I was going to complain about constantly getting 1st/2nd pick as a top laner, but then I realized

HateDaddy·Jun 27, 2019·27 votes·11,247 views

Why don't you balance the lane so that the lane isn't legitimately won or lost in champ select. The fact that this occurs, and it occurs so divisively, is a pretty bad look for the balance team. The reality is that you've created so many poorly designed champions that I don't think there is really any turning back. If you first pick a melee and someone wants to play Jayce, Kennen, Vlad, Ryze, Illaoi, Darius, Irelia, Tahm Kench, or any of the other million poorly designed garbage designs that can't really function elsewhere so they get forced into top, then you get to enjoy being absolutely destroyed in lane with little consequence because it is almost never in the best interest of your jungler to save a lost top lane. So who knows? Does anyone have any suggestions on what could fix some of this, because I don't even know anymore.

53 Comments

iPrawnJun 27, 201919 votes

Play Jayce, Kennen, Vlad, Ryze, Illaoi, Darius, Irelia, Tahm Kench, or any of the other million pooly designed garbage designs.

LatetotheRaceJun 27, 20191 votes

Riven Irelia Darius are all you need. With those three you can beat every other top laner.

ZeromatsuJun 27, 20192 votes

TahmKench

[sg-miss-fortune]

LatetotheRaceJun 27, 20193 votes

You gotta ban someone :p

SucctionJun 28, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Play Jayce, Kennen, Vlad, Ryze, Illaoi, Darius, Irelia, Tahm Kench, or any of the other million pooly designed garbage designs.

Then you have the choice between winning lane as a champion you don't like (making you hate the lane) or losing as one that you do (making you hate the lane), and neither has much skill expression at all post basic wave manipulation.

This doesn't apply to me, as I don't even play the lane anymore, but just speaking from the perspective of the poster.

DarwinTheoryJun 27, 20199 votes

Top can never be balanced because when a champion can chunk you for 2/3 your health before level 3 in one combo you have two options: Base. Or feed.

It used to be you could lose gracefully Vs a counter. Play safe farm and not feed.

Now you may as well pray your ADC and mid can carry you whilst you get 1/3 the farm after being zoned.

The ONLY reason counters don't crush in LCS is their teams aren't stupid so never push knowing the enemy jungler or mid could roam and gank them.......because you know ..they actually have map awareness.

But whatever. RIOT likes balancing MMR around 'wins' with carry champs. Because they champs give *dollars" skin sales.

ButterwoodJun 27, 20193 votes

This. One wrong move against a Fiora at level 3 and I'm already at 30% health after burning my flash.

Linna ExcelJun 27, 20196 votes

{quoted}

It used to be you could lose gracefully Vs a counter. Play safe farm and not feed.

This is kind of what I mean by riot needs to bring back counter play. If playing safe and farming isn't an option then the game is broken.

KVbqbFsC8eJun 27, 20192 votes

Not sure what game you guys were playing, but losing to a counter in the past was way worse. You could easily be zoned from not just CS, but also XP. Laning vs ranged champions was much more difficult than it is now.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 27, 20192 votes

I do admit that. Riot made it actually too easy to "lose gracefully" hence why for a long time now you basically don't see any lanebullies anymore and instead lategame scalers that ALSO bully the lane and if not atleast go even and outscale you at 2 items.

I remember learning from quas how to zone properly and deny CS before riot increased the XP range and changed the minion gold so that basically any monkey can get their gold by simply only last hitting cannons and one or two melees, i had games were i was legit 4 level above my enemy laner and three times the CS. Also in d3/d2 elo so not exactly the worst of all player.

That's impossible now because any jungler can just run top and kill you for free and catch up xp, xp range, plates etc. make it too easy to stay relevant in the game.

Champion SkinJun 28, 20191 votes

I feel like the game also had more sandbag kind of champions before... like Morgan mid/top (she generally didn't kill anyone but she wasn't easy to kill herself so she generally went even in most lanes basically sandbagging the lane) of course the reason for this is that riot thinks that such champions/playstyles aren't interactive and fun enough

Though there was also way back when there were masteries that had a flat reduction in minion/monster damage allowing you to basically ignore the minion wave (yes that was OP but at least it made it easier to deal with range champions as you could basically ignore the minion wave and fight in it with no care)

GayFluffyUnicornJun 28, 20191 votes

One of the biggest crutches with toplane was rushing a cutlass for sustain. You would delay your spike even further but atleast had the possibility to survive lane and scale back into the game. That doesn't exist anymore.

Game would be much better if riot would finally make melee/range restrictions. Taste of blood only gives half healing or should only be pickable by melees. Corrupt. potion should have half effect on range and stuff like that.

Death by GlamourJun 27, 20195 votes

This might not go down to well but i do find it amusing to see all these melee bruisers crying about ranged bullies when they were perfectly fine with said bruisers bullying tanks out of the lane.

IP MasquerenaJun 27, 20193 votes

Similar to many assassin players I see crying "it's not fair" when they get one shot deleted. Had that happen with a Talon vs my Quinn. Gosh that guy was salty, "too much damage, you kill me to fast with no counter play" (maybe try to shove me in instead of trying to get me low, since I don't stay inside the creep wave for you to do both?)

And a lot more like that...

In the end, "it's fair" when you do it and "unfair" when it's done to you similar to how "it's fun" to stomp enemies and "unfun" to be stomped. Yes, there are people who just don't like that, won't deny, if I go 7-0 in 10 mins because the enemy is dumb and feeds is not fun, but in the end, it's still more fun to win than to lose.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 27, 20192 votes

Because that's how it's supposed to be? Lmao.

I know tank players are insanely delusional but why should the TEAMFIGHT CHAMPION also win the laning phase, the 1v1, the splitpush while also being better in teamfights??? Like hello?

Bruiser have worse and more expensive itemization, suck in teamfights and are only good if they snowball. Yet tanks just beat them in the laning phase for the last 3 years LOL. But dear god, tanks got bullied by darius once in a blue moon.

General Esdeath Jun 27, 20193 votes

Just close the lane and make League a 4v4 game.

JamareeJun 27, 20192 votes

Isn't really a fixable problem tbh, it's a lane designed to be on an island, and unless junglers interfere, which is rare, it is always gonna be a case of counterpicking, mid doesn't have that problem as much because jungle pressure, same with bot because support relieving pressure. It is like how in fighting games you are always at risk of being punished by being counterpicked.

Linna ExcelJun 27, 20195 votes

Except riot was originally designed with counterplay in mind. As the 1v1 lane that gets minimal interference that's where the idea should be shining the brightest.

JamareeJun 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ze7ez0el,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-27T07:02:42.746+0000)

Except riot was originally designed with counterplay in mind. As the 1v1 lane that gets minimal interference that's where the idea should be shining the brightest.

Yeah, and as a 1 vs 1 lane, it is vulnerable to certain champions being better, it is as I said, like fighting games. When you are in a 1 vs 1 scenario, certain characters are just going to be better then others, you can have champions be counterpicks to one another, but you are always going to have one that dominates depending on the meta and climate of the game. It isn't a really fixable problem.

Linna ExcelJun 27, 20192 votes

I'm not complaining about champs having better or worse matchups. I'm talking about top lane getting to the point where you've got hard counters to the point you can't even farm up. This isn't good for the game. If you've got a 41% win rate against champion X that means 59% of the time you are going to feed so much your teammates can't bail you out and the game is lost.

Why should I lose elo because riot won't even give players in certain matchups a chance to play the game and not make it a case of "we've got to carry top because it isn't his fault."

JamareeJun 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ze7ez0el,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-27T18:54:52.762+0000)

I'm not complaining about champs having better or worse matchups. I'm talking about top lane getting to the point where you've got hard counters to the point you can't even farm up. This isn't good for the game. If you've got a 41% win rate against champion X that means 59% of the time you are going to feed so much your teammates can't bail you out and the game is lost.

Why should I lose elo because riot won't even give players in certain matchups a chance to play the game and not make it a case of "we've got to carry top because it isn't his fault."

I'm saying it isn't a fixable problem because it is a case of 1 vs 1, unless they change it to have it so champions do reduced damage to each other or reduced cc depending on match ups, this is going to always be a thing.

Starcraft243verJun 27, 20191 votes

You can't give every champion counterplay to every single other kits a champion have.

YennJun 27, 20192 votes

> because it is almost never in the best interest of your jungler to save a lost top lane.

It's not that it's not in the best interest, it's that it's not possible because most champions that inhabit top lane are braindead and don't have the capacity to make punishable mistakes. This makes it impossible to help the lane once it's behind.

There's no way to fix this without gutting or reworking the low skill expression champions so that their match ups aren't entirely binary.

HateDaddyJun 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

> because it is almost never in the best interest of your jungler to save a lost top lane.

It's not that it's not in the best interest, it's that it's not possible because most champions that inhabit top lane are braindead and don't have the capacity to make punishable mistakes. This makes it impossible to help the lane once it's behind.

There's no way to fix this without gutting or reworking the low skill expression champions so that their match ups aren't entirely binary.

Huh?

Plenty of the champions that play top lane are punishable. The issue has nothing to do with skill expression. If anything, the lower skill expression champions are the easiest to punish.

Critmaster GarenJun 27, 20192 votes

putting Darius on that list doesnt feel fair. a lot of melee champions, even the ones hes supposed to counter, have room to outplay him.

playing against a good darius might be difficult because you cant splip up, but you even have a chance on Garen to go even with him and even outtrade and beat him with the correct rune setup and trading patterns.

i would play against darius over most champions on that list every time. at least there is a decent chance i can beat him, where Karma TahmKench make that basically impossible.

i havent played against Illaoi since the patch dropped, and only played her once myself. i was strong enough to beat a kench with her, so she might be pretty nuts right now. but when the counterplay mechanic still existed on her e, the matchup felt fairly even on most champions aswell.

YennJun 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ze7ez0el,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-06-27T10:12:55.105+0000)

putting on that list doesnt feel fair. a lot of melee champions, even the ones hes supposed to counter, have room to outplay him.

playing against a good darius might be difficult, but you even have a chance on to go even with him and even outtrade him with the correct rune setup and trading patterns.

Unless you can win a straight 1v1 with Darius, there's really no room to outplay him if he pops Ghost and you aren't already under your turret and playing a tank.

Critmaster GarenJun 27, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Unless you can win a straight 1v1 with Darius, there's really no room to outplay him if he pops Ghost and you aren't already under your turret and playing a tank.

you can control your lane properly so you dont overextend too much, and focus on short trading patters.

i dont know how it works for most matchups, but for garen phase rush makes winning trades with him possible, while grasp doesnt give you the right kind of power to take trades with him.

a lot of people probably have to experiment more with their runes and items on their champions in the same way. theyre too used to running the same runes and items on their champions every single time.

for example if i were to run grasp, Gangplank would probably shit on my champion. but predator or glacial augment can entirely turn the matchup around.

runes like phase rush, glacial augment are incredibly undervalued and for myself they can turn certain losing matchups even, or into winning matchups.

im not saying winning against a good darius is easy since there isnt really room for mistakes. but its still more likely than winning against champions like karma and tahm. the counterplay to darius is quite obvious. take short trades, dodge his q while youre trading, and have a plan to disengage after the trade without getting hooked back.

champions like klepto tank Karma on the other hand are practically impossible to beat on a lot of melee champions. even the ones with mobility. she has so much counterengage that you cant really come out on top, and klepto just guarantees that she benefits in either case if you play passive or aggressive against her, where darius usually cant threaten you while you play safe against him.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 27, 20191 votes

There's a lot of ways to outplay darius.

preternaturalJun 27, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Why don't you balance the lane so that the lane isn't legitimately won or lost in champ select. The fact that this occurs, and it occurs so divisively, is a pretty bad look for the balance team. The reality is that you've created so many poorly designed champions that I don't think there is really any turning back. If you first pick a melee and someone wants to play Jayce, Kennen, Vlad, Ryze, Illaoi, Darius, Irelia, Tahm Kench, or any of the other million poorly designed garbage designs that can't really function elsewhere so they get forced into top, then you get to enjoy being absolutely destroyed in lane with little consequence because it is almost never in the best interest of your jungler to save a lost top lane. So who knows? Does anyone have any suggestions on what could fix some of this, because I don't even know anymore.

you see bro, this is why i have to pick irelia now. i'm the guy who would be playing top lane kata or some stupid shit like that, but the game doesn't allow me to pick that fruity shit if i'm first pick for top, AND, even if i am second pick, they prolly picked some shit that i have to pick some op broken ass shit into as well just to go even in the worst case scenario of a jungle camp because that fucking happens too.

so people pls no blame me for playing derprelia and her ilk, i'm literally forced to wtf you want from me.

Linna ExcelJun 27, 20191 votes

I'm not a top laner so I have to ask a question out of ignorance: are there any top champs a player can safely blind pick? Only some of those champs you mentioned are ranged so it's not like this is completely a melee vs ranged issue. The only thing I can think of is to hit the base stats of the problematic champs so they are weaker in the early game.

I'm kind of scared riot's answer is going to be rework every top laner until they are all "garbage" designs.

HateDaddyJun 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ze7ez0el,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-27T06:18:48.570+0000)

I'm not a top laner so I have to ask a question out of ignorance: are there any top champs a player can safely blind pick? Only some of those champs you mentioned are ranged so it's not like this is completely a melee vs ranged issue. The only thing I can think of is to hit the base stats of the problematic champs so they are weaker in the early game.

I'm kind of scared riot's answer is going to be rework every top laner until they are all "garbage" designs.

Some of the first few picks are safer than others but even the really unfun things like Illaoi and TK top can be hard-countered (i.e. something ranged). You can pick things like Maokai or Sion and be relatively safe, but you'll also depend heavily on the success of your team since tanks do not really carry games unless their damage is overtuned.

Linna ExcelJun 27, 20194 votes

Crap. I'm looking at the stats now and it seems like for the more popular top laners they have a swing rate of up to 15% between their best and worst match ups (ignoring sylas). This isn't one champ either this is just about every champ. What is riot thinking with all those hard counters. This is crazy. What the crap? Where is the counter play? It's like riot has completely flushed their vision down the drain when it comes to top.

If any rioters are reading this, this is wrong. I mean I could see a 10% swing rate at most (55% in a good match up 45% in a bad one) but I'm seeing stuff like 61%/46%.

The best one I've seen so far is Karma because she's now a top too. Looks like she's about to get nerfed though with that win rate.

HateDaddyJun 27, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ze7ez0el,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-27T06:52:43.983+0000)

Crap. I'm looking at the stats now and it seems like for the more popular top laners they have a swing rate of up to 15% between their best and worst match ups (ignoring sylas). This isn't one champ either this is just about every champ. What is riot thinking with all those hard counters. This is crazy. What the crap? Where is the counter play? It's like riot has completely flushed their vision down the drain when it comes to top.

If any rioters are reading this, this is wrong. I mean I could see a 10% swing rate at most (55% in a good match up 45% in a bad one) but I'm seeing stuff like 61%/46%.

The best one I've seen so far is Karma because she's now a top too. Looks like she's about to get nerfed though with that win rate.

I think the issue is they don't think. They pay very little attention to top lane because it is an easy problem to ignore. No matter what happens, they can always fall back on the excuse that top has little impact so even if you feed your ass off, there's still a good chance it won't matter. Mid lane is mage vs mage usually, and even assassins have pretty lower interactive wave clear. So it is usually a battle of safer laners with a short lane that is hard to gank. So most of the attention goes on bot, but Riot has more or less balanced for 2v2 lanes. This has pretty much solidified the meta with riot doing very little to change any dynamic of the lane. It is not just the champions that go top, the very structure of the lane itself is incredibly punishing for many champions. I think the swing in match-ups is also explainable by the ridiculous amount of damage that gets put out there: in the past, making a mistake meant you took a nasty trade but probably didn't die. now if that happens, you just die. They've also been unable to balance ignite vs tp, and if that had a good balance to it I think top would be significantly less polarizing.

JamareeJun 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

They've also been unable to balance ignite vs tp, and if that had a good balance to it I think top would be significantly less polarizing.

Suggestions?

HateDaddyJun 27, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Suggestions?

By removing the dynamic entirely. Make TP a keystone. Give it a growing radius with levels, so that you can always tp from base to tower but you can’t tp from top to bot for example. Now you can take whatever sums you want top. This gives weaker champions the option of taking defensive summoner spells to survive the lane, and sacrificing a keystone. But I think this gives disadvantaged champions a chance in lane that they wouldn’t otherwise have, because it’s not like they really get to use their keystone anyway.

JamareeJun 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

By removing the dynamic entirely. Make TP a keystone. Give it a growing radius with levels, so that you can always tp from base to tower but you can’t tp from top to bot for example. Now you can take whatever sums you want top. This gives weaker champions the option of taking defensive summoner spells to survive the lane, and sacrificing a keystone. But I think this gives disadvantaged champions a chance in lane that they wouldn’t otherwise have, because it’s not like they really get to use their keystone anyway.

I don't think giving everyone TP would have that kind of results and if anything, would just change how everyone plays, you put a summoner on a keystone, even with reduced radius, the mere fact of getting a free TP is something FAR too good to pass up, hell, it's already good enough that ADCs are taking it now.

HateDaddyJun 27, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I don't think giving everyone TP would have that kind of results and if anything, would just change how everyone plays, you put a summoner on a keystone, even with reduced radius, the mere fact of getting a free TP is something FAR too good to pass up, hell, it's already good enough that ADCs are taking it now.

I seriously don’t see everyone sacrificing laning keystones, many of which scale great, just to have TP.

JamareeJun 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I seriously don’t see everyone sacrificing laning keystones, many of which scale great, just to have TP.

You have heavily underestimating the power of TP.

PopcornBunniJun 27, 20191 votes

It's not just the matchup winrates. The lane itself is where the matchups are really fucking bad. Look at the champion matchups indevidually and look at Lane Kill %s and first tower times. There's like a single matchup in top that isn't won at champ select and is skill based -- Riven vs Poppy , with poppy's W timing winning her kill% but Riven's waveclear netting her first tower.

TahmKench especially is horrible here, having an average matchup of +30% lane kill over the entire top lane roster.

https://na.op.gg/champion/tahmkench/statistics/top/matchup?targetChampionId=92

Just look at this shit. Against Vayne, one of tahm's hardest counters, he still wins in lane with +40%.

Renekton is Tahm's worst matchup in-lane, and Tahm is still +17% against him

ArcticDragonsJun 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It's not just the matchup winrates. The lane itself is where the matchups are really fucking bad. Look at the champion matchups indevidually and look at Lane Kill %s and first tower times. There's like a single matchup in top that isn't won at champ select and is skill based -- vs , with poppy's W timing winning her kill% but Riven's waveclear netting her first tower.

especially is horrible here, having an average matchup of +30% lane kill over the entire top lane roster.

https://na.op.gg/champion/tahmkench/statistics/top/matchup?targetChampionId=92

Just look at this shit. Against Vayne, one of tahm's hardest counters, he still wins in lane with +40%.

Renekton is Tahm's worst matchup in-lane, and Tahm is still +17% against him

There are a couple more skill matchups than that. Jax vs Fiora, Renekton vs Darius, Fiora vs Irelia, Akali vs Riven, and Riven vs Fiora.

Nik NikersonJun 27, 20191 votes

It isn't a balance issue, it's a lane issue. Top lane is the most diverse role in the game because it's the flex role. You've got ranged characters like Kennen and Jayce, Mages, Assassins, Tanks, Divers, Juggernauts, Bruisers, Skirmishers, and anything else you can think of. How exactly do you think you're going to balance all those radically different champions with vastly different play styles so they all average out to about a 50% winrate?

GayFluffyUnicornJun 27, 20191 votes

Ofc it is a balance issue? What else? Step 1: Don't balance around fuckin imaginary numbers, holy shit.

Nik NikersonJun 27, 20191 votes

I just explained it: There's too many champions and styles of champions that get played top lane. When 60 odd champs get played toplane, of course you're more often going to get super polarized counter picks.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 28, 20191 votes

But it isn't?

Noones going to miss neeko,jayce, kennen, vlad, rumble. Not only does noone play these champions but their ONLY viable gameplay is win lane against any melee for free. Remove these champions from the game until riot figured out how to make them viable as real champions. Include gnar into that list as well.

Then you can start balancing melees around each other. FINALLY make items for divers, juggernauts. Black cleaver+x+y item line and trinity+x+y for the other class. One strong in lane and in snowballing the others more for lategame and scaling.

If shit like karma comes up toplane NERF HER. I DONT CARE ABOUT SUPPORT ROLE. That's just no excuse for one champion ruining an entire lane.

It literally doesn't take a lot of effort, all it takes is to drop the bias and r%%%%%ation of "b b but its so fun and diverse and ooga booga".

As soon as something non mage comes up midlane it gets insta nerfed. Same botlane.

But toplane has to be the dumpster for every failed champ design? NOPE.

Considering that noone can tell me with a straight face it is worth to sacrifice like 40 champions just so that r%%%%% proof picks like vlad, rumble and shit can be played by 1,x% that craves freelo.

PopcornBunniJun 27, 20191 votes

TahmKench blind wins 100% of matchups in lane phase but only about half of them translate to winning the game.

ArcticDragonsJun 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ze7ez0el,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-27T06:18:48.570+0000)

I'm not a top laner so I have to ask a question out of ignorance: are there any top champs a player can safely blind pick? Only some of those champs you mentioned are ranged so it's not like this is completely a melee vs ranged issue. The only thing I can think of is to hit the base stats of the problematic champs so they are weaker in the early game.

I'm kind of scared riot's answer is going to be rework every top laner until they are all "garbage" designs.

Every champion that you can safely blind pick is busted or cancerous beyond belief. Examples including basically every mage top laner (Cassiopeia, Vlad, Viktor, Kennen, and to an extent Rumble.), as for melee champs it's basically Tahm, Riven, and Jayce. Other than that most matchups you can just get counterpicked and lose lane without jng help.

Darkdemon653Jun 27, 20191 votes

For League, a 1v1 lane that's supposed to be for melees will always be heavily subject to rock, paper, scissors. Getting ranged out of top is easy enough, but that's a fairly minor problem compared to the one you describe, and the one you describe can't be solved without massive overhauls.

N0t even Cl0neJun 27, 20191 votes

Pick for teammates?

RoakeyDoakey36Jun 27, 20191 votes

This is literally the worse. I perma ban Tahm (except when I forget and ban Naut, cause he op too), and it's great when I see the enemy pick Teemo or Darius, since then I can pick Gnar or Morde into them and do fine, but when I blind pick Camille or Yasuo, and then they pick Darius... I hope to just leave lane 0/3 and 40 cs behind.

CarpeConundrumJun 28, 20191 votes

Hashinshin answered this. One of the ways to fix top lane is to change the tribush path to make it harder for jungle to gank so that it's more of a decision to gank rather than a gank because it's a gank.
Another issue is that bruisers do not outlevel tanks. I've been playing tryn in bronze every game I can trying to carry myself out and something I've noticed, if I'm against a Garen, Nasus, Mundo, Kench, Ornn, etc... They will all be level 12 with zero kills and behind 20-50 CS while I am level 10 or 11 with 1-2 kills and 20-50 more CS than them.

Another balance feature should be to fix dueling. A tank should never scale so hard that they can soak up damage with zero items against a tryn who bought LW as a first item just to try to penetrate some armor and do more than tickle a Garen. You should never have to feel like you're slapping a tank with a pool noodle despite having more farm and more build than them. The lane should be a race to build. Players should be forced to tactically B to buy items, lane freezing should be much more important and impactful. If I freeze the minion wave by my turret, a Garen or Darius shouldn't be able to E or Q through my wave, run under tower and chunk me down to nearly zero health just because they can take 3-4 turret hits at level 6 with cloth and boots.

To put it succinctly. If I can farm damage before a tank can farm armor, I should have the advantage in lane. The tanks shouldn't scale so hard in armor and HP that there's virtually no way to compensate with damage and armor pen. Tanks should also not be able to soak damage to that degree while also being capable of chunking down bruisers from 100 - almost nothing in one combo. Garen shouldn't be able to soak damage and deal tons of damage with no items against a bruiser with tia or shiv.