Ever notice how troll pickers hate it when you play along in champ select?

Dominick Destine·Jul 25, 2016·11 votes·1,127 views

I've noticed that when someone troll picks, they HATE when you pick suboptimally; Like you'll have a Soraka mid or Sona top and then go Nami jungle and they'll be furious. Oh I'm sorry that my support Sion didn't go well with your AP Urgot ADC, should I have picked something else....? oh well now you know how I feel.

Apparently it's only okay when they troll... but it's funnier that way because if you don't let them bait you, you win. The key to winning is to never let trolls get to you, always play along because what they want is attention, if you don't give it to them they will not win.

Edit: The whole point of this thread is to encourage players NOT to get baited by trolls. Never insult them, never belittle them, never rage at their troll picks or troll builds, just play along and they will be furious that their plan backfired and the people they trolled are actually having fun.

That was my point. Don't ever be toxic to them, that's what they want. Just play along.

36 Comments

DynikusJul 25, 20169 votes

support sion is quite good though.

ReshiKillimJul 25, 20162 votes

I agree.

If anyone over in Korea said that support Sion is a troll pick, they'd be laughed out of the country.

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

support sion is quite good though.

http://champion.gg/champion/Sion/Support Care to try again? his stats for such a low played champ are very low.

DrCyanideJul 25, 20163 votes

By your same stats, the average Sion Support player has a 66% win rate on him, but the new Sion Support players have a 40% win rate. Considering how often the EU LCS casters keep talking about how they hope to see Sion Support with Jhin ADC, I'm guessing that's where the influx of new players is coming from.

(85 games on average, the 50-125 game bracket has a 66% win rate).

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

By your same stats, the average Sion Support player has a 66%

50% win rate is not 66% win rate.

It's also a 50% win rate with an abysmal pick rate which means he is a terrible choice.

Sightless66Jul 25, 20163 votes

His playrate is low but steadily increasing, which along w8th his recent pro play suggests that his pick rate is due to player ignorance as opposed to weakness. We saw the same pattern with trundle when he was adopted as a support. In addition, his winrate over previous patches has been over 54% and stayed there for quite a few patches, which we would not expect if he was actually that weak. In fact, his current drop in winrate seems more like a temporary variance due to a low sample size than his old more consistent winrate did.

archerno1Jul 25, 20165 votes

Your thread would be so much better if you didnt actually try to bash onto one of best supports in Korea atm...

Mysticman89Jul 25, 20164 votes

It's delicate, since some 'troll' picks are actually someones pocket pick that they're actually quite good at relatively speaking, and while they're trollish, they will get results if left to be.

Answering an unconventional pick with an unconventional pick of your own is fair if you're actually confident in your ability to play a champion in an off-meta role, but the answer to what appears to be trolling shouldn't be trolling yourself.

edit: I've had plenty of fun answering a yi support pick with a janna mid pick. We both did exceptionally well in the end, but there was a lot of rage until it became apparent we were the best ones on the team.

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

if you're actually confident in your ability to play a champion in an off-meta role

What if I have zero confidence and just want to "try something knew"? (aka counter trolling the troll) You're the type of person I'd counter troll. You can't troll pick and then whine that someone played along.

That doesn't follow.

Mysticman89Jul 25, 20163 votes

If you have reason to think that your something new will work (and it's normals), go for it.

If not, you might find that the other person wasn't actually trolling (be it due to them being secret whatever mains who can pull it off, or it actually being a thing and you not realising it like sion sup), and then the sole reason you lose is because of you, which presumably feels bad.

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you have reason to think that your something new will work (and it's normals), go for it.

Of course, that is what I do to trolls. I try out something new to the best of my abilities.

AP support Garen could be secretly op build.

Sightless66Jul 25, 20165 votes

You know AP Garen won't work, and so do the 3 other players who don't want to put up with your shit anymore than they want to put up with the other guy's shit. At least the guy playing support Sion legitimately thinks his pick can work (with good reason). You don't think AP Garen will work. That's a shittier thing to do to your teammates than what he's doing.

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You know AP Garen won't work

Never know if you don't try.

If you're going to go Sona or Soraka mid, I will play along.

Sightless66Jul 25, 20164 votes

You're not playing along, you're escalating it. Garen jungle would be playing along. You're going from an unusual position that can still work, to a build which absolutely can't work. You're like the guy who gets insulted and responds by running it down mid. Yeah, you've successfully "trolled" the guy you didn't like, but you're even more annoying to the other 3 people in the game than he is.

I'd much rather have the Sona mid player as my teammate than you. At least I'm not actively harmed by having them. At least they're trying to win.

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You're not playing along, you're escalating it.

Escalating would be intentionally feeding. I never do that. Doing what they do is playing along.

I'm glad to see that someone playing along with your trolling is so infuriating to you, that was my goal to begin with. My point is; Never let trolls wins, always play along with them with zero toxicity on your end. That really pisses them off.

Sightless66Jul 25, 20161 votes

Escalating would be intentionally feeding.

No, this is escalating. If you're playing AP Garen, you're worse than the guy playing Sona mid. He's trying to win, you're not. He thinks his pick has a chance to do well, and you don't think your pick does. There's a difference.

I wouldn't give a fuck if you were just playing something in an off role. That's what the "troll" is doing. You're taking it a step further, and throwing your gold into something you know for a fact is stupid. You're worse.

I'm telling this from the perspective of an outsider, a complete meta-slave who never plays weird picks for any reason. You ruin my games more than he does.

I'm glad to see that someone playing along with your trolling is so infuriating to you,

You don't get my problem. See, I've played with people who do what you do. One of our teammates picks something they don't like (I've seen this for Graves ADC, Morde top, Sion support, even Brand support), and their immediate response is to pick something with literally no chance to win. Usually, they won't even try to win.

The thing is, they're usually the ones who ruin my games, not the guy who initially decided to play something weird. Sometimes the guy picking something weird is toxic, but usually it's just something he wants to play and does fine with. The guy who "countertrolls" in response never tries hard, he never does well, and he's pretty much always given up before the game even starts. No one builds AP Garen if they're actually trying to play well.

My point is; Never let trolls wins, always play along with them with zero toxicity on your end. That really pisses them off.

My point is, defending your ego at the expense of your other 3 teammates is toxic. If you're trying to make the game worse, you're a problem. I don't care if the troll is mad. I don't care if he's pissed off. It solves nothing. I care what the quality of my game is, and you're needlessly decreasing it.

It's just a big stupid dick measuring contest whenever my teammates do this, and I hate having to get shackled to it. I don't care about pissing other people off.

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No, this is escalating. If you're playing AP Garen, you're worse than the guy playing Sona mid.

Based on what? I am building the strongest AP Garen build possible. I am positioning properly and using pings to communicate.

I know what it is; It's that you don't like my build, well now you know how I feel.

NOTE: AP Garen was pretty pseudo legit during Deathfire Grasp era. Luden's Echo is a good substitute.

I don't care if the troll is mad. I don't care if he's pissed off

Then you have completely missed the point. My whole point is to never be toxic towards trolls, never rage at their troll picking, never insult or belittle them for their suboptimal picks. Just play along, that is the only way to win.

Sightless66Jul 25, 20161 votes

so now you know how I feel.

I already know how you feel. So do the three other teammates that you're trolling. What did they ever do to you?

Based on what?

Based on you explicitly saying that you're trying to troll. You said that you're trying to piss people off. You're playing something that by your own admission is not meant to be successful, because that's what you think the other person is doing.

I know what it is; It's that you don't like my build,

Dude, stop with this crap. Whatever point you were going to make with it was evident the first time. I know you don't actually believe this, because you told me so. Speak with me directly already.

I am positioning properly and using pings to communicate.

You know what: I don't believe you. I actually don't believe that you play seriously when you do this. I have literally never seen someone who countertrolls play seriously while doing it. Maybe you do, but you'd be literally the only person I've ever even heard of who does that. I just can't see it happening.

I mean, you're committing to a build you know makes you weaker, specifically because it makes you weaker, and you're telling me that you're still playing seriously. Never seen that happen before.

I have never seen a countertroll. Not even once. They ruin games because they give up before it even starts.

It's that you don't like my build, so now you know how I feel.

I woudn't mind your build if your motivation wasn't to try to make people angry.

Seriously, you're trying to piss off your team. Why should I take your side? Why should I care at all about you trying to piss off someone you call a troll (and who may just be playing off-meta), when you're also trying to piss off your teammates? If the first guy is already annoying them as you clearly think he is, then why add onto it? Why make the game even worse?

I'm telling you, you're the kind of person who has ruined my games. The guys who play weird shit are only occasionally annoying. The guys who countertroll them are always, always annoying.

You're not getting my point: From the perspective of an outsider, I hate people who do what you do more than I hate the initial trolls. You make games worse more often than they do.

Then you have completely missed the point.

No, I haven't. You want to make someone mad because they did something you disapprove of. Maybe they tried to piss you guys off, maybe not, but the point is that you want to one-up them. You don't give a single fuck about your other teammates and how you're affecting them. Pissing off someone else is the only goal, and fuck whatever collateral damage there happens to be.

Just play along, that is the only way to win.

Yes, make the other people in your game even more miserable. Truly, you are who I should learn from. How could I ever think that not pissing off my teammates was a laudable goal?

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I already know how you feel.

Are you admitting you're a troll? that was who I was talking about in my original post when referencing a troll picker.

Based on you explicitly saying that you're trying to troll.

I never said that, I said "play along".

I have literally never seen someone who countertrolls play seriously while doing it.

Playing along does not necessarily mean throwing a game. I won a game which was twitch, rengar, akali, shaco and me as Evelynn support, it was glorious and we all had a blast (The original troll was Akali; Twitch and I carried hard).

Just because YOU lose your cool doesn't mean others will too.

Why should I take your side?

Since you are admitting that you are a troll, you shouldn't. I am on the side of NOT being toxic, the side of NOT raging, the side of NOT being the victim. My response is just to play along and have fun.

you're the kind of person who has ruined my games.

The kind of person that ruins my games is a troll, but rather than get angry I will just play along.

Sightless66Jul 25, 20161 votes

Before I respond to what you wrote: Maybe you were trying to advocate just having fun despite trolls, and if so, we can find common ground. However, I really don't think anything you've written really says that, so I'm going to write the rest of this as a response to what your writing actually said.

I am on the side of NOT being toxic, the side of NOT raging, the side of NOT being the victim.

And at what point in all this does "do what the troll did because you think it will annoy them" come into play? How would playing normally fulfill this goal even less?

Also, just as a note, I'd define toxicity as doing something specifically to piss someone else off. Given that you've said you're picking suboptimally specifically because they did it, and because you think it gets under their skin, toxic seems like a good word to describe it.

Are you admitting you're a troll? that was who I was talking about in my original post when referencing a troll picker.

I thought you were using that as "now you know how I feel, because this is what the trolls always say to me, and now I'm imitating a troll to say it to you". I was under the impression you were already assuming that I was a troll, and that your writing was based on that assumption. I responded as such.

So, no, I'm not. As I explicitly said earlier, I am a meta-slave. Given that your idea of "trolling" in this context includes someone picking suboptimal builds, I can't be included.

And just to be clear, I don't troll in other ways either. I do consider you to be a troll because you specifically attempt to annoy people.

I never said that, I said "play along".

By doing the exact same thing that you consider to be trolling. Yes, that's a wonderful distinction. How could I have ever missed it?

This is semantics. You're taking an action specifically because you intend to annoy someone. If it's trolling on their side, what makes it different for you?

Just because YOU lose your cool doesn't mean others will too

Ok, hang on a second. If what these players are doing doesn't actually make you mad, and it doesn't make your teammates mad, and everyone has more fun, then how are they trolling in the first place?

I won a game which was twitch, rengar, akali, shaco and me as Evelynn support

So have I (not this exact team comp obviously). I'm perfectly fine with this. Thing is, whenever this happens successfully, it never includes someone who was trying to pick suboptimally just to annoy their teammates. It was people picking to have fun, which is not what you advocated. You advocated trying to annoy someone else.

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

it never includes someone who was trying to pick suboptimally just to annoy their teammates. It was people picking to have fun, which is not what you advocated. You advocated trying to annoy someone else.

I specifically said Akali troll picked in that match, but you ignored it.

Mysticman89Jul 25, 20161 votes

I see that account is/was diamond (which tbh surprises me a great deal considering your apparent lack of inter-regional meta knowledge), so I'm sure you're aware garen doesn't have any AP ratios, and hence you aren't trying to the best of your abilities.

If you want to try garen support (particularly if you've got experience on garen), then sure you can do so, but your reasoning should be something the line of "He's got a silence, can be sticky, and has plenty of built in sustain" and then build him tank (or even ad/crit since he at least benefits from those if the idea is to go full cheese), since that's a "probably not...but maybe?" level of viability that testing out could be fun and maybe work (particularly since opposing team doesn't know how to play around it).

You've played in previous seasons, so surely you remember metas in which raka mid/top was very much a thing with tons of q spam to clear waves and endlessly poke/sustain. Sona mid was a niche thing before her rework and probably could still be a thing now, where she becomes hella burst when built straight AP. Solo lane Janna was also part of the reason for some of her nerfs, since she could just sit back and clear entire waves with her Q and constantly push to tower with no danger to herself due to her self peel and range. She can still sortof do so, although she needs way more AP so it's far less oppressive (and in my case, I'm a ~700k mastery janna main, so if I have a reason to, I can play her in any role reasonably confidently).

The goal of any game should ultimately be to win. Taking unconventional approaches to do so can be both fun and effective, but you should always be able to offer up valid reasons for why it might work, otherwise you're actively reducing your own chances of winning. Trying to spite (potential) trolls doesn't make you a winner, it just makes you a shitty person on their level or worse, depending on the intentions of the potential troll.

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Trying to spite trolls doesn't make you a winner

Playing along with trolls doesn't "Make me worse", it makes it funny.

I would never do that to real players, but when someone is going to troll a game I am not going to get baited and rage at them. I will not insult , belittle, or otherwise say negative things, I will NOT be toxic... I will simply play along.

This is the best tactic because the trolls get very angry when they realize their plan has backfired and the people they tried to troll are actually having fun.

Mysticman89Jul 25, 20161 votes

The thing is you don't know someone is trolling until the game gets going, or if they explicitly state they're going to troll at champ select (in which case the sensible thing to do is dodge).

Also if you have fun by making people angry, you probably are a troll. I like playing off-meta stuff when I can get away with it, but it's because I have fun winning when people think it's an unfair pick, not because I enjoy making my teammates angry. If I pick something off-meta and I do poorly, then I actually feel quite bad. If I pick something off-meta in response to someone else picking off-meta and they do well, I feel even worse. If we both do meh, then great, I got to try whatever pick, and I don't feel guilty for losing.

I've played ranked matches at plat elo with a random talon adc, which I suspect most people would consider to be trolling at champ select. Everyone still picked their best champions since they all still wanted to win, and it turned out that the talon basically carried since they really knew their stuff. The point being, it's really hard to know someone is trolling until it's too late, and you don't want to be the sole reason your team loses unless you're a terrible person.

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The thing is you don't know someone is trolling until the game gets going, or if they explicitly state they're going to troll at champ select (in which case the sensible thing to do is dodge).

have fun by making people angry, you probably are a troll.

Exactly.

These people want to make others angry but if their plan backfires and people have fun, they will be the ones that are angry. It is important to remain cool and simply enjoy yourself rather than play their game and devolve into toxicity; That is what they want.

Nothing makes trolls more angry than realizing that their targets are having fun.

Mysticman89Jul 25, 20162 votes

I don't want anyone to be angry, trolls or otherwise. You seem to want to make trolls angry, which make me question your character.

LiveYiOrDieHardJul 25, 20164 votes

I've met so many guys like the OP in game. They always go 0/10 and then blame you for them going 0/10 "because your troll pick made me pick this awful champion I never play and then feed".

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I've met so many guys like the OP in game. They always go 0/10 and then blame you for them going 0/10 "because your troll pick made me pick this awful champion I never play and then feed".

That's literally the opposite of what I am saying.

The person in your story successfully got trolled. I am saying troll them right back, play along and then watch them get furious.

rtbf221651412Jul 25, 20162 votes

The only issue with support Sion is his ability called Soul Furnace. He doesn't get the passive max hp buffs from killing enemies as often. Other than that, he is a tank with slows (Q, E), knock ups (Q), a stun (R) and armor reduction abilities (E). Definitely cannot be used as support. Nope, no support has stuns, slows, knock ups, and a thing called summoner 3 to decrease armor and help their ADC secure kills.

TequilaZombieJul 25, 20161 votes

Just like when I pick J4 support. Knock up, poke, slow, AS steroid and flash burning ult (and if I'm not mistaken armor shredding). Totally not a support.

Duke AnaxJul 25, 20161 votes

Or AP Nasus, summoner 3 on steroids, massive aoe poke, armor shred, incredible engage.

LaserDeathBladeJul 25, 20162 votes

Maybe it's just a normal dude picking his non-meta champion, and you've just gone and explicitly troll picked.

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Maybe it's just a normal dude picking his non-meta champion, and you've just gone and explicitly troll picked.

No no, I am playing serious.

Crittlesticks is legit build man. Srsly.

SwiftKitten88Jul 25, 20161 votes

yeah i picked support Nidalee a few weeks ago as a throwback to season 4.

it was funny when the enemy placed a ward in the bush right next to me and i instant killed it before it turned invisible and they were like.. "damn the pro plays are real".

that's one thing i'm going to miss about the removal of nid's auto attack reset

DeathBurstJul 25, 20161 votes

Funny how you said back there that it was OK to pick off-meta http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ctuPaQA6-psa-playing-an-off-meta-support-is-not-trolling But you can magically tell the difference between an off-meta pick, and a troll pick, because of your extensive knowledge of the game, I suppose...

How and by the way, you mentioned in that thread that Support Sion was OK... Doubly funny, isn't it?

DryditchJul 25, 20161 votes

Here's the real solution:

Stay at Bronze 5 elo. Get so many trolls you're at 0 LP. Be winning a game Have Shaco get pissed at you for "stealing" his kill, and threaten to feed because you "stole" a kill you did all the work for. Continue playing the game and inform said trolling Shaco that his trolling is only hurting everyone else. Win game anyway and report troll.