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Can we revert the Sona rework, or have her reworked again?

Masala Chai··12 votes·845 views

I'm tired of all these Sona players (removing names) complain about how her rework was a total fiasco (because maybe it was).

I'm tired of those said people artificially adjust their upvotes because of how much they want to appeal to sheep.

I'm tired of those said people again attacking everyone who doesn't agree with them, and calling them liars.

I'm tired of not seeing her being played in professional.

I'm tired of these "Kill Fearless" and "Kill Meddler" witch hunts.

I'm tired of being bursted down after one combo by a Sona because utility isn't optimal on her.

I'm tired of having really low kill pressure compared to most other supports when I play with her.

I'm tired of people claiming that she is mediocre, because she really isn't.

I'm tired of Nami filling Sona's niche, it's about diversity right?

To be straight forward with you, Sona while decent in play, she was poorly designed by Fearless during her rework. Her kit is so incredibly binary and dull, and it doesn't feel like how a musician should play music. She feels like mash Q W E as fast as you can. Classical musicians don't improv (she sure as hell isn't a freelance modern 21st century hip-hop violinist). If I were to put a piece to how her current kit feels, I would put Twinkle, Twinkle for her kit, it's extremely simple, but doesn't have a specific high, or low, and doesn't feel like playing with skill. Bard fills the musician niche almost perfectly, a Stravinsky- Rachmaninoff sort of character. Meaningful build up towards some peak of a phrase (Caretaker's Shrine), Rests (Chime collecting), Tuttis (teamfights), and Finales (Tempered Fate). Her character should feel more like a Reinecke- Saint-Saens esque character; sustained, delicate damage; meaningful heals, gentle build-up for a Grand Finale, and perhaps a deceptive cadence.

You did something like this with Fiora, where you felt that she was "Press R to win" instead of a meaningful duelist who you felt gave windows to outplay someone.

On a side note, I don't get why you guys removed the "Invisible stats" that Sona gave (because of a lack of clarity) while Graves is allowed to waltz around with 130 bonus Armor and MR with Quickdraw.

tl;dr people don't like Sona rework, her kit feels dull and unmusical, and that should be readdressed.

20 Comments

Jbels8 votes

Problem with Sona right now is that Nami is pretty much the better version of her, problem with Nami is that Bard is the better version of HER. That's like two layers of "Sona is useless" fuel

Masala Chai3 votes

Nami and Sona have more heal potential than Bard, because of the shrine build up and then single target only, and then the fact that Bard doesn't have a direct buff for his allies (such as Sona's Q or E, or Nami's Passive and E)

CHEESYLEEKS3 votes

Sona with 40% cdr,lichbane and decent mana i would play any day over nami

FantasySniper2 votes

Since when do people pick Bard over either?

lolipopevelynn4 votes

{quoted}

I'm tired of all these Sona players (A Wild AP Sona, Pika310) complain about how her rework was a total fiasco (because maybe it was).

I'm tired of those said people artificially adjust their upvotes because of how much they want to appeal to sheep.

I'm tired of those said people again attacking everyone who doesn't agree with them, and calling them liars.

I'm tired of not seeing her being played in professional.

I'm tired of these "Kill Fearless" and "Kill Meddler" witch hunts.

I'm tired of being bursted down after one combo by a Sona because utility isn't optimal on her.

I'm tired of having really low kill pressure compared to most other supports when I play with her.

I'm tired of people claiming that she is mediocre, because she really isn't.

I'm tired of Nami filling Sona's niche, it's about diversity right?

To be straight forward with you, Sona while decent in play, she was poorly designed by Fearless during her rework. Her kit is so incredibly binary and dull, and it doesn't feel like how a musician should play music. She feels like mash Q W E as fast as you can. Classical musicians don't improv (she sure as hell isn't a freelance modern 21st century hip-hop violinist). If I were to put a piece to how her current kit feels, I would put Twinkle, Twinkle for her kit, it's extremely simple, but doesn't have a specific high, or low, and doesn't feel like playing with skill. Bard fills the musician niche almost perfectly, a Stravinsky- Rachmaninoff sort of character. Meaningful build up towards some peak of a phrase (Caretaker's Shrine), Rests (Chime collecting), Tuttis (teamfights), and Finales (Tempered Fate). Her character should feel more like a Reinecke- Saint-Saens esque character; sustained, delicate damage; meaningful heals, gentle build-up for a Grand Finale, and perhaps a deceptive cadence.

On a side note, I don't get why you guys removed the "Invisible stats" that Sona gave (because of a lack of clarity) while Graves is allowed to waltz around with 130 bonus Armor and MR with Quickdraw.

tl;dr people don't like Sona rework, her kit feels dull and unmusical, and that should be readdressed.

im tired of seeing posts like this. she isnt getting her fucking reworked reverted. at best she is going to get number tweaks.

Masala Chai1 votes

OK OK, calm down. Disagreement is fine, but you don't have to start swearing like a sailor.

And please read the footnote as well, she doesn't feel like a musician in the traditiona sensel, she feels like the Bach "Playing an instrument is simple, simply press the right key at the right time, and the instrument will play itself"

Succubús GF3 votes

Dude sona is fine. I literally main sona. She cant be compared to Nami, because she isn't nami.Sona- deals damage, heals, speed buff, ult that isnt knock up but forces enemies to dance. Nami's ult actually takes a lot longer and her ap sclaings aren't as good. I slam the hell out of my bot lane because i go ap sona and wittle them down so hard they dont even get to react to jinx ult sniping their ass

Masala Chai2 votes

Nami has pretty decent damage in her own right, and she can potentially heal more than Sona, as well as her speed buff being available on all her basic abilities. I can see how Sona can be better than Nami in a lot of scenarios, but Nami also outclasses Sona in a ton of ways, especially because Nami's base damage numbers are actually pretty good, whereas Sona's is very close to Diana's Q in terms of base damage.

Succubús GF1 votes

Yes, Sona and nami are both good supports

Quepha3 votes

{quoted}

Nami has pretty decent damage in her own right, and she can potentially heal more than Sona, as well as her speed buff being available on all her basic abilities. I can see how Sona can be better than Nami in a lot of scenarios, but Nami also outclasses Sona in a ton of ways, especially because Nami's base damage numbers are actually pretty good, whereas Sona's is very close to Diana's Q in terms of base damage.

Sona outclasses Nami in damage. Her damage numbers on her abilities look less impressive but she consistently outdamages Nami by a wide margin in games due to how powerful it is for her poke to have a longer range and not cancel movement commands.

Profirix2 votes

In Final Fantasy 14, there is a mechanic for the Ninja class where you cast 3 abilities rapidly in a particular pattern in order to generate an effect. What if her abilities were based around 2-combo or 3-combo uses of Q, W, and E - and possibly integrate this system with her ultimate or just her base abilities. For example, a Q, Q, Q in rapid succession would be a high damage attack that would cost a lot of mana, a Q, Q, W combo would do less damage but might have some kind of shielding or restorative effect on your friend.

I don't know, its an idea to make her more interesting and less Q + powerchord > run away. Its actually quite frustrating as a melee support in bot lane without any sustain to deal with her.

Maple Crusader2 votes

[{quoted}](name=AureIion Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZXsEEAfA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-03-20T07:48:49.720+0000)

In Final Fantasy 14, there is a mechanic for the Ninja class where you cast 3 abilities rapidly in a particular pattern in order to generate an effect. What if her abilities were based around 2-combo or 3-combo uses of Q, W, and E - and possibly integrate this system with her ultimate or just her base abilities. For example, a Q, Q, Q in rapid succession would be a high damage attack that would cost a lot of mana, a Q, Q, W combo would do less damage but might have some kind of shielding or restorative effect on your friend.

I don't know, its an idea to make her more interesting and less Q + powerchord > run away. Its actually quite frustrating as a melee support in bot lane without any sustain to deal with her.

So the Invoker? Could be interesting.

FantasySniper2 votes

{quoted}

I'm tired of all these Sona players (A Wild AP Sona, Pika310) complain about how her rework was a total fiasco (because maybe it was). I'm tired of those said people artificially adjust their upvotes because of how much they want to appeal to sheep. I'm tired of those said people again attacking everyone who doesn't agree with them, and calling them liars. I'm tired of not seeing her being played in professional. I'm tired of these "Kill Fearless" and "Kill Meddler" witch hunts. I'm tired of being bursted down after one combo by a Sona because utility isn't optimal on her. I'm tired of people claiming that she is mediocre, because she really isn't.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/60586006.jpg

I'm tired of having really low kill pressure compared to most other supports when I play with her. I'm tired of Nami filling Sona's niche, it's about diversity right? To be straight forward with you, Sona while decent in play, she was poorly designed by Fearless during her rework...

tl;dr people don't like Sona rework, her kit feels dull and unmusical, and that should be readdressed.

And then this is where you lose me. Sona has the almost the same lack of kill pressure as Soraka. The only reason anyone complains about it because Sona accesses her safety as much through damage as she does her healing, and people always think that damage equals kill potential when it really doesn't. Nami and Sona already fill different niches. The rework wasn't a failure in the slightest, with very few flaws... It was all the changes after that that lost direction. It would be easy to tweak her back into a more satisfactory state just by changing numbers.

Where in the hell are people getting that bit about her "feeling unmusical"? That's like saying Ashe doesn't feel like an archer despite every one her abilities and attacks using her bow.

Masala Chai1 votes

If we leave Sona in her current state, I would like her to have some form of hard CC before Level 6. It doesn't have to be easily accessible, and here in lies the problem. Sona's kit right now is so faceroll that any form of hard CC you put on her other than Crescendo would be ridiculously broken.

I'm not sure if you've played a musical instrument, but unless you've only played the recorder (and trust me, the recorder is hard to master), but Sona feels noting like a musician, because she is SO easy. Ashe feels like an archer because of her sniping capabilities and volley in lane. Sona just feels like a faceroll champion, she could be a surgeon for all I care with her current kit

FantasySniper2 votes

Giving Sona a hard CC could be disastrous, but I wouldn't mind seeing her [E] Power Chord becoming a minor snare.

I used to play cello (and did a damned amount of DanceDanceRevolution and Rock Band, but not saying that counts). Trying to recreate the musical experience of a range of notes and chords is practically impossible with the MOBA format. If you reworked her to be more like Udyr or Karma, maybe you get closer, but probably not. If you reworked her into the LoL version of Invoker, it might just happen, but... good luck with that. She doesn't feel that faceroll to me. LeBlanc or Vlad is faceroll. Sona's ability use has to be calculated, and not spammed. The most "fire and forget" you do is using her [E] when roaming, and even that requires some attention if your entire team is moving as a group.

Quepha2 votes

Half of your reasons sound more like you're arguing for giving in to terrorist demands than actual arguments about the state of Sona.

Masala Chai2 votes

League Community = Terrorists?

Governments negotiate with terrorists all the time dude.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

League Community = Terrorists?

Governments negotiate with terrorists all the time dude.

Giving in to demands not because you agree with their position but because you don't want them to continue with an action you don't like.

Linna Excel1 votes

I'm tired of being bursted down after one combo by a Sona because utility isn't optimal on her.

Sona is a squishy poke champ. If you get burst down by her, you are doing something wrong.

I'm tired of having really low kill pressure compared to most other supports when I play with her.

She has great kill steal potential though. :p That said, she's got healing, poke, a meh CC, and team mobility. I don't think she should have too much dueling potential.

I'm tired of Nami filling Sona's niche, it's about diversity right?

Nami is harder to play. Also I think Sona is a better healer overall with less mana worries.

To be straight forward with you, Sona while decent in play, she was poorly designed by Fearless during her rework. Her kit is so incredibly binary and dull, and it doesn't feel like how a musician should play music.

Her rework is very close to her previous kit overall. He mostly fiddled with her aura mechanic because #LCSbigplays. I'm not sure I want riot to turn her into Guitar Sona either. Her simple, straightforward kit has always been part of her appeal and makes her a good support.

Her character should feel more like a Reinecke- Saint-Saens esque character; sustained, delicate damage; meaningful heals, gentle build-up for a Grand Finale, and perhaps a deceptive cadence.

So you want her Q even more spammable? That means lichbane is going to be even more core on her than it was before. A big heal means you'll get longer CDs to go with it or some crazy cost like Soraka. I really don't think these things (plus kill potential/dualing) would work unless riot was willing to move her away from support and more towards mid.

warpenguin5551 votes

Yes please. When Sona is good she's a friggen nightmare to play agaisnt (cmon Sona mains you know its true) When shes balanced / weak she's useless. Hell I hate having a Sona support when I ADC because it feels like your going in alone

She needs to be the biggest update for sure once Riot get to supports if they dont do anything before hand. I agree with the point about the Kill Meddler threads completely. Gosh even the Cass players weren't this bad. OK maybe at 1st but some Sona players are still making these while the Cass players at least stopped before she was announced for the update. I say keep the aura's (maybe find a way to make them more interesting) and keep her ult, scrap the rest and start again.

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