Randuins just went from most trash tank item to most OP tank item in PBE

So...not exactly that bad when you consider ADCs are more likely to be tank shredders late game rather than during the tank powerspike?

I fail to see your point. If you go glasscannon all the way expect to die easily. The + combo costs 2200g + IE and 1 Zeal Item we have 8200g. Randuins + FH + gargoyle costs 8200g too. But you can kill the tank with the same amount of Gold while also beeing in the tanks best powerspike/phase ...

You can try to go IE + 2 Zeals vs squishy guys for max burst, but then you should expect to get killed even by tanks (Until you hit lategame). Also I wouldnt consider 3 items as midgame anymore, at best late midgame. You should be level 14-16ish so we are near early lategame already.

Also Adcs normaly have more Gold in midgame+ than tanks!

I think/hope that thats just a typo or was forgotten since the "new" thornmail still says that its deals 15% bonus armor and 15% incoming dmg. Only randuins is missing this incoming dmg return! It should be 15% bonus armor and 15% incoming dmg, and 30% bonus armor and 15% incoming if the attack crited. We are still very early, so typos likely exist.

Otherwise we are talking about a huge nerf to thornmail and randuins!

As a little comparinson: 1000 raw dmg (a crit), and 200 bonus armor. Old Thornmail = 200 dmg return, new Thornmail/Randuins = 210 Dmg return. This dmg is then reduced by the targets mr (normaly about 20-30%). Without the "incoming dmg return" we have 50 and 60 dmg respectivly.... before enemy resistance...

So I dont think that they would remove the "incoming dmg return" part

OK let me show you some math: 1000 raw dmg (a crit), and 200 bonus armor(~300 total). Old Thornmail would deal 200 dmg, the new randuins would deal 210 dmg. Both get reduced by your mr by around 25-30%, so its 140 dmg and 147dmg. You take 7 dmg more...

Warlords bypasses the armor negation of your heals, it heals you regardless of how much dmg you did.

Also the %reduction stacks multiplicativ! not additiv! So if we have a 400 armor tank (80% reduction) and the 15% extra crit reduction, the 15% is actually only 3% more reduction vs crits, not 15%!

Then again, with a 1300g last wisper and a 900g Vamp you heal atleast decently! It will not be enough to outheal the dmg, but you will take alot less. Tanks now having lower HP and more armor this reduces the effectiv health lategame, so dont need as many AAs to kill them = take less dmg.

Its magic dmg, go flat mr runes for 35% or scaling mr for 40% reduction oft return dmg... or by a magic resist item like ,, , if you really want to go crazy.

Remember, you get 30% only on crits! So in the midgame, where you have ~50% crit chance, 50% of your AAs deal LESS dmg to you then they would have if the person had the old Thornmail... LESS dmg return!!! Only with more Critchance, which you get later, THEN it does more dmg to you! (but you should have the 2200g combi by then)

(Basically it fucks up yasou and tryn early alot more!)

I claim to be a theorycrafter, I may not be completely unbiased but I can asure you that I am one of the most unbiased people her on boards. I do the math, I dont care what people think, I calculate what is right and what wrong if its possible. And yes even Proplayers can be wrong too, just because they are problayers doesnt mean that everthing they say is right!

Assuming from your wording, you watched Phylol's video, right? He makes mistakes too, and lately has been biased alot and claimed alot of simply wrong stuff, sadly.

And lastly GA is for AD assassins and adcs now. You get ~1000HP back from it. So I think tiny bit more durable tanks in the midgame, which are weaker lategame, is worth the tradeoff for this item!

Any questions/remarks left untouched?