Well, maybe, just maybe if you didn't slam so much utility on you know, an ASSASSIN you wouldn't have to nerf him.
It's okay to be simple, Riot. You really don't have to overload the crap out of every new champion.
YumaS2Astral13 votesThe problem isn't an assassin being played as a tank. The problem is an assassin keeping his assassination potential even when building tanky.
General Murica4 votesThe problem isn't an assassin being played as a tank. The problem is an assassin keeping his assassination potential even when building tanky.
So untrue it hurts, ekko's damage compared to other sins is a joke without a perfect R.
Even tank diana kills 2x faster.
The Tilted King2 votesin my experience its really hard for ekko to get kills. Q and maybe if u hit both times u can phasedive in and get the ms/slow to sticket. but his aa animation has such a terrible windup time ur not really getting anything done even with a ludens, a two hit q and his e...he still cannot kill ashe. take in mind, that while ur trying to hit anyone every second makes ur ult trail closer to you thus negating ur escape i dont really feel its worth it too just trade some damage and ult out in the 4 second window u get...his cooldowns are fairly long as it is anyway.
MarshallBananna2 votesremember the last time they released a simple champion?
me neither
Jaygo4114 votesremember the last time they released a simple champion?
me neither
because "simple" champions are often awfully designed, like xin zhao or annie remember the last time one of these "simple" champions wasn't binary?
me neither
TacoTheKitten3 votesNew champions: hmmm... so if i throw this at a wall angled at 78.3 degrees, it will gain move speed and attack damage based off the angle of it. Also, i can blink to it midflight, becoming a projectile myself. Now if aliens don't wear hats, the amount of velocity gained for my base armor will transfer into mr, which will go back to my overall attack damage. Now if i use this ability my attack damage transfers to ability power, and all my abilities scale of ap not ad...... etc etc etc. Old champions: well maybe we can attack... AND HIT IT TILL IT DIES
Jaygo412 votesNew champions: hmmm... so if i throw this at a wall angled at 78.3 degrees, it will gain move speed and attack damage based off the angle of it. Also, i can blink to it midflight, becoming a projectile myself. Now if aliens don't wear hats, the amount of velocity gained for my base armor will transfer into mr, which will go back to my overall attack damage. Now if i use this ability my attack damage transfers to ability power, and all my abilities scale of ap not ad...... etc etc etc. Old champions: well maybe we can attack... AND HIT IT TILL IT DIES
Oh is this too complex for you Guys with 4 abilities that relate to each other or are you an annie player
Abyssphere1 votesbecause "simple" champions are often awfully designed, like xin zhao or annie remember the last time one of these "simple" champions wasn't binary?
me neither
Do you really think there is no happy middle between Ekko and Xin Zhao?
Jaygo413 votesDo you really think there is no happy middle between Ekko and Xin Zhao?
no there certainly is, 
is a great example of that
he's just simple enough but he's got neat things you can do with his kit, very obvious powerspikes and very obvious weaknesses
he's fairly complex in the number of things you can do other than his bread and butter combos and stuff
HE'S nicely inbetween ekko and xin, but all of the "relatively" complex ideas are already used and riot doesnt wanna just make more mages or something like someone said earlier. It's hard to just design champions that have clear weaknesses and clear strengths without giving them obnoxious kits, in the form of overload or little counterplay. this is why champion design is hard
nonetheless, i dont think ekko is too complicated for bums like you or i, it's really not that hard to understand.
what we need to do is rework the people that have stuff like xin has, where he either dashes at you and wins, or decides he'd lose and runs. There's no outplay, no intricacy, no thought or strategy put into what you do. it's just FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT and spam keys.
now before people fly off the handle and call me a riven picker, which im not and you can check my match history for the last 2 and a half yrs, riven is kinda about exploiting cooldowns of her opponent and things like that. there's a reason it's called "outplay" potential. she can dash around and do stuff like that, and while it feels obnoxious to play against when you're playing with an underloaded champion like xin, it's really riven that's actually doing the thinking about what cooldowns and moves she needs to avoid to flatten you. in THAT aspect, riven's pretty cool. her oppressive laning and absurd AD scaling is a bit rediculous, but i digress
what we (and by we i mean rito) should be focusing on is reworking people like xin, annie, diana, akali, people with just targeted bullshit that allows them to just destroy fights or be totally useless. and i'm not criticizing or putting a blame on targeted abilities, but look at champs that are poorly designed and too binary and you'll notice that they have few escapes and targeted abilities. now while it's a case by case basis to determine if they're designed correctly, we need to realize that it's things like that that have "little counterplay."
This has certainly been done before, case in point is sion. They took a shitbiscuit champ like sion and turned him into a REALLY awesome champion. it's doable, but we need to identify who problem champions are
Voluug131 votesSimple champions are needed to keep hyper mobility at bay.
Unless they delete 3/4 of the champion rooster and leave only those with at least a blink/dash.
Point and Click CC is what keeps the game from becoming a stepmania fighting game of reflexes.
Jaygo411 votesSimple champions are needed to keep hyper mobility at bay.
Unless they delete 3/4 of the champion rooster and leave only those with at least a blink/dash.
Point and Click CC is what keeps the game from becoming a stepmania fighting game of reflexes.
but there's 
and then there's stuff like 
. Lissandra is much healthier than annie because she's not flash reliant and she's not a one trick pony. additionally her damage is not obnoxious enough to consider her unhealthy. simplicity and containing hyper mobility are not the same thing by any stretch. maybe we need people that have more kinds of crowd control that you can pick against things like fiora and zed and stuff
HailFire Dragon4 votesbraum.... kench is pretty simple...
MarshallBananna3 votesi wouldn't consider Kench "simple".
Simple is 5.15 Garen, Master Yi, Singed, Nunu, mundo.
Thief of Time1 votesHaving almost 100K mastery point on Ekko, assassin ekko is: A. Reliant on the same combo unless you ( the opponent) get hit by timewinder B. To squishy to have only 2 damaging abilities as an assassin C. Extremely weak to cc D. An ult that can't be used offensively because your ult is always behind you E. HIs Passive on W is practically useless for assassinating, it relies on the enemy being below 30%, when assassins are supposed to burst and retreat
Summary: Ekko is a poorly designed assassin but a strong tank because he has utility. Solution: Change ekko's shield/stun into an AoE explosion that does massive damage when he roles into it, it also applies a stack of his passive. This gives him more dmg instead of utility. Look at every assassin, and tell me that there utility doesn't give them some kind of flat dmg or dmg boost even kha'zix's ult allows him to proc his passive with the utility of turning invisible
Silents4291 votesIt's okay to be simple, Riot.
It's also okay to be complicated with your mechanics to allow more angles for balancing champions.
While the champions with more simplistic kits have the tendency to be difficult to balance without causing a fuss. 
CoolKnightST1 votesTank ekko was pretty insame. He could easy kill pull while full tank during his passive. He could cleanup & everything. I think changing ekko jungle to AP with more ability power required is more healthy for him. He still goes tank in the jungle even with the changes.
Dr Poro1 votesTank ekko is still strong now. Just shows how good it used to be before the nerfs.
Divewing1 votesYou realise AP Ekko is perhaps the only assassin that cannot 100-0 someone without a lead, and even then it has to be a pretty big lead, or else he's waiting or praying he can land his ultimate. To be honest he should never have been labelled as an assassin, and instead a skirmisher, because that is how he fights (or how is easiest). Go in, proc passive/throw Qs/land stuns, GTFO with ult and wait for cooldowns.
If you stop and think about your average teamfight. You won't be getting a stun on the backline against any team with a brain, so you stun the frontline, following up on your teams engage.
You phase dive into the backline, chunking them (or at least one) with Q and passive, shield prevents you from getting melted, but it's now gone and stun is basically over, so you peace out.
By this point their frontline should be either somewhat or very weakened due to your teams ADC+whatever the hell else, so you move in and help out, their backline has to be careful of phase dive and Q which are basically back up, with W coming up kinda shortly, and even if you do get focused, you can zhonyas, which also helps stall.
Compare to LeBlanc which is: I got the QQWE on the ADC guys
I think Ekko is the healthiest "assassin" riot has ever made, he has TONS of counterplay, and a gameplay pattern that doesn't force a NECESSITY TO 100-0 A TARGET INSTANTLY. I think the real reason tank Ekko got hit was because it dumbed him down. Waddle in there. Oh I lost some health, meh R button. Utility was being used that was given as a trade for risk, but via tank building, the risk was severely decreased
ReQnosis1 votesWhile I've never played Ekko, this thread reminds me of the recent MagicarpUsedFly video on how to build Ekko.
Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS1CiWvQtbk
~
This really makes me think that the best way to get anything nerfed, is to make a video of the champion you want nerfed, but instead of complaining about it. You brag/praise how easymode the champion is, almost to the point it looks like an exploit.
Bonus points if you mock Riot's design and get loads of views/convince other youtubers/streamers to use your build (exploit).
#FoodForThought.
A Miss Fortune1 votesEkko's main problem is his kit is overloaded. They didn't need to nerf his abilities, they needed to flat out remove parts of his kit. Nerfing his abilities over and over would eventually just make him trash-tier since constantly nerfing his abilities would make them useless, when they could of simply removed parts of his kit and let some of his abilities stay at a certain power.
Gigahappytown1 votesITT people don't know what overloaded means
assassin ekko is one of the more balanced assassins as with kha,zix
What they need to do is change his passive slow and move speed boost to scale with ap not level and reduce the base amount Building tank will give a much lower slow than live but building glass cannon will give a much higher slow the stun duration should scale as well 1.5 seconds with no ap but up to a cap of 3 seconds with 400 ap these numbers can be adjusted but you get the idea
I feel like this fits with ekkos theme as a time assassin with everything in his kit having low bases but very good scaling
Nekusen1 votes
doesn't have the burst to be an assassin, he even has the kid of a bruiser
