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You know thinking about it, I wish Wukong had the same treatment like Viktor

ValiantKiller··3 votes·1,808 views

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/z5urEfMu-quick-gameplay-thoughts-october-24

According to this post and what they said, They won't touch Viktor by all means till every pre-season change is shipped into live server and see how things goes before giving him any sort of nerfs.

Yet when it came to MonkeyKing they shipped a hard nerf to his skills while in same patch they shipped a hard nerf to assassin runes and made a little change to item 3147 .

So why Viktor get such treatment while MonkeyKing just get hard nerfed back then ?

And here what they said about Viktor and let's compare it to wukong back then: It's quite strong when picked into the right enemy team and opposing lane (melee that aren't extremely mobile). It's not looking like a good choice so far into other team comps however, so seems pretty risky as a blind pick. "The sames goes for wukong back then if he was picked into heavy tanky team he would be super useless"

Preseason changes will likely impact top Viktor's effectiveness. Timewarp Tonic and Klepto changes will potentially shift its viability, given both of those are standard picks at present for it. Additionally wider preseason changes, particularly tower plating, will impact all champions to some degree. "And you didn't take the same mind set with wukong when you decided to nerfs leth items and nerf assassin runes"

Finally it's also cool to see a champ getting played in a different way as an evolving reaction to other champs being common/strong. "So it's cool for you to see mages abuse tank items but not cool to see diver abuse leth items ?"

Side note : Viktor is legit problem for all melee combos aside from the busted Irelia top side while late game it impossible to kill him while he just can melt you down easily.

20 Comments

SwiftKitten882 votes

MonkeyKing is easier to play than Garen .

Viktor at least takes some skill, as even hashinshin tried it and literally fed his ass off enough to get banned.

( although its hashinshin so I'm not sure if that actually proves my point)

ValiantKiller2 votes

{quoted}

MonkeyKing is easier to play than Garen .

Viktor at least takes some skill, as even hashinshin tried it and literally fed his ass off enough to get banned.

( although its hashinshin so I'm not sure if that actually proves my point)

I mean still it not a reason to leave him like that, Irelia require skills so we leave her busted ?That not a logic.

SwiftKitten882 votes

{quoted}

I mean still it not a reason to leave him like that, Irelia require skills so we leave her busted ?That not a logic.

im not convinced tank victor top IS busted.

i mean everyone knows Irelia is thew most broken champ in the game but riot barely sneezed on her for their own stupid reason. i cant defend that..

what i can defend is riot MonkeyKing nerf.. that was 100% needed and it was done properly.. anf honestly i would have hit him down even more than they did.

Irelia Pyke both need to be hit just as hard as MonkeyKing was

Khazix only needs that stupid change reverted back to .2 ( or idk maybe compromise .3??. but right now he is flat out broken) the thing is we knoiw what brok him so thats an easy revert

Kaisa Urgot Akali are overtuned and need to takes some hits but arn't as broken as Irelia or Pyke

and Nocturne just needs a slight change to hos vision removal works on his ulti

after that is dont we can focus on the new outliers. ( such as Quinn )

but MonkeyKing was just as bad as Irelia is now.

i can't fathom why riot thought a 5 ms nerf was an acceptable one

but i will 100% back them on the decision they made on MonkeyKing

as he was even worse than Irelia is now

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

im not convinced tank victor top IS busted.

i mean everyone knows Irelia is thew most broken champ in the game but riot barely sneezed on her for their own stupid reason. i cant defend that..

what i can defend is riot MonkeyKing nerf.. that was 100% needed and it was done properly.. anf honestly i would have hit him down even more than they did.

Irelia Pyke both need to be hit just as hard as MonkeyKing was

Khazix only needs that stupid change reverted back to .2 ( or idk maybe compromise .3??. but right now he is flat out broken) the thing is we knoiw what brok him so thats an easy revert

Kaisa Urgot Akali are overtuned and need to takes some hits but arn't as broken as Irelia or Pyke

and Nocturne just needs a slight change to hos vision removal works on his ulti

after that is dont we can focus on the new outliers. ( such as Quinn )

but MonkeyKing was just as bad as Irelia is now.

i can't fathom why riot thought a 5 ms nerf was an acceptable one

but i will 100% back them on the decision they made on MonkeyKing

as he was even worse than Irelia is now

Could be but he wasn't busted more than irelia right now, she is more tanky and she just sherd tankers without armor pen.

Sharpest glasses1 votes

{quoted}

im not convinced tank victor top IS busted.

i mean everyone knows Irelia is thew most broken champ in the game but riot barely sneezed on her for their own stupid reason. i cant defend that..

seems like its true, low elos take more weeks to know whats broken or not...

SwiftKitten882 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sharpest glasses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Zaqo7UUL,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2018-10-27T00:39:13.069+0000)

seems like its true, low elos take more weeks to know whats broken or not...

well I've never once seen it... so its kinda hard to form an opinion on something...

if you think I'm going to take the word of people on this forum your crazier than riots balance team.

once i see it, once i face it.. I'll form an educated option. but im not going to call for buffs or nerfs until i have solid proof, based not only by data, but by my own experience.

Sharpest glasses1 votes

So in the end you talk about Viktor top despite having no clue about his current state. You didnt saw him neither in your game nor in other game... But you are able to say with confidence :

Viktor at least takes some skill,

No. Viktor top take no skills. You dont have to aim (you dont need his lazer) and you're against melees.

Wukong top recquir skills for a simple reason

**being able to win with a weak champ ** that takes skill and has counterplay built into a kit makes u good,

but im not going to call for buffs or nerfs until i have solid proof, based not only by data, but by my own experience.

Anyway, they'll nerf him. They say its okay, but the pick is now perma in Worlds, same in high elo.

Sharpest glasses1 votes

{quoted}

MonkeyKing is easier to play than Garen .

From where this Bs come from ??? Just play him. He's so weak during laning phase, not int is even harder than a drunk hasagi player.

Hashinshin only fed cause he was against a smurf chall AND cause he started his lane flashless.

SwiftKitten881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sharpest glasses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Zaqo7UUL,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-10-27T00:37:41.529+0000)

From where this Bs come from ??? Just play him.

i have played him, and my very first thought was " damn this is the easiest champ i have ever touched" it was an "all for one" match, it was a complete joke.. point and click dash.. auto attack empower, press a button turn invisible, r spin and knockup.

like u cant exactly argue thats a complex kit, no skillshots, no kiting just a point and click dash in and invisibility to get out

like Garen u can actaully mess u up, if mis tie your CC break our used your slow break before you reach an enemy. garen its possible to screw up on..MonkeyKing is absolutely brainless

Hashinshin only fed cause he was against a smurf chall AND cause he started his lane flashless.

hashinshin fed because he has no concept of balance, he never looks at his own mistakes, and blames others, and just relies on his mechanical skill rather than ever using his brain.

like i have seen TF blade and every time i see him on a broken champions carrying I'm like... so what... he is absurding a broken champsion.. it wasn't until i actaully saw him on Ornn that i actually saw some good plays on him that was worthy of someone at his rank.

playing broken champs donest make u good, being able to win with a weak champ that takes skill and has counterplay built into a kit makes u good,

if your opponents doesn't feel "outplayed" when you kill them, imo then your playing a champion that doesn't showcase the skill of a player.

Sharpest glasses1 votes

i have played him, and my very first thought was " damn this is the easiest champ i have ever touched" it was an "all for one" match, it was a complete joke.

This kind of experience is totaly irrelevant. Are you serious ?? All for one ??? I can understand why most on this boards (most non mains) say Wukong is fine, most of you base your opinion on 4fun mode and on pre nerf.

like u cant exactly argue thats a complex kit, no skillshots, no kiting just a point and click dash in and invisibility to get out

Nobody say its complexe. Its just a simple thing, Wukong is harder to play than Garen, both are simple.

like u can actaully mess u up, if mis tie your CC break our used your slow break before you reach an enemy. garen its possible to screw up on.. is absolutely brainless

so you can mess your aa reset with Wukong, if you want to go this way. Both are braindead. You, cant mess up with Garen unless YOU ARE BAD.

hashinshin fed because he has no concept of balance, he never looks at his own mistakes, and blames others, and just relies on his mechanical skill rather than ever using his brain.

he played it bad BUT if it was against a "normal" player (mean equal to his rank), and he started with his fllash, the game would would be different. You can really see how much damage he dealed despite being so behind (against a Riven).

like i have seen TF blade and every time i see him on a broken champions carrying I'm like... so what... he is absurding a broken champsion..

???

playing broken champs donest make u good,

True... BUT winning with them dosnt mean you arent good. Playing meta and best champs is normal.

being able to win with a weak champ that takes skill and has counterplay built into a kit makes u good,

every picks of TFblade has counterplay in their kit. And NO, picking weak champ isnt a proof of anything. you just handicap yourself for a baseless pride.

if your opponents doesn't feel "outplayed" when you kill them, imo then your playing a champion that doesn't showcase the skill of a player.

Low elo players will rarely feel outplayed, thats the reality.

Moody P1 votes

viktor is piss easy to play, just because hashinshin first picked and got bodied by a smurf+jungle camp doesn't make it hard

SwiftKitten881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Zaqo7UUL,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2018-10-27T00:53:59.923+0000)

viktor is piss easy to play, just because hashinshin first picked and got bodied by a smurf+jungle camp doesn't make it hard

if u think im saying its hard because hashinshin failed at it your not reading my post

your swapping cause and effect.. hashinshin failed it him becuase he is hard

his laser is a very weird ability to use his stun field required setup and timing

his ulti requires unit input direct for maximum effectiveness

his Q is a brain dead simple ability, but thats his only ability in his kit that is

Moody P1 votes

viktor isn't hard. E is a vector skillshot which is just fancy talk for a straight line you can fire from any direction; R isn't hard, you wouldn't call Annie or Mord difficult for needing to do the same thing

he's far from brain dead, sure, but he's not difficult

SwiftKitten881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Zaqo7UUL,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2018-10-27T01:59:29.323+0000)

viktor isn't hard. E is a vector skillshot which is just fancy talk for a straight line you can fire from any direction; R isn't hard, you wouldn't call Annie or Mord difficult for needing to do the same thing

he's far from brain dead, sure, but he's not difficult

it becomes hard when u need to manage it with a bunch of _other _complex abilities.

annie and mord really only have to deal with a single ability.

im sorry but even going my riots own chart you can see "s one of the higher skill champs"

idk why were even having this conversation

https://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions/Ratings

its a rather rude system riot did with rating of only 1-3

and some of them like Ezreal i find to be wrong

ok well a bunch fo other i find strange too [zombie-nunu-bummed]

BUT THE POINT IS

Viktor takes skill MonkeyKing Garen XinZhao MasterYi

really dont..

chipndip12 votes

It isn't about taking skill. It's about the overall game play. If Wu wants to be viable, all he can do is 1-shot from stealth. Shit is NOT fun for anyone but him.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

It isn't about taking skill. It's about the overall game play. If Wu wants to be viable, all he can do is 1-shot from stealth. Shit is NOT fun for anyone but him.

MonkeyKing IS viable... he doesn't need to be "broken" and be able to 1 shot you to be "viable"

he literally have a 52% winrate

there isnt a champion in the game right now that is "non-viable" except perhaps Sejuani

there are weak ones and there are strong ones

then there are broken ones

but having your champ not be "broken" doesn't mean your somehow "non-viable".

a 45-56% winrate is bad.. and if u dont love the champ and u haven't mastered it you probably wont win with it

but i caried some unranked games as Nidalee even back when she had a 41% win-rate in early season 7 ( i never would have tried it in ranked becuase the chances are absurdly low)

but i really dont think people understand what "viable" means

viable adjective capable of working successfully; feasible.

it donest mean.. "good" it didn't mean, "great" or "strong" let alone "busted" or "overpowered"

its means it "CAN" work its feasible

MonkeyKing is not only "viable" he is STRONG

infact his is ranked 10th in winrate not that winrate is all inclusive, but it certainly disqualifies you from being "weak" when you're above 50% in every elo bronze-diamond.

in fact is also possible to be viable but WEAK, viable means its possible to do, not that "its the best choice"

your implying that right now MonkeyKing isnt "viable" which means he is WORSE than "Weak" which is literally not only false, he is actually STRONG.

keep in mind here i am using the LITERAL definition of the word. if you want to make up your own "league based definition" go ahead.. but it wont change the ACTUAL meaning of the word.

hell we already know people like to make up their own definition of shit like "bruiser" or "Tank"

being a "tank" for example in gaming terms.. is the same across all games

it is defined by the ability to absorb damage

this fact does not exclude it from dealing damage,, it donest mean anythign else.. it just mean.. it can TAKE a lot of damage before i can be taken down.

now a LOT of people in league like to mess up that defintion becuase " oo league definition means X"

and sure but i can say and apple is an "vegetable" and i can confiucnce 300 people people that its a vegetable. and maybe it your small cult following you might be coinsidered correct" but it wont change the fact thats its actually a fruit.

you're using the world "viable" in a way that is not only inconsistent with, but nearly the opposite of the actual meaning.

and therefore.. YOU ARE WRONG.

/end

haaaaaaalp2 votes

Game should be balanced around how strong a champion is when played well. The ease with which a champion can be played shouldn't be a factor. Also, "easier" champions tend to be healthier for the game than the monstrosities that riot has been churning out recently.

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

Game should be balanced around how strong a champion is when played well. The ease with which a champion can be played shouldn't be a factor. Also, "easier" champions tend to be healthier for the game than the monstrosities that riot has been churning out recently.

Akali Yasuo Irelia they not easy champions and they the most banned and toxic among all champions, people say MonkeyKing is busted yet they keep ignore the pentakill champions cause they not easy to play.

painkills1 votes

Yeah. And even more than the Viktor situation, the whole way Irelia and Leblanc changes have been handled makes the difference in treatment extremely evident.

Wukong's E was nerfed 40 base damage, Q lost 20 base damage and 0.1 AD scaling. Electrocute and Duskblade were also hit.

Irelia lost 5ms, Leblanc lost 10 damage on an ability she rarely lands for damage.

Really?

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. And even more than the Viktor situation, the whole way Irelia and Leblanc changes have been handled makes the difference in treatment extremely evident.

Wukong's E was nerfed 40 base damage, Q lost 20 base damage and 0.1 AD scaling. Electrocute and Duskblade were also hit.

Irelia lost 5ms, Leblanc lost 10 damage on an ability she rarely lands for damage.

Really?

As long as he not flashy stupid looking champion that sell skins, no one will care aside from us. They legit hit his knee when he was consider "OP" by them cause he able to burst someone and then die after that yet Irelia win lane against almost all champions, hyper carry late game, very tanky with her W and impossible to stop it while in same time putting alot of damage.

And Leblanc legit can penta kill a whole squishy team and win lane, yet all of that is fine for game.

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