Even though 
are quite good. I don't get it.
"Adcs get one shot by everything" Yeah no shit. If you build full dmg, you're gonna be squishy, holy moly it's a revelation. Game's dmg creeped so bad that everything one shots everything.
saltran7 votesWell, I always wondered if it was Hashinshin or the Gameplay Boards who hated the most adcs.
You guys won, be proud.
Hethalean5 votes"These adc's are quite good!" proceeds to list champions with 47% win rate
option paralysis3 votes"These adc's are quite good!" proceeds to list champions with 47% win rate
there are 64 champs under 50% win rate, they're all bad then, not just adcs, if you wanna look at it like that.
Hethalean2 votes[{quoted}](name=option paralysis,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a4upgjsV,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-11-26T23:35:06.299+0000)
there are 64 champs under 50% win rate, they're all bad then, not just adcs, if you wanna look at it like that.
There's a difference between under 50% win rate and 3% below average. For instance, 49.5% win rate? below 50%? Might be fine depending on many other factors.
53% win rate? Getting pretty high, yet people see 53% as way more out of line than 47% for some reason. No one would argue that someone who is 53% win rate as 'bad', and I think it should go to show that 47% can't really be 'good'.
chipndip11 votes...so buff Akali?
Hethalean1 votes...so buff Akali?
How does saying they're not good mean buff them?
I would buff Akali for a couple reasons. First, she's insanely obnoxious. I'm surprised that her shroud made it out the door, but CertainlyT more or less admitted he doesn't care about fun to play against. He only cares if it is 'unique', and ignoring towers is unique. Second, I don't think champions that are high risk and high reward (assassins) should sit at > 50% win rate. If you're risking a ton, you probably shouldn't succeed most often.
chipndip11 votesSo then why are you complaining about marksmen that are under 50% win rate?
Hethalean2 votesSo then why are you complaining about marksmen that are under 50% win rate?
I'm not complaining. I was laughing at some of the selection of marksmen saying they are good. Hopefully you understand the difference between pointing out when someone says "This is good." with "No it is not." is not the same as "omg why isn't this better." The two I listed are low win rate. One is pretty much bottom of every measurement I find (Xayah) like damage done, deaths, cs, and the like. Then Kaisa is only not bottom because she's played a lot and still CS's somehow. Doesn't do top damage. Doesn't win early. etc etc.
Then all of the follow up was simply explaining why I said they are not good. Again, hopefully you comprehend how that isn't complaining that they are weak. It's simply explaining that they are weak which is the opposite of them 'being good'. Unless of course you want to rationalize that as complaining, then that is your interpretation I guess. however, don't really care if they remain weak or not despite me playing them. It seems like it's your job to strawmen people though. Hopefully it pays well.
0 Hogapu2 votesWinrate being a opie/weak champion indicator is a thing now ?
Hethalean1 votes[{quoted}](name=MTFN Azor ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a4upgjsV,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-11-26T23:39:47.241+0000)
Winrate being a opie/weak champion indicator is a thing now ?
No, it's not an end all be all indicator. But when it gets that out of line, it usually is a heavily weighted one. For instance, if some champion is 60% win rate, do we really need to look at other factors at whether or not it is strong?
10% is not 3%, but 3% is still very out of line. Especially when lots of people play it, and the champion isn't new. Especially for one of those examples, that champion (Xayah) is at the bottom of every statistic for adcs, barely beating out Kalista
Doge20201 votesMake sure to factor in play rates and ban rates as well. A champ having a 60% win rate is very alarming, but would say that the champ is balanced or even bad if it has a 3% play rate and that the only people that play that champ is onetricks and mains.
Hethalean1 votesMake sure to factor in play rates and ban rates as well. A champ having a 60% win rate is very alarming, but would say that the champ is balanced or even bad if it has a 3% play rate and that the only people that play that champ is onetricks and mains.
That's very true, but if you are winning 60% of your games, you should climb until you're artificially higher than you need to be playing against people who are just better at league (then your mastery of your champion doesn't get you that 60% over your opponents). That's why 60% typically doesn't last out over any length of time really in a statistically significant manner to show up that way in data aggregate sites.
Doge20201 votesI used 60% as the win rate of a champ that is not played by a large amount of people, the only people that would play this example champ are onetricks that really know the matchups and everything with the champ. And because of this they tend to win their games more than other players that don’t have as much knowledge of the champ.
You are right when talking about an individual player’s winrate, but I was talking about a group of people playing a certain champ. You were taking my example a little bit too seriously, I made up random numbers to get the idea that a high winrate looks problematic, but becomes less so when you also see that a very very very small amount of people (with very deep knowledge of the champ’s mechanics and matchup situations) play the champ.
Hethalean1 votesI used 60% as the win rate of a champ that is not played by a large amount of people, the only people that would play this example champ are onetricks that really know the matchups and everything with the champ. And because of this they tend to win their games more than other players that don’t have as much knowledge of the champ.
You are right when talking about an individual player’s winrate, but I was talking about a group of people playing a certain champ. You were taking my example a little bit too seriously, I made up random numbers to get the idea that a high winrate looks problematic, but becomes less so when you also see that a very very very small amount of people (with very deep knowledge of the champ’s mechanics and matchup situations) play the champ.
Fair enough
0 Hogapu1 votesOk right
you say a 60% winrate is grossly overpowered right ?
60-50 = 10
so now if wefollow ur thing for a grossly underpowered champion that has 50-10 = 40% winra...
wait ryze had 41% winrate and still was dominant for so fucking long in both pro plays and high elo games (and still is) your argument can't be valid
Hethalean1 votes[{quoted}](name=MTFN Azor ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=a4upgjsV,comment-id=0000000100000001,timestamp=2018-11-28T17:10:07.200+0000)
Ok right
you say a 60% winrate is grossly overpowered right ? 60-50 = 10 so now if wefollow ur thing for a grossly underpowered champion that has 50-10 = 40% winra...wait ryze had 41% winrate and still was dominant for so fucking long in both pro plays and high elo games (and still is) your argument can't be valid
ok because pros only play grossly overpowered soloq champions.
BestPudgeNA1 votes"These adc's are quite good!" proceeds to list champions with 47% win rate
Only 3 of those champs are below 50% 2 of the ones below 50% at Kai and EZ at 49% if you think Kai'sa is balanced just yikes The only one at 47.5% is Xayah and she a top tier pick at worlds so i'm gonna have to go with she isn't bad either and it's a player skill issue.
Dynikus1 votesWait, are you trying to say Kai'sa is OP right now? [sg-lux-2]
BestPudgeNA1 votesWait, are you trying to say Kai'sa is OP right now? [sg-lux-2]
No i'm saying anyone who thinks Kai'sa isn't OP has very poor reasoning skills
Dynikus2 votesKai'sa is in a really bad spot right now. Really not sure what you're talking about.
BestPudgeNA1 votesKai'sa is in a really bad spot right now. Really not sure what you're talking about.
Yikes
Dynikus3 voteshttps://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Kaisa/historic/
The only yikes is still complaining about kai'sa in the current patch. 
changes were really bad for her.
chipndip12 votesPeople do this all the time. They're still banning Irelia when Karthus is out here death singing and shit.
OmegaNITRO1 votesWell, pretty sure Pudge's reasoning has been based on 8.10 for the past 6 months, so no surprise here.
OtterlyLost4 votesWhy are you even listing Xayah in that? She's the lowest winrate ADC at the moment, even beating Kalista in that regard. Ezreal also isn't doing amazing considering he's one of the safest ADCs in the game with a variety of builds that makes him flexible; usually he would be doing much better even in an assassin/bruiser meta. Kai'sa, despite the board hate boner for her, is also pretty low in the wr list after the changes to Guinsoos. Draven is only really played by 1 tricks because he's a champion that pretty much requires you to 1 trick him to be good. The only ADC on that list that is completely over tuned is Lucian and that's because Lucian is always problematic. MF, Sivir, and Jhin are the only ADCs you listed who I would consider doing solidly.
Rester2 votesADCs are glass cannons, of course they're gonna be squishy and one-shotable by a fed enemy.
Dr Dog2 votesjhin is meh at most, draven is dogshit against most of the meta supports rn mainly thresh and is only really good if your good as him, xayah has been awful since the reaver change, kaisa got hit really hard with the rageblade nerfs, lucian should even be in there because the argument isnt that all adcs suck, its that crit adcs suck not to mention lucian only really being good because of him getting buffed for 3 patches over his new skin then never getting nerfed, sivir is the only actually good example ill give you that and mf has been broken for awhile because shes a dark harvest and lethality abuser along with her being a lane bully with great raw dmg plus she still doesnt fall under the crit adc category which like i said is the main complaint
Dynikus1 votes is straight broken right now
are okay
will always be somewhat meta
but yes, overall ADCs are in a very bad spot in the current meta. Karthus is doing a better job as a botlane carry than most ADCs are. ADCs exist in the current meta to secure dragon and baron, and that's about it. I'd go as far as to say the only reason most adcs have average winrates is because their laning opponents are also playing something weak.
Even Hashinshin is agreeing that ADCs suck right now.
Pachyderm1 votesOn the bright side, queue times for ranked bottom are in a pretty good spot right now.
hi ìm groot1 votesI like how you think adc's are strong still, yet you don't know which of the adc's are meta lol. You actually did name off some of the lowest win rate adc's. Shit heimer and karthus are the two highest win rate bot laners right now because of how "good" adc's are.