Let's (actually) go over the history of 'Devourer' (Item line)

Dominick Destine··88 votes·4,349 views

(I am not googling/wiking any of this but rather going off of memory, like the incredibly [insert forbidden words here] that I am)

In the old days, aprox. S2, there was a significant lack of AD / auto attacking junglers, a combination of NO jungle exclusive items with somewhat weaker monsters was too overwhelming for champions like LeeSin Shyvana XinZhao which Riot wanted to be strong junglers. This was in an era where junglers like Amumu Alistar Rammus Fiddlesticks were extremely dominant and ever-present. Riot wanted more variety and thus sought to change the paradigm.

To this end, in order to boost the viability of these unplayed jungle characters , an item called "WRIGGLES LANTERN" was created. This item had some life-steal, AD and armor... but also a special proc 20% of the time which did 500 physical damage to minions and monsters, this gave it huge boosts of sustain while fighting since you could lifesteal from the 500 damage proc. On top of that, it held 1 , 3 minute duration ward every 3 minutes (right?).

Because of the combination of

  • Life steal (Amplified by minion/monster proc)
  • Free ward coverage
  • AD/Armor combination

It became a staple for pretty much every TOP LANER in the game since it effectively won you lane every time.

Thus, Wriggle's Proc was nerfed to NOT be physical. Later, Wriggle's Proc was nerfed to NOT affect minions but only monsters. Later, Wriggle's AD/Armor were both nerfed. Later, Wriggle's lifesteal was also nerfed, lowered to a flat value. Later, Wriggle's cost was increased.

And after all of those nerfs, it was finally slowing down its ubiquitousness... but of course, the nerfs piled on and the item became underpowered , unable to compete with the then new JUNGLE ITEMS like Elder Lizard, Ancient Golem, etc.

The item was insanely "problematic" and thus it had to be buried.

Because of this in S3(ish?) they 'reworked' into a transitional item which added stacks , almost identical to the modern "Devourer ----> Sated Devourer", back then it was "Wriggle's Lantern" (Utter shit stats) and after 25 stacks (or so ish) it became FERAL FLARE.

Feral Flare was an infinitely scaling item which gave 1 point of magic damage on-hit plus base value (40 initially but later reduced to 25) ... it also initially gave ONE HEALTH per stack , on-hit... meaning that at 50 stacks, you gained 50 health, it was not lifesteal but rather direct health gain similar to Xin Zhao's self-heal. This meant you could tank turrets indefinitely with enough stacks just by striking it over and over.

Naturally the healing portion was completely removed... but the damage was still very high and thus, it had to be curtailed by increasing the cost of the item, increasing the required stats and reducing the base stats of the item and the final form.

Eventually Feral Flare was outright removed because it was deemed impossible to balance.

However Riot wanted to try again and this occurred with a re-balancing of jungle items in S4/S5, this led to the creation of "Devourer" which was the spiritual successor to Feral Flare, minus the (flimsy but still present) sustain (5 health per strike) and the lovely ward.

Devourer was easier to balance because it was self-contained, it had only attack speed and magic damage but it was , once again deemed too powerful due to its infinitely scaling function and was eventually reworked into our modern day.

Devourer ------> Sated Devourer

By limiting the upper cap of the item they were able to prevent edge cases of abuse by hard-farming, hard-ganking champions that would scale harder than Riot intended. However to make the item have value they added a power spike upon reaching the stack cap. Sated Devourer's compromise was precisely that it would lose the infinite scaling in exchange for a power spike that has shown to be too powerful.

Because of this we will likely see the eventual removal of Devourer and have it reworked into yet another iteration of the same item that has continually shown to be nearly impossible to balance. It is always either brokenly overpowered or brokenly underpowered.

Basically what I'm trying to say is; NERF YASUO PLS ROIT. WTF. gg

64 Comments

Dehorn25 votes

devourer makes 3-4 out of 130 champs a nightmare to balance. there is no reason to cause this many problems for just 3-4 champs. it should be removed. this is coming from someone with devourer Warwick and Udyr as my most played champs.

also keep in mind: XinZhao Shyvana Jax - work with warrior or cinderhulk MasterYi Kindred - work with warrior Udyr - uses runic echoes Warwick - needs a rework anyway (RIP)

theres no reason to keep devourer in the game.

TotalJerk10 votes

Udyr and Jax I'd argue could potentially use all 4 enchantments depending on their current stat buff/nerf states.

Dehorn1 votes

indeed.

Apollogy1 votes

WW can use all 4 as well, but without devourer, you're forced to suspend your power spike until your second item is completed, which must be a damage item.

Unless maybe you go cinderhulk into botrk, and don't finish cinderhulk until later, however, with the increase in the price of Wit's End and Botrk, that's still going to be a delayed power spike. It also doesn't reward WW for being a farming jungler, you'll need to power farm to get enough gold to get your botrk in 12 minutes or less... but it's certainly not as strong of an item as a devourer that has two power spikes and synergy with WW's usually build and his kit...

Idk... WW doesn't do damage without devourer. To trade devourer for another on hit item, his already slow game is slowed more so.

If they remove devourer, at the very least, they'll need to buff the AD scaling on his ultimate. Then WW can go warrior, which offers CDR and quicker ulting, and build into botrk for a hybrid AD/AS/On-Hit build, and then build situational tank or bruiser such as black cleaver, titanic, dead man, spirit visage, etc...

Of course WW needs a rework, but if they removed devourer, they'd need to compensate WW in some way... The only viable build that offers a consistent damage output other than on-hit WW is AP WW. The AD scaling is too low on his ultimate, so building AD WW just doesn't work... The best you could do is maybe a cinderhulk into black cleaver and then pure tank from there, to get 40% CDR quickly, and just be used for utility, no longer being a bruising assassin.

Saphixia1 votes

Hello, I am an Australian Warwick main For a start, that very first paragraph is absolutely correct. Second, I have tried getting smite upgrade, botrk, then cinderhulk, but it is really not worth it Third, the old Magus and the Less old Runeglaive actually worked very well on him. Infact if i am ever against a 4 bruiser/All AD team than i will sometimes go item 1414 item 3025 item 3157item 3151 item 3065 item 3102 as it is actually a pretty good build that can be surprisingly fun. Fourth paragraph, i agree with, especially the bruiser warrior idea. Fifth, pls dont rework my baby. Yes he deletes squishies with his ult q combo. Yes, his ults AD scaling is low af. But no going pure tank Warwick is probably the worst idea there is. It makes his e almost useless (due to not needing to find people but instead needing to take damage)and his ult is a bad engage tool in teamfights (although in 2v2's and some 3v3's its good)Although his Q and w are good for Healing and taking turrets faster, his kit just isnt that of a tank.

Apollogy1 votes

Finally someone who gets it...

The people in NA or EUW that I've talked to all believe WW is a tank. D:

You usually build tanky items on him, but that's not because he's a tank, more so that he's a bruiser/fighter.

AP WW is always a lot of fun, and you've got a very interesting build for it. I'd typically take Will of the Ancients and Abyssal Sceptor, since they're both cheap items. Spirit Visage is a must on AP WW.

Although, most games you don't reach your 6th item, and usually your 5th is difficult to get to as well. You'll need boots, usually MR boots to avoid burst and being locked down with AP WW. His ultimate doesn't do much damage, (unless you're full AP and get Nashor's tooth, but then you're too squishy).

I don't want WW to be reworked unless they stay true to who WW is, and judging by how many people don't really understand WW, I doubt a rework will be acceptable to us WW mains, lol.

And most people say his ult is great engage... rip D:

D3m37r11 votes

They both scale with every offensive stat in the game.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

That's the thing about these champs: They get powerful because of synergy with the item rather than the item itself. Back when Sated was first released, Aatrox was OP with it, Kayle was OP with it, Diana was OP with it, Fizz was (hidden) OP with it, and even Trundle became a larger monster than he already was. Hell, even some laners got it, got Sated at 30 minutes, and it was completely worth to get the item because you already won. However, now, while all of these are still viable options, they're no longer instawin after 20 minutes. Now, only champs like Shyv, Master Yi, and Udyr, who all have great synergy with the item, are in that overly strong category.

Celestial Lion122 votes

The really op one with it was Vayne once you got that shit sated gg of course your clears sucked and your ganks sucked but once you finally managed to get sated it didnt matter how far behind you were

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

I was kinda referencing her in the "laners who use Devourer" list, but she could also technically play jungle.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

devourer makes 3-4 out of 130 champs a nightmare to balance. there is no reason to cause this many problems for just 3-4 champs. it should be removed. this is coming from someone with devourer Warwick and Udyr as my most played champs.

also keep in mind: XinZhao Shyvana Jax - work with warrior or cinderhulk MasterYi Kindred - work with warrior Udyr - uses runic echoes Warwick - needs a rework anyway (RIP)

theres no reason to keep devourer in the game.

Yi does not work with Warrior. Damage Yi needs AS, MS, critical strike, AD, life steal, all of the things a ranged carry needs, PLUS a little beef so he can survive long enough to get more than three hits off.

Fiora doesn't need AD to kill people. Yasuo only needs two crit items and he has two shields. Gangplank's Crits ignore armor and are ranged. And Yi...Yi is unplayable without Devourer.

Dehorn1 votes

"Yi is unplayable without Devourer."

how would you even know? you've never played yi with warrior. we've seen pros play yi mid, obviously without devourer. even YOU played yi in lane... without devourer. we can see your match history... cmon dude. yet hes unplayable right?

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

"Yi is unplayable without Devourer."

how would you even know? you've never played yi with warrior. we've seen pros play yi mid, obviously without devourer. even YOU played yi in lane... without devourer. we can see your match history... cmon dude. yet hes unplayable right?

I did play him with Warrior, I just play a lot of games and most of them are Nunu so it's not in my most recent string of matches.

I had about 300-320 AD and 60% crit chance and I was still dying before I could kill anyone.

When I played him mid, I split pushed all game. Turning the game into a 4v5 isn't desirable either.

WookieJesuz1 votes

unfortunately its balanced on some champs, but u know. Kayle.

Sentinos1 votes

Or I mean, we could keep the OP jungle items. Just a thought. You know...

Dominick Destine17 votes

I expected this would get at least equal response to the complete non-thread that was "Let's talk about the history of devourer" (Talks about extremely recent changes/epic fail).

You have failed me, "The Boards". I miss the forums, "The Boards" sucks.

Saianna6 votes

Someone forgot about:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/d/d2/Madred's_Bloodrazor_item.png/revision/20130319090643

This item was meant to be used for attack speed reliant champions.

Hinagiku331 votes

Pretty sure that was reworked into: item 3153

It's had some modifications but it started as a replacement for Madred's Bloodrazor

Saianna2 votes

That's correct, BUT!

One of it's key components was "Madreds Razors" which was stricte jungle item.

Btw, Madreds Bloodrazors used to be "Infinite Ede for AS reliant champions". Now BotRK is just next generic AS item you get before or after IE.

Here is my sauce: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Madred's_Bloodrazor

Akesgeroth1 votes

Bloodrazor was more of an item you got on on-hit reliant champions. Warwick, but also Jax, Teemo and Kayle.

foinhas5 votes

just some fixes on OP's post:

lantern exists since season 1, it was NOT created in season 2 because on-hit champs were weak.

Lee, shyvana and shako were THE strongest junglers in season 2. they were able to get level 2 (or 3 in shalo's case) wayyy before the lane. Ever wondered why every single season (except the current one) jungle monster were buffed beyound believe? it was to prevent the early lvl2 ganks.

Dominick Destine3 votes

{quoted}

Lee, shyvana and shako were THE strongest junglers in season 2.

Fair point, I forgot to mention Shaco.

But no, Lee and Shyvana were complete garbo in most of S2... Lee even needed buffs across the board to even be somewhat viable.

foinhas3 votes

All lee's buffs were given to him in season 1 (when he came out), not season 2

Spoofghoul4 votes

You mean all lee was given were buffs untill the end of time

Zedex2 votes

Shyv had one of the fastest clears in S2 and was nerfed as a result though.

Xonra1 votes

{quoted}

Shyv had one of the fastest clears in S2 and was nerfed as a result though.

Which is when she became a highly played top laner fairly quickly.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Lee even needed buffs across the board to even be somewhat viable.

Lee was weak(or atleast precived as weak) right after his release and recived a hotfix-buff - in S1. After that, her recived nothing but nerfs since then up till the ult buff in S5.

Shys high days were S2, she was one of the most used junglers uin ciompetetive play in that season, same with Lee and Nocturn and even Xin abd J4, while tank junglers, especially maokai and naut, were also dominant. Espcially jungle wise, S2 was the most devers Season, where the viable junglers where very balanced between each other. Just that every not perfectly viable jungle was just instantly out, where was no room for 'off-meta' or stuff, either you had enough base values/utillity to sporadically clear and mostly rely on ganks and GP10 items, so basically a roaming support, or you had a damn good clear, else the jungle would kill you. Also, many people didn't really like that jungle if you diddn#t have an insane clear like shyvana was more like a second support, especially gold wise, so it was rather unpopular. So since S3, they tried to improve the feel of supports and junglers, giving them more gold and stuff to feel less 'underseved' compared to laners, which sadly distrubed the balance alot up to today.

In lower elos, the easier to acces jungle was rather succesfull, where were alot more champos tat did 'survive' the jungle, and since raw champion power isn't that importent in low elos, many champs could do well in the jungle. However, High elo jungle has been changed into an elitist area wher only few junglers are viable at a time. Due to the easier to acces jungle that gives a bit more gold, some champs like lee became way to strong as their clears where now close to the fast clears, just that they didn't sacrifice ganking potential for it and can use the more gold that the jungle offers to snowball even harder off their powerfull early. Atleast in higher elos, you need to bring decent utillity, good clears and gankpressure all at once, as thats the mark that lee, elise and some others have set for succesfull junglers.

And sadly, since then riot never really adressed the issue of generallistic junglers dominateing the pro scene. They probably tried, but imo the main issue are actually certain champions, especially Lee and Elise, that wrap the high elo jungle-meta around them due to their jack of all trades kits for the early jungle, and the fact that the impact off junglers early in the game is massive. If they out pace you to much early on, you are not viable in the jungle, and if you keep somewhat up in pace, you still need to outscale them quite a bit to be worth a pick, which most of the time leads to 3-4 god tier junglers and the rest beeing pocket picks or straight useless in the competetive scene.

For your OP: You got quite some facts about S2 and wriggles, especially the nerf/buff chronologie, wrong, though that probably mostly you confuseing S1 with S2, as most that you said actually would be accurate for S1. And Sated wasn't introduced because the infinit scaleing on devourer was to strong, but because it fuled an afk-farm playstyle and led to an situation where the other jungler, if both went devourer, could never catch up once he did ever fall behind. With the sated hardcap, they wanted a point where the afk farming stops, and where the opposing jungler can start catching up on stacks. For the conclusion on devourer: Devourer isn't impossible to balance because of empowering AA-based champs, it's impossible to balance due to the nature of the jungle and the big difference between high and low elo. Ever since S3(and to some extend also the previous seasons), the jungler is mostly the dude that controlls the early game, thus he needs a strong early to perform as best as he can in his role. As a result, the delayed powerspike off staking mechanisms and the idea of afk-farming go totally against the generall idea of a jungler and thus need imense payoff to be viable. In lower Elos however, haveing the ideal case isn't that important, as the ideal case usually needs some team coordination and high playerskill to really be the ideal case. It's a fact that games in lower elos drag out longer and thus lategame often matters more than early game, people also tent to overextend alot more, so even 'devourer junglers' can gank very succesfully. So whenever a jungleitem has a delayed powerspike or even infinit sacleing, it will either be balanced for low elo and usless for high elo, or balanced for high elo(with still a potentially unhealthy pattern) and totally broken for low elos. So either the system needs to change, so junglers don't have to be beasts in the earlygame to be viable in high elo, or items like ferral or devourer will never have a healthy place in the game.

Aditionally, sated is especially problematic due to the hyper synergie it has with certain champs, which mostly stems from the very poor on-hit itemisation since S3, which meant on-hit useing champs had to synergies really hard with it to be viable, and now whenever a strong on-hit item comes, those champs need to be adjusted to the new items, ot the items need to be adjusted to the champs. And since devourer not only gives a powerfull on-hit, but also an massive multiplyer for other on-hits, it doubles down on this, espcially for those champs that have potent on-hit aswell as hy synergie with aditional on hit like Yi or Shy.

Xonra1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZztxkxET,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2016-03-15T14:27:11.729+0000)

Fair point, I forgot to mention Shaco.

But no, Lee and Shyvana were complete garbo in most of S2... Lee even needed buffs across the board to even be somewhat viable.

Yup. Nunu was captain main man back then. He was one of the first champs to really swap between roles ( support/jungle) People forget Lee was terrible when he was first released.

Xonra2 votes

{quoted}

just some fixes on OP's post:

lantern exists since season 1, it was NOT created in season 2 because on-hit champs were weak.

Lee, shyvana and shako were THE strongest junglers in season 2. they were able to get level 2 (or 3 in shalo's case) wayyy before the lane. Ever wondered why every single season (except the current one) jungle monster were buffed beyound believe? it was to prevent the early lvl2 ganks.

Plus back then you had stuff like Madreds Blood Razer or however it was spelled for auto attack reliant champs like Warwick

doubleguac4 votes

It seems like Riot took a big risk on Devourer. The centerpiece of an item is a passive that interacts differently with different champions. Not all on-hits are created equal; the item is therefore always going to be more cost efficient on some champions than others. I don't know how you start to balance that across champions.

If Morellonomicon is too cost efficient, you can increase the cost or decrease the stats. Easy.

What do you do if Sated Devourer is too good on, say, Master Yi?

Nerf Master Yi's on-hit effects? Ok, but now Yi is screwed if devourer is ever changed or ever becomes harder to stack.

Increase the cost of Devourer? Ok, but now the item is too inefficient on other junglers who don't have as strong on-hit effects on Yi.

RoodToob2 votes

Just for the record : if you want to edit the post, Feral flare was released in 4.5 if memory serves, either way early-mid S4 and devourer was made in the season 5 preseason

Dominick Destine4 votes

Given that this thread went down like a sack of potatoes, I don't think I will be editing.

Masala Chai2 votes

I like this thread. I hate to see it go bad.

Feed Daddy2 votes

This stuff is accurate but not in the right seasons the ward was added after the lane interaction was removed I'm pretty sure not 100% but like << yea

Bladerunner77772 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZztxkxET,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-14T22:34:55.361+0000) Basically what I'm trying to say is; NERF YASUO PLS ROIT. WTF. gg

I wasn't following you for a while but I got to dis nd i gotta say i haf 2 agree,

gg

TheOvermind1 votes

I guess history teaches us a lesson : the lesson that AFK jungle farm is not a good thing, is hard to balance and is not healthy for the game. I dont understand why Auto atk jungllers HAVE to get a scaling jungle item ?? Why not raw stats with a unique passive like Warrior and Runic echoes??

Veraska1 votes

{quoted}

I guess history teaches us a lesson : the lesson that AFK jungle farm is not a good thing, is hard to balance and is not healthy for the game. I dont understand why Auto atk jungllers HAVE to get a scaling jungle item ?? Why not raw stats with a unique passive like Warrior and Runic echoes??

I think I could answer that, riot wants the farming junglers to be able to compete with ganking junglers for viability, the problem is why would you wanna run a master yi if you could run a heavy ganker like Lee sin? You need something that rewards farming junglers because they ussually (not always) suck at ganking

It's to give champions like yi and warwick a way to scale into the mid game through farm since they can't gank as well as other junglers

TheOvermind1 votes

Problem is jungle farming does not work because the champions that do it go like : " excuse me everyone imma just farm till 20 min, good luck in your lanes with the enemy jungler too". This is really selfish, unhealthy and doesn't promote team play . Basically the farmer jungler's team, is left to fend for themselves while their jungler free farms. ALso from the enemy team's perspective they are on the clock , to end the game as fast as possible before that sated yi comes out murdering everyone with his massive powerspiike. Stonewall03 talked about this in his "worst trends in the jungle histroy". Jungle farmign meta is not healthy for a team game MOBA like League of Legends. You said that riot wants the auto atk junglers to be viable and compete with the strong gankers. I don't understand why. If they can't gank then they shoul'nt jungle. Jungle is not the "free farm lane", jungle is team supportive role. Additionally all auto atk junglers where not junglers initially they became cuz of broken items. think about it (shyvanna, trundle, Xin Zhao, Tryndamere, Jax) they r all top laners that went in teh jungle to abuse the items. Only exceptions here are Warwick who was always a jungler , but Warwick is the weakest out of all the devourer junglers, and has strong ganks post 6. Also Master Yi has stayed in the jungle for a very long time , but he is the epidemy of the farm jungle meta, cuz he cant gank for shit and doesnt offer anythign in the team but damage. In order to acces that damage he says to his team " yo go f urslves im farming my dev, then ill carry u all" ALso master Yi was broken with every many items before. This champion needs to be addressed or at least make his a late game hyper carry top laner like tryndamere. Get all of those champions that promote unhealthy gameplay out of the jungle. They will get out by themseleves if you remove the scaling farming jg item.

Mama Soraka1 votes

Been a long time since anyone brought up wriggles. I still remember everyone buying it outside the jungle. Hell, people took it bot people took it top, it was MADNESS.

Xonra1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mauve Thunder,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZztxkxET,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2016-03-15T18:14:59.970+0000)

Been a long time since anyone brought up wriggles. I still remember everyone buying it outside the jungle. Hell, people took it bot people took it top, it was MADNESS.

I was using it support for the ward before sight stone was a thing

Khoul1 votes

lmao, you are a nerd.

Dominick Destine21 votes

{quoted}

lmao, you are a nerd.

I am posting on an online forum for a multiplayer-online battle arena game... of course I'm a nerd. You're a nerd too, you're just in denial.

Actually I resent that comment, I am NOT a simple "nerd"; I am a Nerd-Lord, thanks.

NotClarkolas1 votes

Devourer and every item like it will always make the game worse as a whole HOWEVER I'm a yi main so... rito plz buff devourer and give yi's E % max hp true dmg thx

Dominick Destine1 votes

The attention this thread got makes me feel nonsexually warm in my proverbial non-existent heart.

I feel vindicated/appreciated. Thank you sirs. The boards are good to me.

Akesgeroth1 votes

No one remembers Madred's Bloodrazor...

Mama Soraka1 votes

The problem with Madred's was less about stats it gave and more its awful build path. Building it out of sweet xman claws plus a pick and dagger(?) I think made it clunky, expensive, and have weird stats for an on-hit item. That's one item we can all agree got an upgrade in BoTRK.

Sasogwa1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZztxkxET,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-14T22:34:55.361+0000)

Eventually Feral Flare was outright removed because it was deemed impossible to balance.

That's wrong. After all the nerfs, Feral Flare was actually rather balanced. It was removed at the time every single jungle item were changed to go to the machete system, when they were all FINALLY balanced (after all the abuse cases for instance Soel OP on ezreal, spectral wraith taken on AP laners were balanced out) and Riot for the sake of novelty scrapped everything to return in the dark ages of having to balance them out all again. Feral Flare in its last iteration was just fine, it didn't grant too much damage because there was no dmg amp on on-hits, it was just a flat magic damage per auto that kinda fell off in lategame despite its infinite scaling because it had no synergy except attack speed with other offensive items, whereas sated has insane synergy with other on-hits. It was overall a great item to farm that had decent scaling without being overwhelming. Nothing like it was at release.

By limiting the upper cap of the item they were able to prevent edge cases of abuse by hard-farming, hard-ganking champions that would >scale harder than Riot intended. However to make the item have value they added a power spike upon reaching the stack cap. Sated >Devourer's compromise was precisely that it would lose the infinite scaling in exchange for a power spike that has shown to be too >powerful.

I don't agree as well. Devourer was first nerfed because the damage on-hit was too strong at the moment you bought it it gave 40 magic damage on-hit. Was too strong on WW for instance because that made him have stupid powerspike and with the combination of skirmisher you could nearly oneshoot people very soon in the game. Then it was changed to have a max stack where it gave huge powerspike to allow these kind of junglers to, surprisingly, scale harder mid-lategame. Because despite the infinite scaling, you can consider it like a thresh-like infinite scaling. It looks powerful when you see it, but it's actually hardly a deal lategame. Thresh doesn't become that strong lategame and YET he has 1 magic damage on-hit per soul

Dominick Destine2 votes

{quoted}

After all the nerfs, Feral Flare was actually rather balanced.

That's actually completely wrong, Feral Flare was horrendously underpowered after all the nerfs.

It was removed at the time every single jungle item were changed to go to the machete system

Machete existed alongside Feral Flare, do you not remember Ancient Golem, Elder Lizard , etc?

Feral Flare in its last iteration was just fine

No it wasn't, it was garbage.... even champions like Shyvana and Xin used Elder Lizard over Feral Flare.

I don't agree as well. Devourer was first nerfed because the damage on-hit was too strong

No, it was nerfed initially because the infinitely scaling heal was brokenly overpowered.

etc.

Sasogwa1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZztxkxET,comment-id=001a0000,timestamp=2016-03-16T14:06:34.173+0000)

That's actually completely wrong, Feral Flare was horrendously underpowered after all the nerfs.

Was it? It was still used after the nerfs on a bunch of champions and they were fine. There was 10 health on hit and the item itself gave very fast farming, the infinite scaling was still there. Horrendously is certainly not the term, in any case.

Machete existed alongside Feral Flare, do you not remember Ancient Golem, Elder Lizard , etc?

Yeah sorry, I meant the enchantment system. But there was still a huge rework of everything.

No it wasn't, it was garbage.... even champions like Shyvana and Xin used Elder Lizard over Feral Flare.

Shyvana Elder Lizard? Are you joking me? Because yes maybe Xin used that but raw AD/cdr are among the worst stats for Shyvana, if anything she'd go for the tanky item.

No, it was nerfed initially because the infinitely scaling heal was brokenly overpowered.

You didn't read correctly there. I was talking about Devourer not Feral Flare in this particular sentence. Devourer never had health on-hit and there was a nerf on Devourer going from 40 to 25 magic damage on hit after 4.20 weedwick, nerfs were on 4.21

Feral Flare is another story and I never denied the fact the scaling on-hit health was too strong.

etc.

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FastAsHeck1 votes

I miss the sniper ward from feral flare :/

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