"Mordekaiser is unfun and unfair to play against"

Galewings·Oct 17, 2015·252 votes·10,786 views

Doesn't seem to be a pattern with a particular champ designer at all.

273 Comments

RedCycloneOct 17, 201595 votes

#CancerMancer AKA - CertainlyT

Seriously, CertainlyT has AMAZING ideas, but he cannot balance worth a damn...everything has to have un-needed extra power, it's like if Guinusoo went into balancing I miss Xeph :<

SalronOct 17, 201511 votes

{quoted}

#CancerMancer AKA - CertainlyT

Seriously, CertainlyT has AMAZING ideas, but he cannot balance worth a damn, it's like if Guinusoo went into balancing I miss Xeph :<

How many times do the people on these boards need to be told that CertainlyT only does the design? The balance team is responsible for the numbers.

RedCycloneOct 17, 201514 votes

fine, i wanted to be nice

#FIRECancerMancer I'm fairly certain the guys resume would be great for him to be hired by Icefrog and work on Dota2

SmithneyOct 17, 20152 votes

Inb4 CancerMancer becomes DotA2's premier designer

Voluug13Oct 17, 20154 votes

nah, DOTA20s designs are much much simpler mecanical wise and respect their own guidelines. Meanwhile CertainlyT stomps all over Riot's guidelines and design limitations. creates ''always good'' champions, and somehow is allowed to continue working on more champions.

AnidanOct 17, 201513 votes

As a DotA player: he wouldn't be allowed in DotA with his designs, either.

manbearswineOct 17, 20157 votes

{quoted}

As a DotA player: he wouldn't be allowed in DotA with his designs, either.

Can confirm.

"Overloaded out of it's ass" isn't an identity dota likes,and is much more prominent in lol than in dota.

RedCycloneOct 17, 201512 votes

Fine, someone give him a job at Activison or something then

he can make a new triple barreled-smg-sniper with homing bullets for the next COD game

RainbowgasmOct 17, 20151 votes

Seriousely? Dota 2's balance has always relied on characters with exaggerated strengths and weaknesses. Techies can 1 shot people with well placed mines but are very vulnerable with little to no defense, attack damage, or escape. Natures prophet is everywhere at once split pushing all the lanes but can be countered with items and certain heroes very easily. Ursa wins ALL the 1v1s and can solo Rosh very early on, but can do jack shit against kite and cc. Slark doesn't give a crap about kite OR cc and not even Lee Sin compares to his mobility. Riki is basically Evelyn when she could 1v1 and perma stealth at the same time. Slardar makes stealth completely useless and Axe can proxy farm at lvl 1.

GorgannanOct 18, 20157 votes

But they don't have overloaded kits.

Except maybe Invoker :^) They just have incredibly powerful basic abilities.

Auz the RipperOct 18, 20154 votes

Invoker's biggest strength and weakness is how overloaded he is

Zenthon PrimeOct 17, 201562 votes

In only one case were numbers the issue with a CertainlyT kit: Zyra. The rest are all kit issues: Darius : Prior to rework, was a hyper-binary lane bully that when strong was essentially unbeatable in lane by everyone except Yorick. Is stilll BS now, but different designer. Zed : When strong, has all the standard tools of an assassin with incredible safety in the laning phase and wave clear on par with some mages. Thresh : The most overloaded champion in League. Yasuo : Broken passive, E is far too powerful to be put on a carry, insanely unfun in laning phase for mages and other skillshot champions moreso than basically any other champion because of infinite dashes. Kalista : Passive is broken. Rend is insane. Tons of utility on top of this. So incredibly good that even her autos scaling with only 90% of AD didn't kick her out of the meta. Mordekaiser : The single most broken passive in the game (W), actually one-shots, the most win-more champ in the game with Dragon passive, still has all of old Morde's issues.

YumaS2AstralOct 17, 201516 votes

{quoted}

In only one case were numbers the issue with a CertainlyT kit: Zyra. The rest are all kit issues: : Prior to rework, was a hyper-binary lane bully that when strong was essentially unbeatable in lane by everyone except Yorick. Is stilll BS now, but different designer. : When strong, has all the standard tools of an assassin with incredible safety in the laning phase and wave clear on par with some mages. : The most overloaded champion in League. : Broken passive, E is far too powerful to be put on a carry, insanely unfun in laning phase for mages and other skillshot champions moreso than basically any other champion because of infinite dashes. : Passive is broken. Rend is insane. Tons of utility on top of this. So incredibly good that even her autos scaling with only 90% of AD didn't kick her out of the meta. : The single most broken passive in the game (W), actually one-shots, the most win-more champ in the game with Dragon passive, still has all of old Morde's issues.

Just to remember: CertainlyT did not designed Zed . The actual Zed designer is named Samizul.

Zenthon PrimeOct 17, 201520 votes

No wonder he has far less issues than the others.

ArakadiaOct 17, 20152 votes

Zed, somewhat Kal, and thresh all take ALOT of skill to be super effective. I played against an all AP mord who kept turret diviing. He built some health items (I.e Liandris) but he took near to no damage. Darius still stupid. And once he has 2-3 items Yas has 100% crit strike chance and does 250% dmg per strike, with 50% armour pen. Yas has little escape though as his e needs targets, his q requries time to actiavte, and his w only blocks pokes.

Voluug13Oct 17, 20154 votes

What kind of skill are we talking about here? Mechanical skill, or game skill? Because they are not the same. Because Zed is safe for a reason - even if he was counterpicked he has a way easier time that any other assassin. Thresh has easily circunvent Q's pseudo missiability with a MS active item and then E into Q. Kal is the only one that kinda makes sense, but even there she is so counterpick reliant that it isnt fair at all.

Riot keeps saying ''bla bla champion select should not decide the game bla bla'' but in the end they keep pumping out champions like Kalista, Riven and Zed that basically need to be counterpicked due to a lack of realistic counterplay.

Yasuo's Q is ridiculous, you want to know why? Because its ''activation time'' is minimal for a knock up. It has basically 6-9s cooldown after his first item. A possibly targeted high damage knock-up that doubles as a zoning weapon. And his W remains as the most broken and unfair weapon against a lot of champions. He has a shield for poke, the wall is to block ults. Nami's Tsunami should destroy that wall, as any proyectile based Ult. Zhonia blocking Ults is OK because of its cooldown, but not a 26-18s cd skill with no player skill involved whatsoever due to how it works (Starts at Yasuo, is ludicrously wide, can even block proyectiles coming from behind Yasuo).

All CertainlyToxic's creation have needed massive nerfs everywhere so they arent stupidly broken. The balance team cant do miracles, they cant change the kits by themselves, only the numbers.

MysticFlameHazeOct 17, 20152 votes

he didn't design morde? he's not listed under champs he did on the wikipage

AxxukaOct 17, 201518 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kazuto Ishin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JsE4Zphj,comment-id=0009000000010003,timestamp=2015-10-17T22:18:32.887+0000)

he didn't design morde? he's not listed under champs he did on the wikipage

He made the Morde rework we know as of now.

sp441Oct 17, 201526 votes

He needs somebody to work alongside him, somebody to say "STOP" after a certain point.

"Kalista can bound with her support to deal max hp damage on a team attack!"

"Okaaaay"

"And she can stick a bunch of spears on you, then press E to deal massive damage!"

"Suuuure"

"And she can jump around with each auto-atta-"

"Stop"

KeevalroyOct 17, 201516 votes

"And she can jump around with each auto-atta-"

Slap

"STOP! BAD T! BAD T!"

"But think about the hops and the LCS B-"

Slap

"NO! BAD!"

DytjeSaurrOct 17, 20154 votes

I feel as if it were up to you we'd still be getting champs like Annie and Jax :(.

sp441Oct 17, 20156 votes

I'm all for champions having cool, unique kits, but you gotta learn when to STOP adding power. CertainlyT is like a Sonic fanboy who just makes his OCs unbelievably powerful by giving them a shit-ton of ridiculous powers.

Insane PyromanicOct 20, 20152 votes

xyph made riven and fizz but lets try to forget about that.

Öi JosukeOct 17, 201513 votes

Why is this downvoted? Its so true.

KeevalroyOct 17, 201524 votes

Because CertainlyT's fanboys are everywhere ready to defend him at a moment's notice.

SelflessTeammateOct 17, 20154 votes

He has fanboys? That's not being sarcastic, I honestly didn't know champion designers had fanboys. Like, I know CertainlyT has a reputation for making champs that don't go over so hot with people, but...There are people who have a bias in favor of the guy who creates certain champs?

KeevalroyOct 17, 20156 votes

Of course, they're all over the place intentionally ignoring how toxic his kits are and have convinced themselves nothing is wrong because they main those champions, then they'll go down swinging to defend the kits and the idiot that designed them.

xFrostKnightxOct 17, 20159 votes

Calling him an idiot is too far. His ideas are good, I don't play any of his designs just to confirm for you.

The problem with CertaintyT is that he doesn't known when enough is enough. He over loads the kits thinking they need it to be viable.

Meanwhile this screws the group who tweaks numbers. While more familiar with balancing, with this sort of kit thrown at them you can do so little without making said champion OP or UP.

Also, the people down voting are; (In order)

White knights, aka, Rito is perfect and so is every game company. obviously the community is stupid and all 10yr'olds.
I main them and am bias, I want OP
I don't play this champion but as a plat+ I think it's easy to counter them. Stupid bronze post.

I don't play Mord or any of the left for dead champions (Karma/Kassadin) but when the 70% of the board. I wish riot would just give up and listen.

KeevalroyOct 17, 20157 votes

The problem with CertaintyT is that he doesn't known when enough is enough. He over loads the kits thinking they need it to be viable.

He's had YEARS to perfect his design, but unfortunately for us, perfection to him means making the perfect champions with no drawbacks to picking them. He couldn't make a healthy kit if his career depended on it and Riot is perfectly alright with this because he makes them lots of money. How and why is he allowed to have this kind of freedom if he's proven that he's incapable of creating a single well-designed champion when every new design has been more toxic, unfair, and overly-aggravating than his previous mistake of a release? Why isn't anything being done about this?

PartholonianOct 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

He has fanboys?

He has non-haters, at least. To a sufficiently intense hater there's no difference between a fanboy and someone who just doesn't hate CT hard enough.

Archon XOct 17, 201510 votes

Sorry, what's the problem with Thresh?

xShiNjiNxOct 17, 201528 votes

He's the season 4 Lee Sin of bot lane, He can do it all. Initiate, peel, save ppls ass, tank, CC the only thing he doesn't have is a heal which relic shield is for.

kcStrangerOct 17, 20159 votes

Yeah...I personally love Thresh and think it's a really cool design overall, but I agree he's got a little too much going on. Personally, I'd say the bonus AD on flay is probably unnecessary; it really helps him to go Relic Shield without consequence. Remove it and just give him a little extra AD/level if needed, I'd say.

xShiNjiNxOct 17, 20156 votes

Eh, i really don't care too much. I will say I'm usually annoyed by the Lantern saving plays. If it were me, I decrease the stretch range but make it more reliable to click.

Big LincolnOct 17, 20153 votes

i don't find yasuo or kalista to be unfair

rework Darius is also much more fun/fair

doiminat0r3600Oct 17, 201512 votes

"Hey! Lets hit Yasuo with our only ranged kits!" - Ahri Heimerdinger
"Nope! I have a shield AND a windwall that blocks everything!" - Yasuo

Big LincolnOct 17, 20152 votes

i forgot his shield was always up and his wind wall was permanent

Fieryfury3Oct 17, 20152 votes

^lol people just don't know how to autoattack and wait for shield to be gone

Voluug13Oct 17, 20156 votes

At which he simply walks back behind his minions, or spams his E dashes while it regenerates. Or simply zones you with his Q knockup that has at worst a 9s recharge time.

So unless you have P&C damage/CC or AoE CC/Silence on a basic skill, you wont be trading a decent Yasuo any day soon.

xFrostKnightxOct 17, 201522 votes

Swain : "Yas, we need your help urgently!!! " Yasuo : "What is it president?!!" Swain : "There's a Tsunami that's going to wipe out all life on Runeteria!" Yasuo : "Stand back! I've got this."

Windwalls Tsunami

Nami : ...How the Fu-

AATTRROOXXOct 17, 20152 votes

Most of these champions are actually fun to play as.

Only Play DariusOct 17, 201544 votes

So we should all sacrifice our sanity just so people can keep playing these champs?

Hell Darius is one of my favorite champs because he's ridiculously fun to play as but oftentimes even I end up disgusted with myself for putting someone through that .

AATTRROOXXOct 17, 20155 votes

Leading question

manbearswineOct 17, 201512 votes

{quoted}

Leading question

It isn't much of a question.

Considering the reaction the enemy yasuo gave me after I picked annie into him(because I'm not gonna roll his overloaded dice towards skillshots),I'm guessing he didn't have fun at all.

Champions like yasuo/kalista are trap champions,they rely on having their player punish off-meta picks,when a yasuo/kalista is properly picked against(like competitive often will) they won't have fun,when they aren't,they are just basically "Well you should've picked a meta champion,now suffer while I jack off to my "amazing outplays"",I basically main lulu now because all of my other picks are rendered trollpicks if one of these(it's not just certainlyT champions,though kalista and yasuo are some of the biggest offenders) are picked,then some low elos call me "meta sheep",because they can deal with the trash kalistas/yasuos in silver.

These champions are a very big part of why variety is so bad,but since competitive play won't bother with these off-meta picks,you can't directly see that this is the reason they aren't picked(and are off-meta).

So overall- trap champions,they appear fine until you dig deeper into how they affect picks,a yasuo against annie is unlikely to have fun,and yasuo is balanced in such a manner that if you don't pick annie(/lissandra/etc) into him,then it's your fault and you should now suffer.

As to thresh/darius,they just rely on op status,if it were to go away,so will their playrate and "fun factor",though well,darius will still have some lane bully identity,thresh will be a "jack of all trades,master of none"(ergo overshadowed by other,more dedicated picks) instead of "jack of all trades,master of all".

Voluug13Oct 17, 20154 votes

THIS^

Riot keeps spouting the ''champion select shouldnt decide game!!1!!'' but then release hyperreliant on countericking abominations like Yasuo or Kalista, where if you dont choose their counterpicks they are allowed to roll over you like you are dirt.

The 3-4 champions that dont lose/can actually stomp against a decent Yasuo, are Annie Swain Malzahar Lissandra , and maybe Lulu . Everyone else can hope to not feed at best.

LeeDarkOct 17, 20153 votes

That's a load of crap.

Voluug13Oct 18, 20153 votes

Explain why then.

I am eagerly waiting your arguments that sustain your affirmation.

LeeDarkOct 18, 20151 votes

No point. I've beaten Yasuo players and seen high Elo streams of others beating Yasuo players with many more champions than that. You'll just say "None of those were decent Yasuo players." So there is no point in arguing, since your original argument is already set up so that nobody can prove you wrong, even with evidence.