Riot and the Year of Discontent

Masala Chai·4/18/2018, 8:09:02 PM·92 votes·18,819 views

Hi, I'm Masala Chai, a Karma and Kalista (RIP) main, you may have known me under the previous tag of "Kasarana" for my previous posts about the new client and handholding mechanics that made otherwise fun kits consequentially feel bloated. Today, I'd like to discuss "Game Design" in the context of League of Legends and how Riot isn't really living up to their promise of addressing pain points.

Keep in mind that I'm no game designer, nor do I feel explicitly qualified to either advise nor attempt to say that I could possibly be better at balancing League of Legends. But the collective thoughts of a lot of my friends ranging from all MMRS and observations from frequenting these boards have simply led to this post.

2 years ago, if one were to look at the front page of the Gameplay Boards, the vast majority of the posts would be targetted more around champion kits being overtuned, unfun to play against, or the like.

Today, the posts on the boards now complain about broad systems and subsections of champion. In many perceptions, more sweeping changes have occurred that have, all in all, caused more broad problems on a much wider scale. Complaints about how the state of the game has been progressively getting worse have become much more common, (I think it's pretty undoubted that a growing portion of the playerbase have been growing increasingly discontent, given that this diverse sample can be representative of the population) and some doubting the mental faculties of people on the balance team. Individual champion balance threads, which often pointed to a single champion either being out of balance (ex. Poppy is crazy broken) have been swept into larger and more scopic generalizations (ex. Tanks are crazy broken).

Riot's previous methods to addressing individual champion problems through large-scale class reworks has perhaps only exasperated the problems that were ideally suppose to be fixed, and distilling the problems that that specific champion had to other champions.

Prior to the Marksman rework, every marksman had a fairly specific niche, barring perhaps Lucian and Graves who fixed themselves to that niche of bursty ADCs. The results of this rework has caused every top tier ADC (barring Kalista in pro play for different reasons), to be fixed into a long range or high DPS late game carry with the best ADCs being the one who can do the most damage reliably, whilst utility carries and lane bullies are either mediocre and unsatisfying, or simply pushed towards a solo lane or in the case of Graves, the jungle. As a result, the ADC rework has largely caused ADCs to be shoehorned together since their competitive niche has largely been lost. Caitlyn is in! Ashe is out! Xayah is in! Kalista is out! Instead of differentiating their themes, Riot has made the erronous decision to overlapping themes that allow an ADC to fill multiple niches, and whenever that one niche is best filled by one, the other fade off to being inferior versions, especially since ADC scaling curves have largely been homogenized.

Prior to the Assassin rework, the problem with Assassins is that they snowballed hard, and they snowballed fast and they often offered little counterplay. Today, the problems of them being feast or famine still exists, and they are still as frustrating to play against as before. But unfortunately, the assassin rework consequentially had the side effect of making the champions themselves unfun to play as (in the words of Fizz Enthusiast)

And the promise of the tank rework making them more satisfying, while making them deal less consistent damage and being bulky against large sweeping threats of a particular damage type have largely fallen through. With tanks now on average dealing more damage than certain bruisers in a game.

Over the past year, we have been getting messages through Meddler's Gameplay Thoughts that significant steps would be addressed to make kits more satisfying again, such as through reverts and other changes. Some of these have occurred, but others, lots of others, haven't thus far.

Now Riot has been explicitly stating that they wanted to address the problems that made League of Legends problematic at the conclusion of Season 7, where we had jumped clean off aplomb the Ardent meta, and there was a rolling boil in the community about how "the balance gets paid 6 figures to do nothing". Safelocked addressed the concerns of the playerbase through the fallout of Runes Reforged, things like Resolve path not being a particularly exciting playstyle since it's fundamentally a tank playstyle, and the skill curve associated with Unsealed Spellbook. These things are already being addressed through the addition of Chrysalis and Boneplating. Things like the 2 patch cycle of big patch- little patch, where the larger patch would bring systemically significant changes such as the mage item rework and champion updates, and the next patch would bring smaller changes and addressing anything weird that pops up.

But lately, we seem to get large individual champion changes through the smaller patch cycles, in direct contradiction to that philosophy. Less so, than the actual addressing of problems that arise in the aftermath of a VGU rework or new champion, all of them were released ironically in the smaller patches (8.3 for Swain, 8.5 for Kai'Sa, 8.7 for Irelia), which caused the "larger patches" being focused on addressing pain points. As a result, I don't think the large patch small patch thing is working since it seems to cause a reasonable reduction in the quality of work that the balance team can reliably put out. The size of the patch should be based on a patch by patch basis, not awkwardly structured, especially since the state of the game is so volatile given the large depth and penetration that League of Legends has across the world, especially in the Asia-Pacific region.

All in all Riot, you haven't been really living up to your whole vision or mission statement in any of the ways recently simply because you're taking the game that vast majority of us enjoy, and instead on focusing the game to be based around skill as it was in Season 3, when the largest influx of players percentage wise probably occured at a later date. While a breath of fresh air is always fun to have, the meta as it stands is stale, old, and the product of terrible balance decision that were made without enough thought nor with concern about the broader playerbase; while taking an inordinate amount of time to fix the established problems that were made by the error of judgement.

50 Comments

AMYS GRAVE4/18/2018, 8:54:57 PM36 votes

2 years ago, if one were to look at the front page of the Gameplay Boards, the vast majority of the posts would be targetted more around champion kits being overtuned, unfun to play against, or the like.

Today, the posts on the boards now complain about broad systems and subsections of champion. In many perceptions, more sweeping changes have occurred that have, all in all, caused more broad problems on a much wider scale.

This, this, this. People say people complaining now are looking through nostalgia goggles but back then issues were confined to individual champions, and bans solved the problems. We had tools to deal with the problems of the past, but no recourse against the problems of today.

SephAgro4/18/2018, 11:06:24 PM25 votes

Said this a million times. QQ on boards used to be about individual champions this champion killed me and I did not like it. Now its just pure hatred for the game itself, overall, is completely unfun.

Rins Thigh Socks4/18/2018, 8:11:28 PM20 votes

Riot and the Year of Discontent

That's every year. Ya'll ain't ever happy.

AirKingNeo4/18/2018, 10:15:08 PM16 votes

There's one basic design concept Riot doesn't get.

A more balanced game is a more fun game for everyone.

Vanjie4/18/2018, 8:13:50 PM11 votes

Agreed. Since season 2 I just don't know where this game is going now. They have too many champions and focus way too many resources on new champions. They need to start doing more VGU and faster because a third of the champion pool is outdated and bland.

KVbqbFsC8e4/18/2018, 9:21:27 PM6 votes

If you looked at the front page of Gameplay two years ago, all of the posts would have been about Dynamic que. 2016 was the year of discontent.

DestructoDave4/18/2018, 11:03:28 PM5 votes

Ive played this game since the end of S1, beginning of S2. All people do is whine. Its always the worst year. The worst balance. People whine and cry about eveyrthing.

Echostormxx4/19/2018, 12:47:49 AM5 votes

Yeah. Pretty much agree. Riot is just fucking up over and over... It was bound to happen sometime, but of course it literally happens the same year I start playing. I feel like the game will die soon. Oh well.

Bumperlane4/19/2018, 1:46:16 AM4 votes

Fuck riot. Idiots. Morons. Just fuck them.

Velasan4/19/2018, 12:29:08 AM4 votes

A bit off topic, but I miss old ADC Graves. He makes no sense as a jungler.

Ratpie4/19/2018, 3:43:10 AM3 votes

There has always been issues, but honestly it was livable. Ever since the rune rework this game has tanked. Only a few champs are really viable and damage is out of control. There has always been Meta, but with good play a lot of champs used to be usable. But right now, even if you outplay someone, if you are not playing a meta champ, you are still dead. It feels like 3/4 of the champs are a handicap to your team.

Fear the Kayn4/19/2018, 3:34:00 AM3 votes

It's a fucking joke that Riot balances the game based on professional, 5 man teams who practice playing the game together every single day.

Linna Excel4/19/2018, 11:52:26 AM2 votes

Yeah, I'm starting to think that the class updated like the MYMU, the assassin update, and the tank update ended up doing more harm than good.

So with that in mind, I think we can draw a few conclusions. The first is that class itemization may not be the bandaid riot thinks it is. This isn't to say there isn't room for improvement, but I don't think class items can be balanced one class at a time. Riot either needs to look at the items individually and let the first ones they pick for each class be the baseline moving forward and then one by one rebalance everything according to that baseline, or they have to rebalance every item together.

Second is that fixing a class might have worked in theory, but in practice they didn't have the ability to work with all the champs in that class and there's too much going on. Riot only touched a few champs in each class and to be honest they ended up creating more issues. Riot should probably have given all the champs in a class smaller numerical tweaks rather than mid-sized updates to a few. It's not that every champ would be perfect or their kits would be improved, but it would have allowed riot to give everyone in a class a little tap in the right direction.

Third is we need to have a little understanding. This game is just so complicated in that there's too much to balance and quiet frankly stopping all new champs and doing exclusively VGUs wouldn't be enough should riot go that route (I'm a firm believer they shouldn't stop with new champs). And to be fair, bruiser vs ADC class balance issues have been going on for as long as I've been following the game.

Fourth is while I know riot really wants to keep the pro scene and the non-pro scene the same game, I don't think they can balance the two. Pros just have so much more knowledge and coordination that they are playing a different game than solo-queue. I also think that some champs just can't effectively be balanced for both pro and soloqueue. We can also ask if riot is balancing for the correct elo. Right now it is high-plat to diamond range. Maybe riot needs to raise the bar to the pro scene or lower the bar to the average player if they are unwilling to split the balance.

Fifth, even after 2 years people are still complaining about all the Ryze reworks. Riot should stop sinking time into that champ. He's not worth fixing with all the other issues going on.

Karfuss4/19/2018, 8:21:51 PM2 votes

Game balanced died when Morello left.

I love how Ghostcrawler emphasised that powercreeping is something that must be avoided at all costs, then proceeds to do EXACTLY the opposite. Bit of a coinkydink that WoW's PvP got noticeably more balanced the months following his departure. Certainly no track record there, nope, what track record?

It's becoming abundantly obvious, to me at least, that League balance is going to continue to down spiral until someone pulls him off the wheel. By all means make him a backseat driver, but it's irresponsible to allow him to continue steering.

LVL99 Helper TK4/19/2018, 6:53:24 AM2 votes

u forgot to mention catch-up exp, and ambient gold generation

xShiNjiNx4/19/2018, 2:04:10 PM1 votes

Bring back skill expression and let the teamwork part play it’s inevitable role given the game is 5v5

DW Diana4/19/2018, 5:27:20 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Masala Chai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VtGtz0nU,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-18T20:09:02.233+0000)

Hi, I'm Masala Chai, a Karma and Kalista (RIP) main, you may have known me under the previous tag of "Kasarana" for my previous posts about the new client and handholding mechanics that made otherwise fun kits consequentially feel bloated. Today, I'd like to discuss "Game Design" in the context of League of Legends and how Riot isn't really living up to their promise of addressing pain points.

Keep in mind that I'm no game designer, nor do I feel explicitly qualified to either advise nor attempt to say that I could possibly be better at balancing League of Legends. But the collective thoughts of a lot of my friends ranging from all MMRS and observations from frequenting these boards have simply led to this post.

2 years ago, if one were to look at the front page of the Gameplay Boards, the vast majority of the posts would be targetted more around champion kits being overtuned, unfun to play against, or the like.

Today, the posts on the boards now complain about broad systems and subsections of champion. In many perceptions, more sweeping changes have occurred that have, all in all, caused more broad problems on a much wider scale. Complaints about how the state of the game has been progressively getting worse have become much more common, (I think it's pretty undoubted that a growing portion of the playerbase have been growing increasingly discontent, given that this diverse sample can be representative of the population) and some doubting the mental faculties of people on the balance team. Individual champion balance threads, which often pointed to a single champion either being out of balance (ex. Poppy is crazy broken) have been swept into larger and more scopic generalizations (ex. Tanks are crazy broken).

Riot's previous methods to addressing individual champion problems through large-scale class reworks has perhaps only exasperated the problems that were ideally suppose to be fixed, and distilling the problems that that specific champion had to other champions.

Prior to the Marksman rework, every marksman had a fairly specific niche, barring perhaps Lucian and Graves who fixed themselves to that niche of bursty ADCs. The results of this rework has caused every top tier ADC (barring Kalista in pro play for different reasons), to be fixed into a long range or high DPS late game carry with the best ADCs being the one who can do the most damage reliably, whilst utility carries and lane bullies are either mediocre and unsatisfying, or simply pushed towards a solo lane or in the case of Graves, the jungle. As a result, the ADC rework has largely caused ADCs to be shoehorned together since their competitive niche has largely been lost. Caitlyn is in! Ashe is out! Xayah is in! Kalista is out! Instead of differentiating their themes, Riot has made the erronous decision to overlapping themes that allow an ADC to fill multiple niches, and whenever that one niche is best filled by one, the other fade off to being inferior versions, especially since ADC scaling curves have largely been homogenized.

Prior to the Assassin rework, the problem with Assassins is that they snowballed hard, and they snowballed fast and they often offered little counterplay. Today, the problems of them being feast or famine still exists, and they are still as frustrating to play against as before. But unfortunately, the assassin rework consequentially had the side effect of making the champions themselves unfun to play as (in the words of Fizz Enthusiast)

And the promise of the tank rework making them more satisfying, while making them deal less consistent damage and being bulky against large sweeping threats of a particular damage type have largely fallen through. With tanks now on average dealing more damage than certain bruisers in a game.

Over the past year, we have been getting messages through Meddler's Gameplay Thoughts that significant steps would be addressed to make kits more satisfying again, such as through reverts and other changes. Some of these have occurred, but others, lots of others, haven't thus far.

Now Riot has been explicitly stating that they wanted to address the problems that made League of Legends problematic at the conclusion of Season 7, where we had jumped clean off aplomb the Ardent meta, and there was a rolling boil in the community about how "the balance gets paid 6 figures to do nothing". Safelocked addressed the concerns of the playerbase through the fallout of Runes Reforged, things like Resolve path not being a particularly exciting playstyle since it's fundamentally a tank playstyle, and the skill curve associated with Unsealed Spellbook. These things are already being addressed through the addition of Chrysalis and Boneplating. Things like the 2 patch cycle of big patch- little patch, where the larger patch would bring systemically significant changes such as the mage item rework and champion updates, and the next patch would bring smaller changes and addressing anything weird that pops up.

But lately, we seem to get large individual champion changes through the smaller patch cycles, in direct contradiction to that philosophy. Less so, than the actual addressing of problems that arise in the aftermath of a VGU rework or new champion, all of them were released ironically in the smaller patches (8.3 for Swain, 8.5 for Kai'Sa, 8.7 for Irelia), which caused the "larger patches" being focused on addressing pain points. As a result, I don't think the large patch small patch thing is working since it seems to cause a reasonable reduction in the quality of work that the balance team can reliably put out. The size of the patch should be based on a patch by patch basis, not awkwardly structured, especially since the state of the game is so volatile given the large depth and penetration that League of Legends has across the world, especially in the Asia-Pacific region.

All in all Riot, you haven't been really living up to your whole vision or mission statement in any of the ways recently simply because you're taking the game that vast majority of us enjoy, and instead on focusing the game to be based around skill as it was in Season 3, when the largest influx of players percentage wise probably occured at a later date. While a breath of fresh air is always fun to have, the meta as it stands is stale, old, and the product of terrible balance decision that were made without enough thought nor with concern about the broader playerbase; while taking an inordinate amount of time to fix the established problems that were made by the error of judgement.

I'm relatively new to League, having only started last year, and very new to the boards having only started posting in the last couple of months (when i got sick of the continuous nerfs to malzahar), yet as I can see a lot of time, experience and knowledge has gone into this post I feel I should tell you that riot don't respond to boards posts unless it's with a vague assurance that "they will look into this", personal opinion that is just meant to shut you up, or sending a moderator to quote statistics that have no baring on what you said. They sadly don't they feel, or at least don't act like they have any responsibility to their loyal playerbase, and aim only to ensure the continuation of their pay packet through the release or reworks of champions, braking champions with buffs while releasing new skins to increase sales. This means that a champion getting a new skin will likely be make viable for a short period to maximize sales, after which they can nerf it back down in favor of the next one. ADC's have lots of skins because of this, and seeing as there are always 2 adc's in a game, they ensure an easy turnover by focusing on this market.

As previously stated I'm relatively new to league, but have worked in sales, marketing and customer service for 14 years (agent, manager, and head of). The first and second are above, the third is not their concern as long as the first two continue to operate well.

HungryAngry2SPP4/19/2018, 7:56:45 PM1 votes

When you see a wall of text that might contain the cure for ther cancer, but no TLDR [zombie-nunu-bummed] [vlad-salute] Bye have a great time

Tormentula4/20/2018, 12:05:21 AM1 votes

Its simple: riot doesn't understand their champs or their game.

There's 140 champions in league, and about at most 2-4 lead balance team rioters that don't main every single champion but make assumptions based off of "general game experience".. and you know the rest of the staff is underpressure because they're making a living and don't want to lose their paychecks by butting in and tell them they're wrong (especially at every opportunity like we can).

This is why champ mains burn the place down when they change a champion or its itemization because its way easier for them to see and understand strengths/weaknesses and how to apply or fix those strengths/weaknesses.. Riot just does things they're own way because they think they're the pros since they've designed the game for so long. I'm sorry but idc who's plat or diamond in the balance team, I don't get listened to by riot if i'm diamond, so why should I take what riot has to say any more seriously.

Meddler is even a support main in plat, and look at the state bot lane is in. Idc what rank your staff is, this is a prime example of why ranks mean nothing in league.


Off subject:

Remember this item: item 3026 ?

Fuck AP divers amirite? Elise Diana Zac.. I remember being able to make an impact and go on the ADC, potentially dying but at least distracting them long enough to say "I did a good job now it's time for my team to win" instead of "whelp, i have no itemization options, time to repeat the same build on probuilds for the 10th game in a row". I remember having 6 rune pages for one champ and several situational builds, now it's like rinse and repeat and it's getting stale.

ignyte4/20/2018, 4:24:11 AM1 votes

in my heart, i really think LCS and Esports in general are a big issue here. it is my memory that :

before the LCS was a BIG thing ( i mean investments, franchising, all the money being put into it) the game used to be relatively fine. there was a general Salty taste in the air but it wasnt concentrated. there were problems, but we all knew what the problems were, and besides everything has problems.

Now ? there are so many heavy investments into the esports side (NBA teams and stuff buying in) more and more of the game is being balanced around pro play. Gotta sell tickets, and get viewership so when i watch LCS i can #hastag State Farm Analysts Desk. ****

remember when Lane swaps were a thing ? Sure it was boring to watch, but it was a part of the game that was killed off by LCS viewers.

Small indie company, anyone remember that term?

money sucks. BTW dont listen to anything i say. im an idiot. A keyboard degenerate.

15424/20/2018, 8:26:08 AM1 votes

can't agree more pal, those roaster updates are a russian rulet for players, i used to main these champs Malzahar Talon Taric but now well i hardly touch them, recently i've come to accept the fact that riot doesn't care about the players the only thing they want it's skins money, and have being to try to play them again but they are so damn bad, after talon update(it was my last option to play in mid) i went bont with support veigar and have been stuck with it since the assassin update, and what other folk say here about having no choice on itemization for example item 3004 being an ezreal exclusive item, or the change they did on malz making him rely 100% on his voidlings to do heavy damage that was a malz jungle/ad thing that mid ap malz didn't needed and now we are stuck with that stuff, nowadays i feel like they are trying to copy DOTA making champions more "complex" and giving them weird and useless kits.

AkhriPasta4/19/2018, 8:23:06 AM1 votes

where are you from ?

Finders Keepers4/19/2018, 1:14:36 PM1 votes

[{quoted}] and some doubting the mental faculties of people on the balance team