Manamune needs some changes

The Ecdysiast·Jul 21, 2018·2 votes·693 views

The 3 per 12s cap should be removed, to encourage more aggressive stacking of the item (which of course implies greater risk to the wielder). And the Shock passive should be made toggle again.

There should probably be more heavy changes than this, since one and only one champion can even build it effectively. Thanks to the difficulty of stacking it and the requirement of buying an additional mana item for it to match the AD of other options. But this is all I can think of for now.

9 Comments

AnAggravatedPimpJul 21, 20181 votes

The cap is to stop champs from instantly getting to the transform threshold and having a late game item in early or mid game. No cap isn't more risky, Jayce or Ezreal will still sling spells from a safe distance but now not hav to space their rotations out in order to stack effectively.

Edit: Note that I used Jayce and Ezreal just because you said Manamune. If the change extends to Tear then 50% of AP champs just bought that item

The EcdysiastJul 21, 20181 votes

Jayce hasn't built it for a solid year. It provides no CDR, so that wouldn't be the case for spell slinging AD champions anyway.

And still, no, it wouldn't even if we extended the change to tear. You still can't stack tear with autos, and wasting 40 mana to get 6 when Doran's Ring no longer gives mana on minion kill wouldn't be resource efficient. You'd be risking a lot to do it.

Warlord RhinarkJul 21, 20181 votes

My Double Tear Kayle build would abuse this.

I don't think it'd be healthy for the game.

The EcdysiastJul 21, 20181 votes

You don't get both effects. It prioritizes one or the other, and once you stack one it resets tear.

Warlord RhinarkJul 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZJRvOE5A,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-21T08:50:33.226+0000)

You don't get both effects. It prioritizes one or the other, and once you stack one it resets tear.

I didn't imply that I build 2 Tears at once.

I usually buy one Tear, build it into Manamune, fully stack it to Muramana, and then I buy the other Tear.

By removing the cap on Manamune, however, it will just make my stacking faster.

The EcdysiastJul 21, 20181 votes

Which means nothing since you and only you do that, and it's still less efficient than buying other items.

Warlord RhinarkJul 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZJRvOE5A,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-21T09:36:01.997+0000)

Which means nothing since you and only you do that, and it's still less efficient than buying other items.

Less efficient, how?

Double Tear seems like the perfect build on Kayle.

It solves her massive mana problems.
It gives both AD and AP, which Kayle really likes.
Gives CDR (Archangel's Staff at least) which Kayle also likes.
Kayle is one of the only champions in the game that has single target point and click damage spells, meaning her Q triggers Muramana's Shock passive.
Kayle is a mid-late game champion anyway, so the fact that you have to stack the items doesn't do much of a difference.

The EcdysiastJul 21, 20181 votes

I'll respond as follows:

She doesn't have mana problems. None of her builds include a mana item, since manaflow band alone is enough, thanks in part to the fact her ultimate has no cost.
The mana-to-AD/AP passive AWE is unique: you either get the bonus AD or the AP, not both.
Kayle gets 20% CDR from Nashor's Tooth, her most important core item. And as with manaflow, most Kayles bring Transcendence, since a 1.6 second difference in cooldown on her 10-second-duration E is negligible.
Her autos are what would be triggering it, so the point about her Q applying it means next to nothing. Having Shock at all would only make a difference if she builds normally but foregoes Void Staff for it, at which point the difference in damage against a target with MR is almost nonexistent.
The difference it makes would be that instead of being a mid-late champion you would be strictly a late game champion, as you'd be far behind in item gold efficiency with no stats to make up for it since she doesn't scale mana. Until they're stacked, the enemy would have a large advantage from just buying regular items.

As I said, you don't get both AWE effects, so buying both of them drastically reduces the gold efficiency of the other. There would be a case for Muramana, if not for the fact her regular build renders it needless.

Warlord RhinarkJul 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZJRvOE5A,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-21T10:31:55.150+0000)

She doesn't have mana problems. None of her builds include a mana item, since manaflow band alone is enough, thanks in part to the fact her ultimate has no cost.

Well perhaps mana "problems" wasn't the right term.

But building a mana item can practically let you stay in lane for pretty much, ever.

The mana-to-AD/AP passive AWE is unique: you either get the bonus AD or the AP, not both.

The League of Legends wikia suggests otherwise:

"The bonus stats granted by AWE are not shared with Archangel's Staff / Seraph's Embrace. This means that with Manamune and Archangel's Staff / Seraph's Embrace you will get both the bonus ability power and attack damage from both items' AWE."

Source: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Manamune

Kayle gets 20% CDR from Nashor's Tooth, her most important core item. And as with manaflow, most Kayles bring Transcendence, since a 1.6 second difference in cooldown on her 10-second-duration E is negligible.

Yeah but the extra CDR on Q and W allows her to stick to her target, and the extra CDR on her Ultimate allows her to become even more bullshit.

Her autos are what would be triggering it, so the point about her Q applying it means next to nothing. Having Shock at all would only make a difference if she builds normally but foregoes Void Staff for it, at which point the difference in damage against a target with MR is almost nonexistent.

Yeah but like you said, the difference in damage is nonexistent.

However, the utility Manamune brings over Void Staff is way better.

More mana to spam your spells.
Mixed damage so it becomes harder to itemize against.
It's cheaper.

The difference it makes would be that instead of being a mid-late champion you would be strictly a late game champion, as you'd be far behind in item gold efficiency with no stats to make up for it since she doesn't scale mana. Until they're stacked, the enemy would have a large advantage from just buying regular items.

Refer to point 2.

As I said, you don't get both AWE effects, so buying both of them drastically reduces the gold efficiency of the other. There would be a case for Muramana, if not for the fact her regular build renders it needless.

Refer to point 2.