukong's all in at level 6.

Tonebizzle2 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Randomonium2 votes

Additionally, freezing often denies your lane opponent more farm AND experience than pushing the wave under tower. If you freeze the wave you can zone your lane opponents off the wave and not only will they not be able to farm but they also won't be in range to get exp. Unless you are actively trying to push to get the tower freezing is often a far better denial tactic.

BigBellBrute2 votes

{quoted}

Additionally, freezing often denies your lane opponent more farm AND experience than pushing the wave under tower. If you freeze the wave you can zone your lane opponents off the wave and not only will they not be able to farm but they also won't be in range to get exp. Unless you are actively trying to push to get the tower freezing is often a far better denial tactic.

Season 3 called. They want their strategy back. Freezing gets the other team a four man party in the bot lane, a tower lost and you a nice trip back to the fountain. No team worth crap let's you freeze, sit there and farm up indefinitely any more. And heck. Even bad teams won't let you do it.

Randomonium1 votes

eh, I see it regularly done at the diamond/master/challenger elo. SoloRenektonOnly is a great example of someone who uses freezes to deny opponents. Also, you never freeze indefinitely. You set up the freeze when he is in lane and if he tries to roam you push and take tower. For every counter there is a counter.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

{quoted}

Additionally, freezing often denies your lane opponent more farm AND experience than pushing the wave under tower. If you freeze the wave you can zone your lane opponents off the wave and not only will they not be able to farm but they also won't be in range to get exp. Unless you are actively trying to push to get the tower freezing is often a far better denial tactic.

Thing is, many times you're actually trying to get the tower.

I only freeze if I'm scared of ganks, want ganks, or if their waveclear is too good for me to get any tower damage from pushing.

SexyBabyJesusZ1 votes

before i read the post i thought it was one of those dumb anti cyber bullying things lol

BakedLotion1 votes

I always shove people under their tower even if I'm losing. If they're being forced to farm under tower, they're not roaming, they're not helping with objectives, and you get their jungler's attention.

Easy as fuck to counter gank

The only time you don't shove is if your jungler is incompetent/on the opposite side of the map

And if I'm winning? Lmfao easy ass double kill

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

Huh, I thought people knew way last hitting/lane freezing was important since S1. You really shouldn't mess with pushing for cs/tower dmg advantage unless you're well warded or aware of the position of your enemies, the risk is worth way more than the advantage.

Zerenza1 votes

There are a few champions that benefit from pushing the enemy up though, Illaoi for example is really good at it but she's also "Good at getting ganked." Some champions don't mind drawing attention to themselves and are good at being ganked in most cases(its up to the illaoi player to know her limits on this.) so pushing someone in won't change anything and if the jungler does deside to gank you it's their funeral.

There are several more in top lane, such as Yorick after he has sheen or tri-force, you aren't going to win a 1v2 with him unless your fed. Mid lane has a couple, mostly assassins cause they can get away from the gank easily and make you waist time and a Caitlynn+Zyra botlane is also one that you probably don't want to gank if they pushed your bot lane in, they have a strong early game and will probably win a 2v3.

LordGeovanni1 votes

By the enemy no. By my own full health adc witc cc ready dash ready flash and heal ready but they wont use any to help their melee support tank that has to play up due to low range and slow moving skills 68% more likely.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Weasel Kensei

Im just tired of Thresh.
Gameplay128 comments
109
votes
Why landing a Q skillshot as a support can lose you the lane...
Gameplay99 comments
71
votes
Is anyone else really tired of farming under your turret with Cait's traps ALSO under your turret?
Gameplay102 comments
63
votes
Now that the break is over I want a Rioter to address GRIEFING SUPPORTS cause of AUTOFILL...
Gameplay22 comments
26
votes
PSA: Playing like a carry when you're support against a support main will wreck your lane.
Gameplay15 comments
13
votes
So its happend already... a moron calling me out for not having a sightstone...
Gameplay9 comments
12
votes