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REAL Supports Champions are damn strong.

Skorch··4 votes·1,240 views

I've been wanting to do this post for like a week and a half but im doing a bunch of posts right now so why not.

REAL support champs are really good right now Lulu Janna especially. I mean personally i like it more than Brand Malzahar but hey I wish squishy supports enchanters were always Meta since they are SUPPORTS but anyway.

Heres why Enchanters are strong as shit right now.

item 3107 and item 3190. Thats pretty much it. These items are DAMN strong right now. And while that isnt the WORST thing to have (at least supports have toys to play with now.) They are a little too overtuned and also Tanks need some love to.

item 3107 Is simply up to often, the healing is still pretty good (300-500 lategame) But its CD is TOO short to be a mini soraka ult on an item every teamfight.

item 3190 600-700 health shields on your ENTIRE team isnt okay, at all. While 300 is a little to small, there has to be a decent middle ground somewhere. Maybe 450 or so. So that will save maybe 1 auto from the enemy ADC on your squishies without seemingly giving them an extra 1/3 bonus health.

item 3109 and item 3401 probably need base stat buffs for the person actually buying them. I only really like item 3109 on Taric (heres 60armor + Bonus healing as well as stoneborn ADC) And i never buy Face of the mountain (its probably me being bad) but the solo person shield just isnt worth it when i can get another tank item/support item. Id rather get item 2303.

But yeah TLDR Items are currently making or breaking supports and Tanks need love and locket and redemption shouldnt be a mandatory buy on EVERY supportesque champion.

22 Comments

StoryDuck5 votes

I wish I could build intended enchanter items like item 3504 item 3174 item 3222 and item 3050. Hopefully someday they will be strong enough.

LF Annie4 votes

braum actually is really strong with the use of item 3109

Sherogarth2 votes

I'd love to buy item 3109 on Taric but I only have one item slot left... item 3401item 2045item 3009item 3190item 3107.

Riot plis gibe us warding boots with some nice movement speed (Support Only).

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

I'd love to buy item 3109 on Taric but I only have one item slot left... item 3401item 2045item 3009item 3190item 3107.

Riot plis gibe us warding boots with some nice movement speed (Support Only).

I'd actually be okay with that, but other lanes would abuse the boots.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

ive been wanting warding boots forever. placing a ward grants 20% movement speed decaying over 3 seconds. 2 ward charges.

KasonaADC1 votes

As an adc main, I really can't complain. It was a joke at the beginning of this season, so I'm so happy I can happily kite tanks with plenty of peel now.

Although trying to 2v2 vs a lulu support. Kill me now. Polymorph into shield into slow into heal. It's like they don't take the first 1000 damage I deal to them.

Skorch3 votes

Yeah Lulus good but i dont think her (and resultingly Kog) really deserve any nerfs because of it. They are only strong cause of those damn items

MatthewRT21 votes

I like to pick up item 3401 on Thresh just because of it's situational value of keeping my adc/mid alive during a team fight if the enemy front line goes ham. Unless item 3109 gets some serious love from the balance team I don't think it is ever going to be a more compelling buy than redemption or locket

ChaddyFantome2 votes

{quoted}

I like to pick up item 3401 on Thresh just because of it's situational value of keeping my adc/mid alive during a team fight if the enemy front line goes ham. Unless item 3109 gets some serious love from the balance team I don't think it is ever going to be a more compelling buy than redemption or locket

Knicghts vow is actually really good right now. Locket and Redemption just overshadow it.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

nah its just the meta ;-)

chipndip11 votes

Don't forget that people MAGICALLY forget that they can build these on champs like Malzahar and Zyra.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Don't forget that people MAGICALLY forget that they can build these on champs like Malzahar and Zyra.

They aren't as good on thsese champs tho. the base heal got nerfed and they don't benefit from the statline besides the CDR.

Enchanters build other item 3114 items and have Heals and shields and thus actually benefit from the statline more than they do. a Soraka's item 3107 makes a Zyra look like a joke.

chipndip11 votes

This doesn't stop any other support from building it. Braum builds it. Leona builds it. Mage supports do it in pro play. Anyone can. Mage support players in solo queue just decide not to, even when explicitly asked to.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

This doesn't stop any other support from building it. Braum builds it. Leona builds it. Mage supports do it in pro play. Anyone can. Mage support players in solo queue just decide not to, even when explicitly asked to.

I didn't say it stops them from building it, tho. I said it makes it less good on them than Enchanters.

chipndip11 votes

Same for any non-Enchanter that does, and yet they do, so why not them? You're bringing up a non-point for no reason other than being contrary.

It's not AS OPTIMAL, but you can anyway, so just do it since those items are broken as hell and you peak mid-game without them anyway.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Same for any non-Enchanter that does,

??? what are you even saying? I think you need to reread the post.

My whole point was that non enchanters don't benefit from it as much as Enchanters.

and yet they do, so why not them?

They build it because it is still a good item. My point was that it isn't as good on as enchanters and isn't worth complaining about on non-enchanters. That was my point.

40+ 25/lvl isn't that much healing at all.

You're bringing up a non-point for no reason other than being contrary.

You cereal kiddo? Ill be sure to log that away, now if you don't mind I was trying to have an actual discussion and get a point across, not watch you felate yourself.

It's not AS OPTIMAL, but you can anyway, so just do it since those items are broken as hell and you peak mid-game without them anyway.

They really aren't that bad on champions that don't stack Forbidden idol items. What makes it a popular item regardless is the power of the range and potential of the item. If it had no cast range of example and the aoe was always around the user, these champs wouldn't be so likely to pick it up at all.

But because it is a semi global heal with damage component, that flexibility means there is always a point where ti can potentially be useful.

Only on Enchanters does it ever feel close to anythign resembling oppressive tho, as it ends up practically resetting HP bars and applying all healing/shielding buffs to the whole team.

On non enchanters that don't get those items, it just feels like an "eh, some healing and damage". That isn't to say ti is bad on them. ofc not. if you have a semi global healing damage satellite laser, its never a bad thing to have. But to complain that AP mage supports can get it too is silly to me. it rather pathetic when they use it in comparison.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

I didn't say it stops them from building it, tho. I said it makes it less good on them than Enchanters.

{quoted}

Same for any non-Enchanter that does...

"You need to reread the post"

:thinking:

  1. You DO realize that Locket/Redemption on a non-Enchanter will usually only have a 10% potency difference from an enchanter's use of the same items, given most games end when supports have vision, tier 2 boots, and about 2 full items, right? "It doesn't feel that strong on non-enchanters". More like you're blind. For every 100 hp shielded/healed, someone with Windspeaker's gets 10 more hp than someone without it. OH SHIT THE DIFFERENCE THOUGH!

  2. Here's my issue, "kiddo": You came out of nowhere to start a "discussion" that didn't need to be had because you're saying random nonsense that's contrary to, but doesn't refute, a single thing of what you originally responded. What random ass implication did you find yourself thinking I made when I said that people forget they CAN build something? Did I say they HAVE to? They SHOULD? They're SUPPOSED to? I said they CAN and don't, even when asked to. You come up saying "But they don't have heals and shields!" Who the hell cares what they have? The items are the shield/heal I'm asking for, and I'm asking for it for good reason. You came out of nowhere and started a back-and-forth that got nothing accomplished. Shoo. Shoo.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

"You need to reread the post"

:thinking:

  1. You DO realize that Locket/Redemption on a non-Enchanter will usually only have a 10% potency difference from an enchanter's use of the same items, given most games end when supports have vision, tier 2 boots, and about 2 full items, right?

This is false. Where are you getting the idea that it is only a 10% efficiency difference? Also, not every support is getting locket right after redemption. Even Mage Supports will often get Rylais before locket, as it ups their usefulness overall in a soloQ setting.

"It doesn't feel that strong on non-enchanters". More like you're blind.

Nice argument /s

"The problem isn't that it isn't its that you just dotn wanna believe"

Nice, lol.

For every 100 hp shielded/healed, someone with Windspeaker's gets 10 more hp than someone without it. OH SHIT THE DIFFERENCE THOUGH!

shields easily reach much higher than 100 HP even midgame. It isn't hard for Enchanters to get 300 or even 400 HP shields at this point in the game. Widspeakers plus the redemption Heal/shield Power makes 20%. Additionally, Windspeakers also gives bonus resistances, so it is much more damage mitigation that you are claiming, and applies to Locket, Redemption itself as well as their in kit healing and shielding, of which these shields are going to be on as low as a 5 second CD at this point in the game.

  1. Here's my issue, "kiddo": You came out of nowhere to start a "discussion" that didn't need to be had because you're saying random nonsense that's contrary to, but doesn't refute, a single thing of what you originally responded. What random ass implication did you find yourself thinking I made when I said that people forget they CAN build something? Did I say they HAVE to? They SHOULD? They're SUPPOSED to? I said they CAN and don't, even when asked to. You come up saying "But they don't have heals and shields!" Who the hell cares what they have? The items are the shield/heal I'm asking for, and I'm asking for it for good reason. You came out of nowhere and started a back-and-forth that got nothing accomplished. Shoo. Shoo.

"Oh no how dare someone disagree with me with actual arguments! There is no way what i am saying could be shortsighted I am always right everyone else is always wrong"

Christ i don't think ive met a more sad individual. Look, i don't mind conceding a point if actual arguments are presented to me, but if this is all you can muster than yea, im gonna call you immature and childish.

Anastaecia1 votes

It's not the items. It's the fact that jg got nerfed to slow the game down instead of these early ganks turning into snowballs. Slow games are better for sustain ("REAL") supports, hence they came to the front.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

I don't think the tank support items even need buffs. its just item 3107 and item 3190 . Locket isn't as bad imo since the shield decays. but redemtpion is just too flexible and convenient to not get first and in every game.

Every time I even dare buy something else, I end up tellign myself "if i got redemtpion instead I could have saved that guy across the map"

Imo, have its radius shortened significantly, and only have it return to its current radius upon death.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

And i never buy Face of the mountain (its probably me being bad) but the solo person shield just isn't worth it when i can get another tank item/support item. Id rather get .item 2303

Its not your fault. Its item 2049 's fault for beign forced on all supports. Tho i do personally feel that in item 3302 's case, item 3401 is the better buy between its upgrades.

SilentBomber1 votes

Brand and Malzahar are not supports though.They are mages that are played as supports. :)

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