RIP Swain 2018

Hibeki··21 votes·2,860 views

RIP Swain, you will be missed.

This rework was a total failure. Regardless of how 'good' he is in game, they are literally nothing alike. Just make a new character.

This rework was Riot taking a Lamborghini, then removing everything but the muffler an sterring wheel, making a totally different car and calling it a Lamborghini 2.0

Literally every single defining feature about Swain was taken out.

Cane? Gone. Birds? Basically gone. Don't even notice them on the passive and thats the ONLY place where it is. Limp? Gone. Grizzled war veteran? Gone. We Lucius Malfoy now boys OH WAIT, Malfoy had a cane, so were not even him. Original ability mechanics? Gone. We Ashe W/Ahri Q/Blue trinket now boys. Decent color scheme? Gone. All black and red just like all the other 'edgy' skins like Forsaken Jayce. God forbid we have some blue, green, or purple like the original. Actual sustain in the lane phase? Gone. Tied to one small heal off of hitting a super situational E Actual ebb and flow? Gone. We're a mix of Brand and Taliyah now.

Literally the only thing similar is that there is ONE bird, an ability that retains the same name, and an ult that damages people around him. Nothing else is the same.

Make his name Niaws because you killed the real character.

48 Comments

Håppy14 votes

Best part is, they aren't going to revert this. They don't give a shit. The VGU team did their work and now they pass this steaming pile of garbage off to the balance team to work with. This is straight-up the worst rework I've ever seen, at least other champions had similar fucking visuals or themes. Cass is still a snake. Fiora's still a duellist. Urgot's still spooky and mechanical. Warwick's still a motherfucking drain-wolf. Who is this guy? Who the fuck is this new swain

trashbagz3 votes

[deleted]

Håppy3 votes

Riot on the boards: "Don't worry! We're going to be prioritizing keeping his identity as a DoT mage, we decided monster-bird-man is more interesting than Master Strategist. Something something morph in to a bird and eat them."

Riot posting the rework: "LMFAO WHAT THE FUCK IS A SWAIN"

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

Everyone can check my profile how many games i played on swain last season alone and he was one of my most successful champs up until d3/d2 where it got hard to play swain mid for me and i'm absolutely disappointed. Riot shat on leblanc players and created whatever this abomination is. Riot now took swain from me. Even if he MIGHt be fun to play ingame (which i doubt will be the case looking at his abilities, atleast for me) and neither does he look nor sound like anything. The worst offender for me is ripping out his iconic cane walk or beatrice sitting on his shoulder. Is there any reason to not let atleast ONE thing remain? It's so fuckin iconic to him and it makes me really mad, i dont care if a billion birds come when you press D for dance. I dont care that his dance move somehow still has a cane or something. It just feels sooo shitty to get these iconic things ripped from a champ. I'm not even talking about maokai who for no reason is now a brainless retarded tree who wants to SMASH because SMASH HAHAHAA.

ingame as a lot of people already pointed out he looks like vlads older brother and idk like your stereotypical teen villain idk. Draco malfoys father basically. I just hate riot at this point, i really do. Other shit that makes me hate them is fuckin gameplay obviously but these little things piss me even more off because it shows how riot thinks about their playerbase. Remember kayn being played top and balance team saying they will compensate if lane kayn is hurt? NOPE, his designer: KAYN IS DESIGNED AS A JUNGLE REEEE SO YOU PLAY HIM JUNGLE THATS HOW YOU PLAY HIM WAAAAH REEEEEE. That's what riot is currently. They shit on the player and don't give a fuck and act like children when oh lord players find a unique playstyle for themselves.

Naalith10 votes

I disagree with you. His cane and limp are gone because he now last his arm in Ionia, making a deal with Beatrice (who is still there you guys) to get a fancy new demonic arm and immense power. It basically revitalized him.

Birds: Have you seen videos with Swain? I've been playing him against a friend in custom on the PBE. His passive has birds, his W has Beatrice's eye, his ultimate he grows Raven wings as well as has Beatrice's head appear when he activates it. His recall has Beatrice fly around then go INSIDE his arm, so she's clearly there inside him. Additionally, as he walks around the map and uses abilities Ravens start to fly into terrain around him and it's absolutely awesome. Within like a screen radius of Swain there are always ravens, and I think more fly in to watch the carnage the more souls you have. He doesn't LITERALLY have a bird on his shoulder anymore, but he now has 3 abilities with birds or Beatrice's eye which, by the way, is up from two since it used to be his ult and bird yelling on the ground move.

Grizzled war veteran: Swain is still a grizzled war veteran and still was crippled in Ionia by Irelia. However, him being crippled didn't break him and led him to find a power that gave him the ability to see far more than he would've imagined. He has a quote for Irelia that basically says "you did me a service by cutting off my arm" and that's because he never would've found Beatrice otherwise. Just because he's not "oh whoa is me I'm a grizzled old man who's seen some shit" he's actively taking what he's seen, not letting it break him, and single handedly trying to steer his nation away from destruction. It's badass.

Original ability mechanics - He still has a mana refund, a root, an AOE long lasting lifesteal ultimate, as well as some new abilities. Swain used to be a point and click AOE champion and he's actually interesting now, it's not like Galio where they took a mage champ and turned them into a tank champ. He's still a drain mage and has more tools to do so.

Decent color scheme - I think this is your only valid point and it's only because Vladimir exists. He is extremely badass on his own but I wish they had kept his brown hair and had some other colors to his model. Other than maybe being samey to Vladimir, it's not half bad and demons as far as we know have their color palettes based on personality. Evelynn is a flirtatious pink and Tahm is a grimey green man who suckers people in, Beatrice is clearly extremely powerful and has no regard for human life. It fits, even if you don't like it or think it's close to Vladimir. Plus he still turns into a bird with the Tyrant skin for old times sake.

Sustain in laning phase: If you mean mana sustain, yeah he's easier to run out of mana with now. As far as health though? Sure his ult has a cooldown now and you can't just turn it on to get HP back, but his E can be used to get health as well as CC from a jungler gank. His ultimate now only helps him sustain now but pushes for kills with the second part of the ult damage.

Ebb and flow: Subjective. I personally think old Swain was pretty lackluster but now he can trade better, be more useful in teamfights, push to kill his lane opponent easier with CC, etc.

At the end of the day it just depends on who you ask, but lots of us here like new Swain. I feel bad you feel like you lost a champion, but in my opinion this is one of the best reworks Riot has done surpassed only by Evelynn and maybe Warwick. If you want to see an absolutely horrible rework look at Galio, who changed classes as well as personality immensely, or Trundle who literally lost everything interesting about him, moved across the continent, became an ice troll, and lost his sarcasm and wit.

Blitzidious3 votes

The only thing disappointing me about his rework is the lack of DoT. DoT is what made me love him, and it's gone now. I hope they add it back before he's released to live servers, but I can deal with this more 'bursty' Swain.

Florïen Black2 votes

I do agree, but I'd still love to see the cane make a return. its as much a part of the character as the hat is to Twisted Fate or Graves' cigar.

Hextech OwI7 votes

"Hurr durr it isn't like I want it to be so it's shit"

Hibeki6 votes

'hurr durr literally nothing is the same other than his name so it must be a good change'

Kiss riots ass more.

You cannot expect me to show me a completely different person with the same name and expect me to think they are the same person. They aren't. They killed the original, good character and replaced him with a Vlad wannabe.

ModWulf Helhammer6 votes

It's almost like people refuse to understand what "FULL RELAUNCH " means.

Being almost a completely new champion is literally the entire point.

Hibeki9 votes

Then make a new fucking champion instead of destroying a currently existing one that was neglected for 5 years

Warwick was a full relaunch. And they did an amazing job. And they kept all the defining features of the champion.

Even full relaunches that weren't the best like Galio and Urgot still kept more than Swain. Urgot was still a mechanical legged weirdo and Galio was still a gargoyle.

Swain is acompletely different person, and still offensively refer to him as a 'grizzled war veteran' even though hes clearly not.

ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

He was neglected for a reason. Problem champions are downplayed until something can be done to systemically fix them. That's why Galio, Poppy, and Yorick were all basically trashcanned until their reworks, because they had issues that go beyond numbers, be that something to do with gameplay mechanics or how they don't mesh with the idea of what the champion is supposed to be.

Hibeki5 votes

Except Swain wasn't even a problem champion. Making him a fucking skin or giving him a small buff wouldn't have broken him.

He was broken on the mini rework because his numbers were too high. Then they nerfed him too hard and he wasn't touched again.

ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

or how they don't mesh with the idea of what the champion is supposed to be.

Did you miss that part?

Swain's fantasy was a brilliant strategist and tactician. His gameplay was turn into a drain tank and walk into the middle of everyone.

That is a mismatch that can't be fixed with number tuning.

As for skins, I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that it was actually his limp that made making skins for him harder (as well as finding an appropriate thematic), similarly to how Zac is hard to make skins for due to his constantly shifting model

Hibeki4 votes

Except he was a tactician, his lane phase had an amazing ebb and flow due to the structure of his abilities and how their order completely changed when synergized.

If you have actually played swain for a long period of time, you would realize this.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Wolf King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a6ugRdJ9,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-24T00:46:59.066+0000)

Did you miss that part?

Swain's fantasy was a brilliant strategist and tactician. His gameplay was turn into a drain tank and walk into the middle of everyone.

That is a mismatch that can't be fixed with number tuning.

As for skins, I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that it was actually his limp that made making skins for him harder (as well as finding an appropriate thematic), similarly to how Zac is hard to make skins for due to his constantly shifting model

His old gameplay was a "drain tank and walk into the middle of everyone", and no, I don't really count the rest of his kit because besides the AoE root he may as well have nothing else outside of ulti (I guess some people like him for the DoT, but I never really consider it to have much impact on his play).

In fact, his rework added in elements of strategist and tactician now as opposed to before, given he now has a W that allows him to have very good scouting potential.

I swear, the people who moan the loudest about rework are the people who have no idea who the champ even was and is.

GeminiRune1 votes

They took out the association with Soraka! That was what mattered to me!

VICKLIUS1 votes

I agree with you all they needed to do was

pass: regen hp or mana 2+lv%(which ever lower ) based on dmg dealt

q : add a blind and silence (animation Beatrice goes to targets in area and pecks them ) would also make landing his W feel much more impactful

w: cd 10sec all ranks, decrease range 700 to but increase radius t0 325 so can lead w/ e for the bonus dmg, an if catch enemy champ gain ms so can go in or out of fight

e: increase range to 700 make it an aoe burst radius 325 with "WHILE marked dmg to swain is reduced by 20% dmg by swain increased by 20%, and if target DIES furture dmg is increased by 5%,& if target kills swain their future dmg to swain is reduced by 5%" an it gets quotes, kill: "this time was easy enough, next time will be even easier", died "you won this battle, but you will lose the war." (Q interact Beatrice does 2X dmg as beam animation )

r:needs when hit send out another raven at attacker(increase mana cost/for current mana cost) to counter that he can only send one every other second his Q,E needed 7sec cd since they act over 4 seconds

xrayNo4 votes

really weird, i thought reworks are reworks not rebuild a completely champion...makes no fucking sense, you could also have just released this as a new champion because they are nothing alike.

Lightning I3 votes

All black and red just like all the other 'edgy' skins like Forsaken Jayce. God

It's the new direction riot is taking now: League of edgy anime

Edit: coughs weebs coughs

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

It really is. From xayah rakan over kayne now swain. They all look, act and feel the same. All straight out of a teenager. Catering towards a group of people is one thing but enough is really enough especially when riot doesnt even let you play the champs how you want them to play: Kayn top for example and his designer goes all REEEEEE b b b but he is a JENGLAAA.

Lightning I1 votes

Exactly. Tell me what was wrong about good ol' Swain design? nothing.

Oxyrotten3 votes

I haven't played him yet but I don't think I will have a problem with his design persay, but I absolutely loathe that they keep retconning and rewriting fluff.

Like honestly why not just make a new champ? Like Swain's apprentice or something, anything other than rewrite major parts of his lore. Like it wouldn't have been hard to work out a new champ, and then you could have some team synergy even (probably OP but that's not the point).

There was a thread I just read that was heartbreaking, some guy whose fav champ was swain because he uses a cane irl and felt a connection with swain and his persona. But Riot doesn't give a shit about the story or game or players, it's all about the money and being edgy pays.

Rexxiee3 votes

Terrible rework indeed, they killed swain and made a new champion thats basically another vlad/edgy warlock named "swain".

Elphrihaim2 votes

{quoted} Original ability mechanics? Gone. We Ashe W/Ahri Q/Blue trinket now boys.

And this is different from the old kit how?

The current kit is a targetted spell, AoE circle with delay, and a deploy-zone. Sure, Beatrice was not, but for non-waveclear purposes, she might as well have been just a DPS pool ala Tormented Soil. :|

Hibeki3 votes

The current kit is a targeted dot that boosts other abilities. I cannot think of any other champion that has something similar (Other than the ability is also targeted)

His W is an AOE root, with a significant delay and decent damage. Again, no one else in the game has a ranged root that is also AOE.

His Q was an area denial tool that was not an ultimate or something that lacked counterplay. Yes, gangplank barrel exists but its also a minigame and when used correctly lacks counterplay.

The difference between the two was GP barrel denied and area and let him fuck you when you didn't respect that. Q was flexible, it could be used for the slow, it could be used as area denial, or to aid his all in.

These abilities are unique enough. The problem is the new abilities are practically copy pasted which gives absolutely no originality. If you can say "Its ashe W except it restores mana instead of slows" then its poorly designed.

Paroe2 votes

{quoted}

The current kit is a targeted dot that boosts other abilities. I cannot think of any other champion that has something similar (Other than the ability is also targeted)

His W is an AOE root, with a significant delay and decent damage. Again, no one else in the game has a ranged root that is also AOE.

His Q was an area denial tool that was not an ultimate or something that lacked counterplay. Yes, gangplank barrel exists but its also a minigame and when used correctly lacks counterplay.

The difference between the two was GP barrel denied and area and let him fuck you when you didn't respect that. Q was flexible, it could be used for the slow, it could be used as area denial, or to aid his all in.

These abilities are unique enough. The problem is the new abilities are practically copy pasted which gives absolutely no originality. If you can say "Its ashe W except it restores mana instead of slows" then its poorly designed.

Thats a fallacy because it can be applied to EVERYONE.

Swains new kit is unique - VERY unique. His Q is a multi projectile cone that has conditional pass-through that restores mana. His W is a long range AoE slow that gives him a stack of his passive. His E is a two part skillshot that initially passes through and then stops on the first enemy hit. His R is an aura that damages enemies and heals him before dealing a large amount of burst damage.

The new swain is fantastic. Instead of bitching about his new kit (HELLO its a relaunch morons! Relaunches are VGUs that also rewrite lore!) bitch about how riot lied to us about their goals for swain and their willingness to retain some of what swain is. And also for making him look like lucius malfoy TO A T. https://images.pottermore.com/bxd3o8b291gf/3ix7bMj0n6YyUMQmqCWKgY/9c24d1af9b1205e2bac60b0b025e12c8/LuciusMalfoy_WB_F2_LuciusMalfoyMidshot_V1_Promo_080615_Port.jpg?w=1200

Hibeki2 votes

The problem is the new abilities are practically copy pasted which gives absolutely no originality. If you can say "Its ashe W except it restores mana instead of slows" then its poorly designed.

Seems you completely glossed this over

Jinzo Torrance2 votes

Classic VGU, nothing new to be honest, they like deleting champion and retconning their lore after it

DoktorKaiser2 votes

While Swain was heavily reworked, his lore is still similar, he looks similar , yes I will miss the light colors but honestly he looks really cool in that outfit and his skins are improved a lot. I don't specifically like his abilites or how they look since its awfully similar to Vlad. Beatrice is still there but not as a part of his model, the birds are still present but again I would like them to be more around when he ults at least. Nevermove survived the rework as well which makes me happy since its the best pun in the history of puns. Anyway its an ok rework, I dislike his hairstyle, he could still be walking with a cane easily, idk why they couldn't implement that, I will also miss some of his VO such as "if we approach strategically from the flank... oh who am I kidding lets just morph and eat them" which is one of the funniest lines tbh.

Overall I understand why hardcore mains are frustrated, but you should be happy that he didn't get Galio-ed , Galio was quite literally deleted with almost not a single trace of him left in this game. At least Swain got to keep Nevermove, his lore which was improved tbh, he actually looks good (Galio looks moronic), his VO is nice but so is the old one and his theme is mostly intact. I just wish the cane and limping remained along with some jokes and a bit more raven theme in his ultimate.

OF COURSE RITO THIS COULD BE FIXED WITH A FUCKING TRADITIONAL SKIN BUT FUCK THE MAINS OF UNPOPULAR CHAMPIONS AMIRITE ???

Hibeki1 votes

Except galio had nothing to him to begin with, no kit synergy other than WR.

He was just a gargoyle, who...did things. And gust wind.

And they kept that.

They kept literally nothing of old swain besides a sunfire cape and a bird on passive that didnt even need to be there at all

DoktorKaiser4 votes

Well thats bullshit, you obviously didn't play Galio very much. As someone who mained Galio and played a fuckton of Swain, I say that Galio rework removes 10 times more essence of what the champion was. Not saying that I am fully happy with Swain rework, but there are some good things, if they just changed his hair, added Beatrice and the fucking cane so we can feel just a bit better about the rework...

Edit - and change the fucking ulti to being a full raven ffs...

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

Well thats bullshit, you obviously didn't play Galio very much. As someone who mained Galio and played a fuckton of Swain, I say that Galio rework removes 10 times more essence of what the champion was. Not saying that I am fully happy with Swain rework, but there are some good things, if they just changed his hair, added Beatrice and the fucking cane so we can feel just a bit better about the rework...

His E should be him directing a demon bird, and he should be holding the cane in his off hand. Beatrice should also be clearly visible within the flock (just a raven with beatrices eyes mostly...)

Hibeki1 votes

There really wasnt anything to remove from galio, other than his gameplay role. Hes a fighter now not a caster.

Like seriously, what did they take away? Laser eyes that didn't really do anything or add to his other abilities?

A shield that restored health to only him? Nothing in his kit had synergy, it was just Throw out a Q here, E somewhere else, Shield your carry as a support or shield yourself when you ult

hazerddex1 votes

good lord its like the so called Xerath fans when xerath got his relaunch despite the old xeraths kit being complete trash compared to his new one. people for some reason wanted his useless old w back.

{quoted}

It really is. From xayah rakan over kayne now swain. They all look, act and feel the same. All straight out of a teenager. Catering towards a group of people is one thing but enough is really enough especially when riot doesnt even let you play the champs how you want them to play: Kayn top for example and his designer goes all REEEEEE b b b but he is a JENGLAAA.

the game is rated T not M

Hibeki4 votes

Thats not even close to an accurate comparison. Xerath had ability changes, his theme and core remained the same.

If you read the post, literally nothing of the original character is left but a single bird and his name.

Thats hardly a rework. Its a new champion.

hazerddex1 votes

{quoted}

Thats not even close to an accurate comparison. Xerath had ability changes, his theme and core remained the same.

If you read the post, literally nothing of the original character is left but a single bird and his name.

Thats hardly a rework. Its a new champion.

that is exactly the same complaint some had about xerath because all his abilities changed.

this new kit gives him more of the feeling of a commander then the old one. he can give vision he can pull enemies stunned by others. he can even snare enemies. literalyl the only complain i have with his new kit is his lost burn. other then that he looks fine.

Hibeki3 votes

Then you have no respect for a character, simply put.

Just because you like the changes doesn't mean that they are the same person.

hazerddex1 votes

{quoted}

Then you have no respect for a character, simply put.

Just because you like the changes doesn't mean that they are the same person.

also he still has the cane he still has the bird.

and if the old skin is all you care about then them making a character viable again after they destroyed spell vamp then i have to say you have even less respect for a character.

just ask for a legacy skin plenty of reworked champions got them in the past.

Hibeki2 votes

Have you even seen the VGU? He doesn't have the cane or the bird

Paroe3 votes

{quoted}

Have you even seen the VGU? He doesn't have the cane or the bird

Have you? Its not a huge thing but theyre still there. He has a cane in his dance, the bird is in his back animation, and his passive literally spawns ravens nearby him on the terrain.

{quoted}

Seems you completely glossed this over

And you seem not to understand the fallacy of "if x can be similar to x then its bad" because if you go by that logic we only have ~5 or so "totally unique champions". I explained to you why the abilities are unique, you can hold your "WHAAA" all you want but it doesnt change the facts that there are no abilities exactly like or that function like Lucius swains currently in the game.

hazerddex2 votes

{quoted}

Have you even seen the VGU? He doesn't have the cane or the bird

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&v=XY1cXx0le2s clearly you have not

also they changed his color scheme to make him mesh with the other Noxian's such as

Darius Katarina Draven Talon

Florïen Black1 votes

there is some truth to that.

Florïen Black1 votes

Well I would love to see him getting his cane and limp back. that really was a part of his character. im fine with the rest of the changes

freekyz1 votes

Completely agree. The swain rework is a completely new champ. Terrible rework. swain now has No Dot NO aoe root and his ult healing is super weak. As a swain main for 3 years I now have to relearn this so called "swain" completely and play a completely new playstyle. extremely sad.

More from Gameplay

More by Hibeki