An argument for balancing around pro play.

Marshbouy··15 votes·8,898 views

People usually hate the idea of balancing around pro play because "muh .000001% of the playerbase", but they fail to put much more thought into it than that. I am going to list a handful of reasons why balancing around pro play is a must for riot.

Esports is a cash cow.

Everyone already knows this, but esports gets riot loads of money. It's in riot's best interests to balance pro play to keep it interesting for pro players and those watching. Seeing Sion/Aatrox/Urgot in the top lane every single game is boring af and will bleed viewers away.

Balancing around pro play doesn't give much incentive to get better at the game.

What's the point of learning how to face Master Yi, Garen, and other champions that tend to stomp in low elo games if riot is just going to nerf them into irrelevance? What's the point of climbing in elo if the viable champion pool grows smaller and smaller? Right now we already have an issue where once you start getting to diamond+ champion pool starts to shrink because champions are no longer viable. Now imagine if this problem is magnified to an even greater level.

Although high elo is about 2% of the playerbase, it makes up the vast majority of content creators for the game. I'm sure you can see why restricting champion pools (makes the game more boring) isn't a good idea. Content creators bring in new people and keep them playing.

Pro play still translates into your games

Strategies used in pro play are usually difficult to implement into pro-play because of a lack of communication, but that doesn't mean everything in pro play is irrelevant. A specific example will make this make more sense.

Back when Azir was 100% pick/ban in LCS in season 5/6, occasionally you would find a good one in one of your silver/gold games. Now if pro players, the best at playing LoL, struggle to face an Azir, what chance does a group of uncoordinated and unskilled players have? EDIT: Put very concisely and very simply.

{quoted}

I'll throw in my two cents. If something is overperforming at low elo, it could be that it's a novel strategy/design, or difficult to play around, but perfectly balanced. If something overperforms at high elo, there just isn't sufficient counterplay to it regardless of skill level.

Put more concisely, balancing around high elo removes many confounding factors when assessing pure kit strength.

.

People still play tournaments in low elo and pro play strats still apply

This was something I didn't think about super hard until I recently joined a few tournaments, but the strategies and gameplay that you see in LCK, LEC, etc. isn't that far away from you. If you can find some sort of 5v5 tournament to join (or if clash ever works properly) then you'll understand how disgusting and how useless some champions are.

Sejuani might be trash in solo Q, but suddenly you face one in a coordinated environment and you understand why she's constantly getting nerfed.

Sion might be "meh" right now, but when you see a 6k hp sion running at you with his whole team behind you, you'll understand why he's picked so frequently.

Orianna is not a good mid laner right now, but she stomps coordinated games because of her insane teamfight.

Yi is basically freelo below gold, but useless when facing coordinated comps with 2 tanks and enough CC to keep you locked down for 4 seconds.

Finally, it just doesn't make sense to balance around people who don't know how to play the game

The whole point of games like league is to get better at them and beat other people with your skill. Why should we balance around the lowest common denominator?

Now I get it, no one wants to be DOTA2 and have heroes that are winning 60% of games and being picked in 40% of them, but no one wants LCS to be limited to 20 champions either. Finding a correct balance is key, which I think riot is doing an OK job at, but should focus more around pro play than they currently are because of the reasons I've stated above.


P.S.

I didn't do much research on the current meta in this post, so if a champion is stronger/weaker at a certain elo than I said they are, just roll with it. The point isn't to talk about champions specifically, but talk about the game as a whole.

29 Comments

Troy24262110 votes

I'll throw in my two cents. If something is overperforming at low elo, it could be that it's a novel strategy/design, exploitative of low elo chaos, or difficult to play around, but perfectly balanced. If something overperforms at high elo, there just isn't sufficient counterplay to it regardless of skill level.

Likewise, if something underperforms at low elo, it could have a substantial skill floor or require coordination to function efficiently.

Put more concisely, balancing around high elo removes many confounding factors when assessing pure kit strength.

Marshbouy5 votes

You put it so concisely, I love it.

Eedat3 votes

Because first and foremost LoL isn't a spectator sport. It's a game people play and if people stop playing it then there is no esport period. It's not like sports where a large chunk of the viewer base is content watching professionals play while not playing themselves.

Building on this, your average player simply cannot invest a full work schedule per week playing with a team. Solo Q is still the main mode. Even pro players say that LCS is a completely different game compared to even challenger Solo Q. It's not even remotely the same.

Speeedy3 votes

except esports isn't a cash cow, they have stated in 2013 and then again in 2018 that they are losing money. So making the game good for pro play doesn't seem like the way to go if you have 5 years of negative returns of that section of the company. they are still making money but its off the casual side to cover the pro side. So balancing around pro is not what they should be doing. Keep the people happy who are keeping your business alive. It should be balanced off high elo solo Q not pro play. Guess who is going to keep your game going, its not the pros.

source: https://www.pcgamesinsider.biz/news/67702/riot-isnt-even-close-to-breaking-even-on-league-of-legends-esports/

AeroWaffle2 votes

{quoted}

except esports isn't a cash cow, they have stated in 2013 and then again in 2018 that they are losing money. So making the game good for pro play doesn't seem like the way to go if you have 5 years of negative returns of that section of the company. they are still making money but its off the casual side to cover the pro side. So balancing around pro is not what they should be doing. Keep the people happy who are keeping your business alive. It should be balanced off high elo solo Q not pro play. Guess who is going to keep your game going, its not the pros.

source: https://www.pcgamesinsider.biz/news/67702/riot-isnt-even-close-to-breaking-even-on-league-of-legends-esports/

From your source:

"But this surely a loss-lead for Riot. Pro-gaming - for most games developers and publishers in the sector - is simply a marketing spend; a loss lead. They spend massive amounts of cash on tournaments as a way of engaging the massive League of Legends audience even more and will make them even more likely to splash cash in the smash hit MOBA. "

Esports are a good way to generate interest in the game. If you let the esports side die so dies with it the interest in the game that it generated.

The esports balance is the most delicate out of all the different skill levels of the game. Even more-so than high level solo-Q. Esports teams are very good at exploiting any and all advantages as a team they can get. Balancing for high-end solo queue is not going to generate the same level of interest that esports do, it will still be balancing for an extreme minority, and it will still leave the other skill levels slightly imbalanced.

Speeedy2 votes

Esports are a great way to generate interest but at what point do you make it a secondary function of the game? 5 years of continuous losses? 10? 15? As an accountant and a business owner running a loss lead model is unsustainable given enough time. Riot has to make a decision of when to cut its losses on the esports side and shift its priorities towards the areas that are making money. If riot keeps the current business model they are in now they will become bankrupt. Why will they become bankrupt if they keep the current model?

  1. You are losing a ton of money on esports - minimum 5 years currently in a row
  2. Your player base will shrink with time as it is not a new game - Look at any game player numbers, very high when the game comes out then slowly degrades over time. This is where Riot is losing players consistently partly due to being a 8+ year old game. This will eventually be not as profitable to cover the esports side of the business.

As a business owner after 5 years of a project not being able to turn profitable is a major problem. Your solo Q and casual players need to get the focus and it needs to happen sooner rather than later since you had 5 years already and couldn’t turn a profit. Balance for Solo Q since that is where your money is coming from or eventually slowly bleed out money.

AeroWaffle1 votes

{quoted}

Esports are a great way to generate interest but at what point do you make it a secondary function of the game? 5 years of continuous losses? 10? 15? As an accountant and a business owner running a loss lead model is unsustainable given enough time. Riot has to make a decision of when to cut its losses on the esports side and shift its priorities towards the areas that are making money. If riot keeps the current business model they are in now they will become bankrupt. Why will they become bankrupt if they keep the current model?

  1. You are losing a ton of money on esports - minimum 5 years currently in a row
  2. Your player base will shrink with time as it is not a new game - Look at any game player numbers, very high when the game comes out then slowly degrades over time. This is where Riot is losing players consistently partly due to being a 8+ year old game. This will eventually be not as profitable to cover the esports side of the business.

As a business owner after 5 years of a project not being able to turn profitable is a major problem. Your solo Q and casual players need to get the focus and it needs to happen sooner rather than later since you had 5 years already and couldn’t turn a profit. Balance for Solo Q since that is where your money is coming from or eventually slowly bleed out money.

So you're arguing against your own source?

Speeedy2 votes

No lol. esports is losing money; we know that is a fact. Balancing the game for an area of business that is losing money is not sustainable. I'm saying cut your losses on the esports (5 years and no profit was a good shot I commend riot for that) and focus on your cash cow that is holding up your massive loss on the esports side. Am I saying eliminate the esports side? No. Just don't make it the main focus of the company because it has turned out to not be profitable. Move your focus to the areas that are profitable your solo Q players. If they don't change their business model, how do they generate enough money to stay in business?

TimeToDieSuckers1 votes

You realize the whole point of esports isn't to make a profit right? It's to advertise and market the game, to attract new players and entice old players to buy skins.

Speeedy2 votes

You are going to focus your game balance decisions around what your average consumer cant do? Play the game yes, but they have no voice communication or ability to practice hours a day or pick any champ without being a huge detriment to your team(champs that are strong in pro but crap in solo q). That really hits your target market for an advertisement. How can you say balance for ~700 pro players worldwide is going to be better than solo Q balanced where millions play without the above 3 items I mentioned.

its like advertising a ferrari to elementary schools, they never have the ability to drive so you really are going to sell alot of cars to them.

TimeToDieSuckers1 votes

They don't exclusively balance around pro play anyways, they balance around pro play and high elo. Obviously they are rarely going to balance around low elo... because it's low skilled. If they wanted to balance around low skill, they'd balance around normals which dwarfs soloq.

Speeedy1 votes

except over 90% of the changes in every patch is aimed at pro play

Dr Dog3 votes

high elo is exactly where balance should be focused around but not pro play, organized team play with 10 players that are all good in that match with instant communication is not how league of legends actually is and there are plenty of pro play problems that have no bearing on solo queue (where most players actually are playing the game) a good example being champions like galio completely gutted and left to die because of pro play and pro play alone making them nearly unpickable in solo queue unless you actually want to lose

high elo play has all the high skill level balancing perks of pro play balance while also being solo queue (unlike proplay that has a pretty different meta as a whole) and is better for the general playerbase, alienating your main playerbase to get pro play viewers is a shitty practice that can screw over people that actually support and actively play the game

Karunamon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZosPKgNF,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-03-14T18:05:12.273+0000)

high elo is exactly where balance should be focused around but not pro play, organized team play with 10 players that are all good in that match with instant communication is not how league of legends actually is and there are plenty of pro play problems that have no bearing on solo queue (where most players actually are playing the game) a good example being champions like galio completely gutted and left to die because of pro play and pro play alone making them nearly unpickable in solo queue unless you actually want to lose

high elo play has all the high skill level balancing perks of pro play balance while also being solo queue (unlike proplay that has a pretty different meta as a whole) and is better for the general playerbase, alienating your main playerbase to get pro play viewers is a shitty practice that can screw over people that actually support and actively play the game

That's kinda my issue too. Less that the game is balanced around the top 1% of players (though that can admittedly be infuriating when you soloQ tactics are put into the dumpster because of shit that's about a hundred times above your level and the levels of 99% of the rest of the player base), but more that the game is balanced around a fantasy (5 people in close communication) that most players simply never get to experience.

Speeedy2 votes

exactly, balance around ~700 pro players worldwide? or your millions that are keeping you in business since we can't play like them. We have no voice communication and are unable to practice 7+ hours a day of scrims, review, and solo Q.

Lovelle3 votes

I understand why, it just sucks for those of us that don't care about pro play. Getting your favorite champ gutted is not only crippling, but makes the game less fun to play.

All I play is normals, where typically banned (in ranked) champs are played nearly every game, and I generally queue solo. Pro play centered nerfs make the champion near unplayable in such scenarios.

Kaisha3 votes

Pro play isn't balanced. This game isn't balanced at iron, or pro, or anywhere in between. Its just a mindless cluster-fck.

MordridtheBlack2 votes

uh half the time it IS balanced around the pro-players.

League uses the data they mainly get from that end to determine what needs fixing more often than not.

They only listen to the 99% when something is overtly broken.

AeroWaffle7 votes

{quoted}

uh half the time it IS balanced around the pro-players.

League uses the data they mainly get from that end to determine what needs fixing more often than not.

They only listen to the 99% when something is overtly broken.

The OP's argument is about why balancing around pro play is a good thing.

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

Seeing Sion/Aatrox/Urgot in the top lane every single game is boring af and will bleed viewers away.

You know what else bleeds? The playerbase that is not pro. People want to enjoy playing aatrox and his intended theme, annnnd now he is close to being unplayable because pro abuses one or two things he can do (said things also DONT align with his intended theme).

This was something I didn't think about super hard until I recently joined a few tournaments, but the strategies and gameplay that you see in LCK, LEC, etc. isn't that far away from you

Oh yes they are. Im not going to join an organized play or something. And imo its for the best. The game isnt currently exactly tailored for such thing (between strangers ofc).

The whole point of games like league is to get better at them and beat other people with your skill. Why should we balance around the lowest common denominator?

Im not agree with balancing completely for low elo and the such but, thats the problem nowadays. Teamplay > solo play. If you are good but your team is worse than the enemy more often than not, you will lose.

Moody P2 votes

Balancing around pros means making those champions viable in coordinated play though.

Marshbouy2 votes

correct. I don't have an issue with that as long as they are balanced.

NemeBro2 votes

{quoted}

Everyone already knows this, but esports gets riot loads of money. It's in riot's best interests to balance pro play to keep it interesting for pro players and those watching. Seeing Sion/Aatrox/Urgot in the top lane every single game is boring af and will bleed viewers away.

I don't give a single shit how much money it makes Riot. This is the thinking of a corporate shill.

"Oh gee, this game fucking blows dick to play, but hey, at least Riot is making so much money off of esports! That increases the quality of my gaming experience! =D"

  • said no one, ever.

The amount of money Riot is making has NOTHING to do with the quality of the product. It's a red herring that only distracts the poorly-educated.

What's the point of learning how to face Master Yi, Garen, and other champions that tend to stomp in low elo games if riot is just going to nerf them into irrelevance? What's the point of climbing in elo if the viable champion pool grows smaller and smaller? Right now we already have an issue where once you start getting to diamond+ champion pool starts to shrink because champions are no longer viable. Now imagine if this problem is magnified to an even greater level.

This is a non-sequitur. Master Yi not being viable past low diamond solo queue has little to do with professional balance and everything to do with balance of high elo solo queue.

Although high elo is about 2% of the playerbase, it makes up the vast majority of content creators for the game. I'm sure you can see why restricting champion pools (makes the game more boring) isn't a good idea. Content creators bring in new people and keep them playing.

The game should be balanced around high elo (diamond 1+), I agree. What does that have to do with professional play?

Strategies used in pro play are usually difficult to implement into pro-play because of a lack of communication, but that doesn't mean everything in pro play is irrelevant. A specific example will make this make more sense.

Back when Azir was 100% pick/ban in LCS in season 5/6, occasionally you would find a good one in one of your silver/gold games. Now if pro players, the best at playing LoL, struggle to face an Azir, what chance does a group of uncoordinated and unskilled players have? EDIT: Put very concisely and very simply.

The exact same non-sequitur.

Let me make this clear: high elo and pro play are not synonymous. When Shen was tearing up the dance floor in professional play as the number one pick/ban top laner he was not nearly as prevalent in high elo.

This was something I didn't think about super hard until I recently joined a few tournaments, but the strategies and gameplay that you see in LCK, LEC, etc. isn't that far away from you. If you can find some sort of 5v5 tournament to join (or if clash ever works properly) then you'll understand how disgusting and how useless some champions are.

Sejuani might be trash in solo Q, but suddenly you face one in a coordinated environment and you understand why she's constantly getting nerfed.

Sion might be "meh" right now, but when you see a 6k hp sion running at you with his whole team behind you, you'll understand why he's picked so frequently.

Orianna is not a good mid laner right now, but she stomps coordinated games because of her insane teamfight.

Yi is basically freelo below gold, but useless when facing coordinated comps with 2 tanks and enough CC to keep you locked down for 4 seconds.

I don't want to play in tournaments and pretend to be a pro player without actually making the money of one, nor do I ever want to become a pro player even if I hit challenger. So why should I care?

The whole point of games like league is to get better at them and beat other people with your skill. Why should we balance around the lowest common denominator?

You shouldn't. Balance around high elo.

Now I get it, no one wants to be DOTA2 and have heroes that are winning 60% of games and being picked in 40% of them, but no one wants LCS to be limited to 20 champions either. Finding a correct balance is key, which I think riot is doing an OK job at, but should focus more around pro play than they currently are because of the reasons I've stated above.

You're right, no one wants League to be like a game where heroes like Io can be worthless garbage in solo queue with a literal 36% win rate, while fucking Omniknight is rocking 61%. These stats are out of date, and judging by the much smaller distribution of stats even Dota 2 players seem to have gotten tired of it.

I didn't do much research on the current meta in this post, so if a champion is stronger/weaker at a certain elo than I said they are, just roll with it. The point isn't to talk about champions specifically, but talk about the game as a whole.

You will never convince people who don't give a single shit about esports that balancing around it is ideal.

Boltonator1 votes

As long as my support champions don’t become walking ward droppers again I’ll be content with any changes that come their way.

FSRER1 votes

Nowadays who cares if you put wards or not? All assassins have invisibility and stealth and playing tank at jungle is out of the question, so? Who is gona see em? oh yeah, also this item 3147 exsists soo....

Karunamon2 votes

{quoted}

Nowadays who cares if you put wards or not? All assassins have invisibility and stealth and playing tank at jungle is out of the question, so? Who is gona see em? oh yeah, also this item 3147 exsists soo....

Cmon man, that's just ignorant. Even with that garbage item, there are 4 other champions on the map that it's important to keep vision of.

FSRER1 votes

I was being Ironic. Of course keeping the map warded is good but assassins still don't care about wards.

iDarkWind1 votes

Because clearly Duskblade doesn't have a cooldown to clear wards neither Red Trinket right? The best they can do is know if it is warded or not. You're just a desilusional player and part of the problem that this topic is talking about. If it depended on boards, it would be totally upside down that this topic defends: Low elo players would be the one to balance the game and refuse to actually know to play it properly.

Shadou Sukeru1 votes

This game isnt even balanced around pro plays. I'm surprised no one has noticed this yet. We have a crap ton of champions and pros only use a set number of champions. Some are never picked and never banned. That alone shows unbalance. Riot doesnt care about balancing they care about favorites and bringing them to pro plays. Simple as that. Low elo is garbage and should stay that way. Balancing around them is just asinine. Balancing around pro players would be best to do to bring a competitive nature and honestly just because YOU think you are good doesnt mean you are. Goes for everyone. Including me.

Riot needs to actually balance their game. Not short hot fixes to make it look like they are. The unbalance is apart of the appeal. It's a marketing tactic based off of I deserve you lose a match and get mad and keep playing to win one. You finally win one on a champion and you buy a skin for it because of how excited you were to win just to lose and do it all over again. You go on a winning streak and them go OMG I'm amazing and watch pros thinking you can do what they do and boom hooked for watching the pro players. Views=money.

Its smart. It's a great strat. So you getting mad about balancing is like getting mad at a symptom instead of the root cause.

Said my peice.

More from Gameplay

More by Marshbouy