Nidalee nerfs.. lets do this RIGHT

SwiftKitten88··2 votes·430 views

TLDR: don't balance a char around a bug Fix invisible spears BEFORE you nerf nidalee and if after that she is still op (with all new new cinderhulk junglers which counter her) then nerf her JUNGLE, not her laning i am a perfectly fine with nerfs to jungle nid AS LONG as they dont affect lane nid and come AFTER her invisible spear is fixed

/TLDR

when i first started play during season 3. traps were nice they had a very nice debuff to cut MR and armor they lasted 4 min and costs 80 mana lvl 1 traps did more damage than a max range spear at lvl 1 and were great for scouting and even as support nidalee they were effective

with the nid rework support nidalee became a lot harder with weaker spears and trap but traps were still ok the mana cost of traps was lowered to 40 but the duration was nerfed to 2 min

traps were also reworked to deal 20 damage +10% hp scaling with mr traps were still good for scouting but lost the 100% pick rate as nid first skill traps were also ok for "warding" bushes and and although the 10% hp didnt ever do much in lane it was enough to give you a few second notice of a gank if thier jungler stepped on a trap. 10% hp and procing hunted isn't much for a trap, but it was enough to keep your opponent from PURPOSELY stepping on them.

and now we have the most recent nerf to traps. which rioit claims is a nerf to her jungling but infact barely hurts her jungle and comp;letly guts her traps vs players

not only have they been changed back to flat damage like the orginal traps... but they deal HALF the damage, still last half as long and no longer give armor/ magic pen.

infact traps now deal less damage than the weakest auto attack in the game

no nidalee will EVER get more than 700 ap and even with that said 700 (which is only at lvl 18) nids traps will do a max of 340 damage

i understand that people really hate nidalee now but these traps nerf was 100% unnecessary

ALL riot needed to do was nerf the traps damage vs monsters (which was already capped at 150) to 50 or 40 or ZERO and it would have addressed her clear speed. without completely making traps worthless.

and now we get an HP nerf to nidalee which again barely effect her in the jungle becuase can can freaking kite all day long and shes can heal up what ever little damage she takes. where as laning nidalee losing 300 hp makes a big different to an already very squishy cc prone assassin. it also make it harder for nid to pounce in meaning she will need to throw more spears before she can go in.. again which has no effect on jungle nidalee.

and LAST and mostly importantly...

WHY.oh why is nidalee receiving ANY NERFS at all. you dont nerf a champ that is OP BECAUSE SHE IS BUGGED!!!! you FIX THE BUG and THEN see if she is still an issue.

revert the HP nerf revert the trap nerf and cap the damage vs monsters at 50 and FIX THE INVISIBLE SPEARS

and then AND THEN. after all the buffs to other junglers with cinderhulk (which btw ALL CONTER NID) THEN you decide if nidalee still needs a nerf jungle nerf.. and if she does.. you nerf her in the jungle in a way it donest affect her other 3 roles (top mid and support)

becuase nidalee top is already weak since the auto attack nerfs. support nidalee barely exists at all becuase the lack of cc. and mid nidalee isnt viable above plat becuase that at that point players are smart enough to stand behind creep and good enough at dodging spears that nid is better off maxing heal over spears for sustain while staring starting ad before building into late game ap.

i have NO problem with nerfs to jungle nidalee as long as they dont nerf her laning abilities AND they come AFTER and only if it has been established she is still an issue after the bug fix and the new influx of cinder-hulk junglers.

but to nerf nidalee laning abilities before fixing the invisible spear and all the while buffing every jungler that counters nid is a pretty BS move on riots part.

again im a perfectly fine with nerfs to jungle nid AS LONG as they dont affect lane nid and come after her invisible spear is fixed

7 Comments

Voluug131 votes

They should have removed that innecesary AS buff. Its out of place with the rest of her kit too. The heal is out of place in a poke/disengage champion too, but that is another can of worms.

Also, increase the CD of the heal.

Thats a good start to nerf Jungle Nidalee.

SwiftKitten881 votes

the attack speed buff is and the heal is the only thing keeping nidalee even remotely viable in a teamfight. and is one of her key abilties in top lane bruiser where she starts off ad maxing heal first before going ap late game. if you remove the heal you need to replace it with something... and sicne all human form nid skill that deal damage proc hunted it would meaning either giving nidalee a defensive ability (which would be out of placed because she needs defense when she goes in as a cougar NOT while she is in human form) or buy giving her another damaing ability and therefore another means to proc hunted. right now it nidalee still only has 1 way to proc hunted which is by landing a skillshot. changing that would likely be a bad idea

as for her kit right now the heal works because it keeps her with only 1 way to engage on you (by landing hard to hit skillshot) thereby giving her a lot of counterplay as she cant trade unless it hits. it it means when she doesn't go in in cougar form she is still very squishy and only gets a bonus if she survives the fight which if were were to replace heal with a defensive ability to cast before she goes in would help he be less squishy. that's why her heal fits her kit.. the attack speed was again is nice in teamfights and is good for taking down towers and good when she is support or for going bruiser in top lane where she maxes heal first.

the only other thing i can think you could replace heal with is a from of CC which im pretty sure would make everyone rage. so i think nid's heal is in a good place..

Sightless661 votes

Fix invisible spears BEFORE you nerf nidalee

Finding a way to fix it is taking a very, very long time. No guarantee it will be coming soon. They've been trying to fix it. They thought the fixed it twice in the past. Didn't work out. Could take months or longer to find the cause and fix it. Can't wait that long for balancing. Buff her if the eventual bugfix hurts that much. Until then, nerfs are justified.

Seriously though, bugfixes can take a very, very long time, particularly old bugs that they can't consistently reproduce. We have no idea what patch it started in so we don't know what specific change might have caused it, and we don't know everything that causes it to appear so we can't just test every patch to find out. This is made even more difficult by the shoddy code base. It's more complicated than you give it credit for. She can't be exempt from balance for the indefinite period of time that fix might take.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

Finding a way to fix it is taking a very, very long time. No guarantee it will be coming soon. They've been trying to fix it. They thought the fixed it twice in the past. Didn't work out. Could take months or longer to find the cause and fix it. Can't wait that long for balancing. Buff her if the eventual bugfix hurts that much. Until then, nerfs are justified.

Seriously though, bugfixes can take a very, very long time, particularly old bugs that they can't consistently reproduce. We have no idea what patch it started in so we don't know what specific change might have caused it, and we don't know everything that causes it to appear so we can't just test every patch to find out. This is made even more difficult by the shoddy code base. It's more complicated than you give it credit for. She can't be exempt from balance for the indefinite period of time that fix might take.

i know exactly how complex bugs can be to find. but i also know that nidalee isn't op and never was. while i dont have anything against bandaid fixes. nidalee really was never the issue. it was the players facing nidalee who have never seen nidalee jungle before and dont know how to adjust thier playstyle to compensate. this is amplified by the bug, yes. but the issue still remains that until people learn how to face nid she is still going to beat them.

lets look at the "bandaid" fixes rito did... the nerfed her traps into the point of obsolence, and what did this do? almost nothing.. becuase traps hardly ever made that much of a difference anyways. did it fix her jungling? idk maybe it did.. but we could have done the same thing by lowering the 150 damage cap to 50.

so even if it DID fix the jungling issue it STILL needs to be reverted and then changed so it donest affect her traps vs player.

now the most recent nerf.. her hp what did this do? well it made it so she is squishier.. well guess what? she was ALREADY squishy, she ALREADY has a heal vs player this hurts a lot because vs players you even squisher.

what does this do vs jungle? NOTHING!!! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!! it donest matetr if nid has 200 hp remianing after a fight vs a jungle mob or she has 170 hp remaining either way she is going to heal, the jungler mobs are not going to burst her down. she can kite them all day. so again this nerf hurts her vs players.

even if junlge nid WAS op. the nerfs she got did NOTHING to fix that and w/e good they did too hurt laning nidalee about 5x worse.

in the mean time riot diced to buff every jungler that counters nid despite the fact that all the jungler that are normally played already do just that. thier team has a jungle nid? ANY bruiser will beat her. ANY of them, nidalee cant do jack shit vs tanks. her onyl remolte viable thing vs tanks was the % damge from traps which was never very effetivly becuase they need to step on them and anyone who isnt in bronze knows how to not step on them, now even thats removed.

nidalee jungle has very good ganks if she can land a spear. but she bring no CC to the fight, no tankyness. she prevents her mid lane from ever having blue buff becuase she can neverf give it up, and pretty much forced her top or support teammates to go tanky with cc. if her spears misses her gank did ZERO damage as opposed to most other junglers at least hurting the opponent. nidlee bring nothing into the jugnle that any other jungler doesn't already do.

people need to adapt. they need to counterpick. they needs to learn how to face nid.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

RIot has shown that they cannot fix the bug in a timely manner and nid absolutely needs bandaid nerfs while riot works on fixing the invisible spears.

i would be fine with a temporary bandaid nerf it it didnt also hurt her laning so much. that trap nerf was unnecessary as i pointed out and could have easily been fixed byt lowering the cap from 150 to 50 not be reworking the skill to make it worthless vs players. and the HP nerf has the same issue. it hurts laning nid more than jungle nid. if your going to so a tempoary bandaid nerf before you can figure out how to solve the bug fine but TELL US its a temporary nerf. and put the bandaid on the right spot.

if your going to amputate a limb, make bloody sure its the right one...

SwiftKitten881 votes

not sure what to think if the lack of other responses. i have a feeling people want to disagree with me because they think nid is op but came come up with a valid argument... but then again, not having a valid argument really never stopped anyone before, so i still dont know. Edit: or it could possibly be i didn't refresh the page ... oops XD

one of the issues is that people have to get over is the fact that nidalee kit DOES work well in the jungle. but it also has drawbacks i main mid nidalee and i tried out jungle nidalee and i really don't like it that much.

first off jungle nidalee while she has good ganking potential is VERY mana dependant. much more so than laning nidalee as jungle nid actaulyl DOES throw spears at junlge mobs on cooldown (becuase jungle mobs dont stand behind creep, and only the scute bug dodges them, damn bug jukes...)

this means nid will ALWAYS need her own blue which means her mid laner wont ever get it.

the 2nd huge downside to jungle nid is her ganks itself. nidalee's ganking potion come alot from the element of suprise. if she lands that first spear she can do tremendous damage and the gank will almost always bee sucessful. but there is also a huge downside. if she DOESNT land that spear her gank did effectively ZERO damage.granted it proably made made whoever she was ganking sh*t themselves... but the gank did nothing. and as soon as you know nid is there all you need to do is stand behind creep. most other jungler bring some form of cc and can initiate a fight and deal at least some damage possibly forcing a back even fi they gank doesn't get a kills.

junle nidalee is also still an assasin meaning it forces your tam comp to have a tank support and top lane, and be cuase she needs blue its good to have a manaless mid. now if your in a premade ranked teams then this may not be a downside at all depending what your team plays. but in solo que it can be a huge downside if top and support dont play tanks and your team end up with no one who can tank.

overall jungle nidalee is pretty easily countered by wards. more so than other jungler as long as she isnt a surprise you always have time to stand behind creep and negate her gank.

that isnt to say she isn't strong, she has ganking potential at lvl 2 if she really want to and if you dont see her coming and if that spear end up landing she can scale pretty fast. but that being said she isn't wihtout weaknesses.

overall nidalee cant really do much to tanks. prevoiusly her traps coudl take away 10% of a tank's hp but that still didnt amount to very much until very late game where it did like 20% which at that point was noticeable damage becuase that that point 20% is almost 400 damage in most champs and could even be useful vs a tank if you could somehow get them to step on it

while i dont think jungle need necessarily needs a nerf even if she did it would have to be to her clear speed ( i dont normally get enemy nids in my ranked games seeing as i picked nidalee mid) i would think that most of the issue people have with her is her lvl 2 gank . because nidalee lvl 2 and 3 has a HUGE powerspike. and if you can gank before they get a ward up it could end up going very badly for them.

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