If Riot were to prevent players from first-timing a champion in ranked...

HalcyonDweller··7 votes·600 views

Which method would you prefer? Options are included for nay-sayers too, all opinions welcome.

#Table of Contents:

  1. Survey options explained.
  2. Explanation as to why I believe this would be good to implement.
  3. Actual survey.

#The survey:

Numbers and scores are simply rough estimates, and are subject to change and debate. This is more about demonstrating a concept, I'm not trying to get into debates over whether 1 or 5 is better. That will come later.

Actual survey where you can vote for or against these is located at the end of the post.

  1. No method, it's not a problem.

  2. I don't like this because it could impact me.

  3. Achieve a specific score one or more times in normals. (Scores such as B, A, or S).

  4. 1-5 games played in any mode as that champion, scale with champion's difficulty to play. For example Garen could require 1, while Azir or Kalista might require more.

  5. Require a champion mastery level, such as mastery 1, 2 or greater before a player can use that champion in ranked.

Discuss these or share your own ideas in the comments. Also feel free to discuss potential problems with the ideas proposed and how to solve them.

Reasons this might be a good change:

Players who first-time characters that they don't know how to play significantly hamper their team's chances of winning, even Riot acknowledges this:

> Since the temptation to try new champs in ranked queues is a leading cause of lost LP, this filter only applies to non-ranked queues.

Source: Champ Select Upgrades Incoming - at the bottom of the article under the header "Hextech Chests."

By implementing some sort of barrier that prevents players from facechecking their champion's mechanics, Riot could prevent this from happening as much and could improve overall matchmaking quality. We would all have better games in ranked, and players would be less likely to feed in their ranked games.

24 Comments

Blade of Justic6 votes

At least Mastery Level 2.

Just so that you get the general jist of the champ.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

I am inclined to agree with you. Some lower level of mastery to give the player an opportunity to familiarize themselves with a champion, but not so high that they would have to grind out tons of games with it.

Teridax682 votes

I support this as well. Personally, I'd support going for an even harsher mastery limit, e.g. Mastery 5, but at least Mastery 2 could already go a long way towards players first-timing champions in Ranked.

Ambient Snow3 votes

I have to agree with champion mastery .

I would say you need to have at least a 4-5 champion mastery before you use it in ranked

Especially with new champions cause at least by this time even if you suck with this champion, at least after that many games you should have at least the basics of what that champions abilities are and what you need to do

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't champion mastery start at 0 then go up to 1, 2, onwards to 5?

Ambient Snow2 votes

yes it does.

that's I why I said you should have at least a mastery of 4-5 with the champion before you can use it in ranked.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Okay, I am inclined to disagree with you here, but I wont vote against you.

My reasons are this:

In theory I really like the idea, having people fully master champions before being allowed to take them into competitive play is a great idea. However in practice, most players would not agree to this from the start. They don't want to grind forever before being allowed into ranked.

I believe we should start small, aim for a low level mastery, like 1 or 2 because this will ensure familiarity with the champions and help to prevent the most basic fuck-ups. Allow players to get used to the idea, then if it is working well, and doing more is projected to work better then we increase it over time. This might avoid some of the backlash from players that do not welcome large changes.

La Belle Sauvage1 votes

As do I and for Bronzies and Low Silver I'd propose minimum of LVL 4, although I completely concede that is a hard line stance the community would reject.

However, it's worked for me. With a few exceptions I implemented it in myself and it's worked for me this season. I'm in the process of learning Top (the typical matchups) that is, for next season.

Shout out to the OP! Good posts Halcyon!

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Haha thanks <3 And thank you for contributing :)

I just care too much about these issues. It's really an unhealthy obsession.

DrCyanide2 votes

Worth pointing out that if there's a restriction on being able to pick champions, trading champions will be adversely effected unless you have a system to trade pick order instead.

Also worth pointing out that it changes the minimum ranked requirements from "Own 20 Champions" to "Own 20 champions that you've done X with". With that comes the requirement that the UI needs to tell you your progress towards those objectives.

I vote for the number of games, but feel that it should be limited to the mode you're on. For example, if I'm queuing up for Ranked Summoner's Rift, my 20 Ascension games as AP Ezreal might not be the best experience to dive in with. Similarly, even though I've spammed a ton of Xerath in SR, I don't think I should just go into Twisted Treeline Ranked without having played him there a few times.

Scores feel useless as a metric, since the bar isn't set for new champions and can be manipulated based on Role. Champion mastery feels like it might take too long to unlock, unless it's like 3. They don't need to be an expert at the champion, they've just got to have a pretty decent idea of what they're doing.

La Belle Sauvage1 votes

Good points here.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

{quoted}

Worth pointing out that if there's a restriction on being able to pick champions, trading champions will be adversely effected unless you have a system to trade pick order instead.

This is a great point, I hadn't even thought of anything close to this! That said, I think that players should be given that ability anyways since it certainly sounds more convenient and sounds like it would reduce chances for user error during champion select.

Also worth pointing out that it changes the minimum ranked requirements from "Own 20 Champions" to "Own 20 champions that you've done X with". With that comes the requirement that the UI needs to tell you your progress towards those objectives.

Indeed.

I vote for the number of games, but feel that it should be limited to the mode you're on. For example, if I'm queuing up for Ranked Summoner's Rift, my 20 Ascension games as AP Ezreal might not be the best experience to dive in with. Similarly, even though I've spammed a ton of Xerath in SR, I don't think I should just go into Twisted Treeline Ranked without having played him there a few times.

Scores feel useless as a metric, since the bar isn't set for new champions and can be manipulated based on Role. Champion mastery feels like it might take too long to unlock, unless it's like 3. They don't need to be an expert at the champion, they've just got to have a pretty decent idea of what they're doing.

Thanks for contributing this!

One problem that I originally heard from somebody else is: what to do about players just playing their X number of games but trolling or doing other things adverse to winning.

Should anything be tweaked about the # of games requirement? Or do you feel that the behavior and punishment system could handle those cases effectively already?

My favorite idea so far came from Arcathos who said we should require X # of games and a mastery score of A in one of those games.

DrCyanide3 votes

It someone is willing to troll X games, they'll troll X games regardless. I don't know if it matters that much, as a preventative method in place is still better than we've got.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Some potential problems to solve:

with option # 4:

  • Number of games could be too many, and an unfair grind for players to complete.

With options #4 and #5:

  • Players could just use an AI to grind matches for them.
Ambient Snow1 votes

umm your first one .. yea no.. -.- you need to play to learn.. if you gotta grind out some games fine. get it done its not like its a horrible grind like lvl 1-30 its just five mastery lvls..

your second post..

they use AI they get banned .. so umm I don't see the problem there.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mamma Prishe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a78zjPwE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-09-26T21:38:33.487+0000)

umm your first one .. yea no.. -.- you need to play to learn.. if you gotta grind out some games fine. get it done its not like its a horrible grind like lvl 1-30 its just five mastery lvls..

I merely am voicing a likely concern of people who would oppose this idea. We have to work with them to find a solution that most people would be happy with if we want this to get the attention it needs in order to be seen by a Rioter.

your second post..

they use AI they get banned .. so umm I don't see the problem there.

It will motivate players to find ways around having to play through the normal games themselves. And yes, normally using AI will get someone banned. In theory this is correct. But in practice, it will increase the strain on the system that monitors for players using AI. If the system is already capable of handling it or if the system would actually benefit from it then this is no problem.

But if the system were unable to handle that then it would result in a larger number of players using AI (without getting banned) to play normals for them. And that would ruin player experience in normal queues without solving any of the existing problems. This is why I feel it is important to recognize that there is the possibility if a problem there.

La Belle Sauvage1 votes

Hi Mamma, my tone here is civil and I realize this is unsolicited advice and a bit arrogant sounding, but typing verbal pauses in written reply never wins you any points. At best you sound sarcastic, which I gather is your aim. However, most of the time you just sound ignorant. However, Judging by your prior posts you don't seem to be ignorant.

La Belle Sauvage1 votes

It's quite difficult to prevent all unwanted workarounds though. Even if they covered the main ones I feel after an amount of time someone would find a way to exploit it.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

Absolutely true, so we must implement something that has the best chance to prevent exploits from the start, in order to best handle the problem.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Does anybody have additional ideas to suggest?

Gigglingdeath3 votes

The only other idea I'd have is an "or" system. For requirements. Aka: Get an S+ with the champion, OR 5 games minimum with an A, OR 10 games minimum with no score requirement, OR some other requirement. So that it's like a "whichever comes first" and it lets people with the skills required to "first time" a champ do so but weeds out those that really just have no idea what they are doinng

HalcyonDweller1 votes

This is a good and flexible system. I like your idea!

Gigglingdeath1 votes

The only problems I foresee with this, is if you are smurfing and FINALLY bought a champ worth 6300ip or something like that, which you main on another account and then you're not allowed to use them because you haven't played any games. Other than that, I don't think it really ruins the gaming experience, most people if they "first time" a champion in ranked, they aren't truly first timing the champ. So I'd have to go with it doesn't really affect me BUT I could understand maybe requiring at least a few normal games played with the champion beforehand (maybe 5?) with a minimum score of an A attached to ONE of the games, if it had to be implemented.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

This is a good idea, combining the good parts of several of the proposals. Thank you for contributing!

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