@riot Diana has a 45% winrate?

Zerenza·May 19, 2017·36 votes·2,316 views

Okay so apparently the update to Abyssal scepter hurt her A LOT more than it should have, i believe her winrate was 50-51% not to long ago but now it's absolutely Abyssmal.

I'm also pretty sure she hasn't recieved any nerfs recently so yeah, maybe buff her a little because something is definitely not right.

Edit: I used league of graphs, Op.GG and Champion.GG to make sure, it goes up in bronze to a wopping 48% according to league of graphs.

The thing is though, why did it drop so atrociously low with no nerfs to her?

63 Comments

AccountaBilabudyMay 19, 201719 votes

Abyssal change + the new Banshee's really fucks her.

GULAG 4 UMay 19, 20173 votes

She had a shitty winrate before the item changes.

ZerenzaMay 19, 20171 votes

From 7.5 it's only gotten worse.

Ganked By TiltMay 19, 20179 votes

Not only abyssal but she got quite worse after mage update when they updated all items. Old zhonyas was great on her because it gave 120 ap and the active, now it gives less ap and most ap items give lower ap so she cant get to 800 ap easily and thats when diana shines imo, because of her stupidly high ratios. Healing and shield supports are also strong right now denying Diana doing her job so she cant blow someone up and zhonyas or even trade soeone with her life she just stands there and dies if she tries to go in. Items like banshees and GA make it harder for her to all in or kill her high priority target also ;/

SlampieceHawkeMay 19, 20171 votes

Current Zhonyas is still good with the build I role with (see above) The CDR it gives is beneficial and when you're building item 3027 item 3135 , then you can maintain good enough dmg and be tanky enough to survive/do well in team fights with ur zhonyas active.

Sexy Jack RabbitMay 20, 20171 votes

The problem is that item 3027 fucking sucks though and no one wants to build it.

SlampieceHawkeMay 20, 20171 votes

TP can help mitigate your early game is you're rushing this. I hear you though

Votable JesterMay 19, 20178 votes

I honestly don't care because I hate playing against her (that's true for a lot of champs though), but you did put in a decent, if obvious pun. Therefore you get an upvote :3

Okay so apparently the update to Abyssal scepter hurt her A LOT more than it should have, i believe her winrate was 50-51% not to long ago but now it's absolutely Abyssmal.

Baron of BreadMay 19, 20177 votes

In addition to what everyone else is saying, everybody now has scaling magic resist with the mid-year update.

DreadlocksMay 19, 20173 votes

Niche pick mid.

ZerenzaMay 19, 20172 votes

I don't think i'd call her a niche pick, a couple other assassins and mages are but diana? There are a couple generally good Assassins in mid lane and i'd say she's one of them.

DreadlocksMay 19, 20171 votes

Shes not rly classified as an assassin

An Undead bratMay 19, 20171 votes

She always was played like one tho - I don't say it's good, I'd like her to be played more like the fighter she's supposed to be

ZerenzaMay 19, 20171 votes

Same, but her kit doesn't support it and never did. The only part of her kit that does is her Passive and arguably her W, other than that she's got everything an assassin wants and if you wanted to go play her as a fighter now, chances are it wouldn't actually work.

An Undead bratMay 19, 20171 votes

I actually played her with builds that included every one of these: item 3124 item 3078 item 3146 combined with ~2 tank items, it was pretty fun, but I got fed everytime early on so I'm not sure if it actualy is a viable strategy...

Gosh DarnMay 19, 20171 votes

Problem is, anything but an assassin build is massively outclassed by Jax, that's what keeps her builds from having any variety. Want to use those items you mentioned? Jax will do more damage and have crazy tankiness with R.

An Undead bratMay 19, 20171 votes

Bleh, Jax is a purple poop, Diana is cool!

TormentulaMay 19, 20178 votes

I'd say she's very niche. She doesn't counter much and gets countered by a lot, and every reason you play her for besides being a main, (waveclear mid, strong roams, mobility, burst) is done infinitely better by other champions; like ahri and kat which play the same role as AP carry assassins but do it better and have a fighting chance pre-6.

Diana has an identity issue nowadays, she's either overtuned to the point she's worth picking over the other champions, or she's just average and falls flat to being picked over ahri, ekko, kat, fizz, and LB. Even her matchups are way more frustrating for diana since she can't do much pre-6 while other mid laners can way easier, and even at 6 other mids still have a powerspike that counters hers.

IMO she needs a rek'sai/kindred level update. She has needed it for awhile, I think she was a decent pick in season 6 jungle when runic echoes was hype, but since then I haven't really seen a diana unless they were a diana main and even I don't find motivation to play her in most matchups dispite personally liking the champion. I see them do well, but experience > actual champion state.

ZerenzaMay 19, 20172 votes

I really like diana, your right on all fronts, i don't find her very niche but i'd say she's a worse Ahri, in that sense i mean that Ahri is a generalist, generally ahri is very good at everything, diana is good at everything to but no where near as good as ahri. Meaning that Diana is a generalist but not a very good one, and she probably could use a small update. Though i'm not sure exactly what they would change about her, if they turned her into a Fighter and turned Moonfall into the high damage ultimate it was during her creation process then maybe that would help considering we don't really have an AP fighter. Though AP Fighter's have a hard time existing due to lack of itemization geared towards them.

And yes it's mostly mains that are playing her, her 45% winrate in platinum and above is along side a 1% playrate which is most likely by mains.

TormentulaMay 19, 20171 votes

IMO a change they could try,

Is if diana's hits her Q, it resets her ult cooldown rather than her ult reseting if she recently ulted somebody hit by Q (marked). This would give diana players more options such as ulting for an easier Q to followup ganks or actually be able to commit to her own roams once she's there (you miss Q while roaming you might as well go back mid). Diana isn't like ahri or ekko where they can still continue a fight if they miss one part of their kit, if diana misses her most vital part its very devestating, and even if she does land it, is that the one you follow up with?

Additionally they could buff the shield ratios on her W to make her survive diving into fights (which would make her tankier than ahri, differing her playstyle from both being one shots, to diana being a mid laner all-in diver while ahri is a ranged mage assassin.). Buffing W ratios would double up as a revival to jungle diana who struggles in the new jungle.

ZerenzaMay 19, 20171 votes

In order to buff her shield they would have to reduce damage because if not she'd be similar to tank ekko and fizz, slipper and deals lots of damage while being really tanky.

Though i do think it's worth trying to reset her ult with her Q instead of the other way around, her Q cooldown is pretty high(i believe 8 seconds max rank?) and having that reset her R would allow for buffs considering it would be an overall nerf to her stick ability as an assassin. Though i really want them to attempt turning her into a fighter and making her ultimate how was going to be during her conception(it was moonfall just on steroids and it was soooooc oool.)

SlampieceHawkeMay 19, 20171 votes

I'd agree on the niche thing when it comes to matchups. You do get those matchups where you're clinging to life till 6 quite often. That's why I bring TP rather than ignite most of the time. You can get to lane/fights/ganks quicker with it and catch up on kills/CS. To further expand on why I think TP is great on her, I don't see her as Niche when it comes to the smashing objectives side of the game. If you're rocking a Nashors in your build with TP, then you can really down objectives very fast. (see above in this thread if you want to see the full example build)

I've seen a game with ArcSecond/imaqtpie where he literally Q+R's to a squishy, R's to a further enemy minion, and proceeds to bash towers and inhibs. His judgement was on point as his team did win that team fight despite him dipping out early like that, but that's what Diana is all about, Judgement, seeing as she can't escape if her flash is down and theres no enemy minion to R to.

Daddy AntsMay 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't think i'd call her a niche pick, a couple other assassins and mages are but diana? There are a couple generally good Assassins in mid lane and i'd say she's one of them.

Diana is not an assassin.

Diana – Scorn of the Moon

ROLE(S) Fighter, Secondary: Mage

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Diana

She's considered a Diver by Riot.

ZerenzaMay 19, 20173 votes

Let me ask you something though, is she build like a diver or an assassin? Does she play like a diver or an Assassin? The answer to both is assassin, she might not have been built to be one but riot has so far balanced her to be one since her release. This coincides with her playstyle and build path being nothing like a Diver such as Pantheon or Renekton, not because their AD but because they build semi-tanky after damage, Diana builds full damage and while yes she can "Dive" people, any assassin can, what makes them different is how they do it and how they build. Diana is an assassin, regardless of what she was built for originally, she's an assassin.

JaxMoonStealerMay 19, 20171 votes

I don't play much Diana, but how would you feel if she was reworked into a Diver, kind of like a magical Vi/Camille? Riot could make her tankier and focus on giving her more sustained damage instead of burst. She could even keep all of her abilities, but just shift some numbers/effects around like they did with Kindred and Rammus.

ZerenzaMay 19, 20171 votes

Honestly wouldn't mind and i'd probably main her still.

FrightningMay 20, 20171 votes

She used to be tagged as Fighter, Assassin, Mage in that order. Back in those days, the Mage tag was pretty much a catch all for champions that scaled heavily with AP and were intended to build AP in quantity. So in more archetype based terms, so is a hybrid of a fighter and an assassin, which makes sense when you compare her to some other champions that are hybrid fighter assassins: Irelia and Akali . They all have: a targeted gap closer, some method of either sustaining themselves or mitigating damage, built in damage steroids, innate tankyness, good offensive scalings, and are melee champions.

Ganked By TiltMay 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

She used to be tagged as Fighter, Assassin, Mage in that order. Back in those days, the Mage tag was pretty much a catch all for champions that scaled heavily with AP and were intended to build AP in quantity. So in more archetype based terms, so is a hybrid of a fighter and an assassin, which makes sense when you compare her to some other champions that are hybrid fighter assassins: and . They all have: a targeted gap closer, some method of either sustaining themselves or mitigating damage, built in damage steroids, innate tankyness, good offensive scalings, and are melee champions.

Exactly she's nothing like a mage, her Q is the only ranged ability she has , the other skills are fighter/assassin like.

Succubús GFMay 19, 20172 votes

Upvoting because she's literally garbage right now. Her power spike is fine but she is not nearly strong as she used to be. I cant even remember a time where diana was actually popular. Id love to see her get a VGU to push her into an assassin slot or in a fighter/diver slot respectively.

TormentulaMay 19, 20171 votes

She doesn't need a VGU

A minirework? Would help her.

A class update rework? Yep but more often than not that turns out bad.

But a VGU is a visual and gameplay update, basically what galio, taric, yorick, etc got.

ZerenzaMay 19, 20171 votes

Yeah i agree, a mini-rework would be nice, maybe they could actually turn her into the fighter she was intended to be, i wouldn't complain at all if they did but if they pushed her finally into a distinct assassin that would be great to.

Succubús GFMay 19, 20171 votes

Sorry im super dumb and thought mini rework and vgu were the same thing x.x I agree with amini rework

SinofAtlasMay 19, 20172 votes

[deleted]

MobezMay 19, 20175 votes

Yeah that's why she has a 1% playrate because everyone is playing her

ZerenzaMay 19, 20173 votes

Agreed,

SlampieceHawkeMay 19, 20172 votes

I agree that she could use a tiny bit of love at least.

In the meantime, try this build in lane which is abysmal-less, tested by ArcSecond and how I build her:

item 3027 item 3115 item 3157 item 3135 item 3089 For boots, variable regarding comp/matchup, but usually mercs or lucidity.

FrightningMay 20, 20171 votes

This is a pretty well rounded build, but depending on how your game is going, and how you play the mid-game onward, you can probably get more milage out a more specialized build. I don't entirely like item 3027 on her because of it's 'must rush or not get at all' nature due to the delayed stats. I understand the rationale is to get some much needed tank stats, but I find you can often get away with just item 3157 if you need a way to avoid dying fast. She's almost never good in teamfights, only when you have strong initiation is she good, and even then, only if you actually catch an enemy backliner with that engage (Diana followup burst for the kill). Otherwise, you usually better off split-pushing and looking to get picks with your allies on out of position enemies. With that in mind, I think one of the following build paths may work out better for you:

Splitpush/Dueling: item 3115 + item 3006 +(situational items: item 3100 , item 3089 , or item 3157 )+ item 3135 (5th or 6th depending on enemy MR levels and who is trying to stop your splitpushing)

Burst (more pick oriented, can still splitpush when opportunity arises): item 3285 + item 3020 + item 3100 + item 3089 +(situational items: item 3157 , item 3135 , or item 3102 )

Sadistic VeigarMay 19, 20172 votes

Watch S2 Diana NA

She's fine

Ganked By TiltMay 19, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sadistic Veigar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZBVlqZyc,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2017-05-19T21:38:44.957+0000)

Watch S2 Diana NA

She's fine

She's not fine just because one OTP is doing well on her -__- the same thing can be said about weak champions as urgot and Corki...

2Charmnot2CharmMay 20, 20172 votes

The thing is though, why did it drop so atrociously low with no nerfs to her?

Other than abyssal being changed i bet it doesn't help that every ap mid is going to be building banshee veil now thanks to riot making it have decent stats mid laners would want while the passive is a bonus [zombie-brand-facepalm]

GJ riot

LeetriMay 20, 20172 votes

Viktor Welcome to the club. The Rylai's and Ghost nerfs brought him down from 50-51% to 45% and he's been left there ever since. "Not balanced around Rylai's" my ass. Right now it's virtually impossible to hit anyone with the 2nd part of his E unless they're dumb or your team has a lot of CC. Hopefully he'll get a little buff when he gets his new skin this year so he can get back to the 50% mark.

SweedishGunnerMay 19, 20171 votes

Viktor has been sitting around 46% for 5 or more patches now. I don't see any threads about him.

Maybe see how she is in a patch or so, then ask for changes?

SlampieceHawkeMay 19, 20175 votes

if you're gonna throw salt at Diana players (which I think typically has a lower playrate than vik), then I'm just going to throw out there that vik had a generous amount of time being in the spotlight/being a very strong champ.

Yeah, we all know Diana was a monster on release, that's a typical riot past-time

SweedishGunnerMay 20, 20171 votes

I'm not throwing salt at Diana players. I didn't mean to dis the champion or the players, just that we should sit back for a patch or so and see what happens with the winrate and see exactly why Diana is struggling.

Viktor might have a 46% winrate but as a Viktor main I can tell you he isn't weak. And that's what I mean by what I said, I'll leave the real discussion to the Diana players but we shouldn't jump to conclusions too quick.

FrightningMay 20, 20171 votes

She's been on the weak side for a long time. She's not unviable, I've had no shortage of successes on her, but I definitely have had games where I've been unable to convert my advantage from playing early-mid game well into a win, where, as many other meta champs that serve a similar role, I could have. Also, she pretty much has to build either full-burst assassin or full-DPS...here actual AP fighter builds are all crap because AP fighter itemization is crap (and her kit doesn't support that kind of build path well enough too).

aqours fanboyMay 20, 20171 votes

I would love some kind of buff (maybe in the mana department) but overall I don't think she's in a shit place, the meta just currently isn't the best for her. Mobile assassins means hitting your Q is harder, and since Diana has one telegraphed move...well you get read like a book most the time.

RengoooMay 20, 20171 votes

What she needs is the rework they have talked about :p

GixiaMay 20, 20171 votes

Diana just flat out needs a kit update. She has the kit of a diver, but because people insist on trying to play her like an assassin, Riot's tried to appease everybody by balancing her for both roles, which has only made her bad at both of them. She was reliant on Abyssal Scepter because it's one of the few items that gave her the combination of damage and tankiness that her current mess of a kit requires to function, and Banshee's Veil doesn't give as much damage since it lacks the damage oriented aura so it's not as effective on her.

FrightningMay 20, 20171 votes

I would like to see her get some minor buffs, she's actually pretty close to on-target despite her mediocre win rate, and you don't want her being too good, because she's a total nightmare when she's actually strong (I still remember 60% win rate release Diana; shudders). What I think would help most would be adjusting her W shield to scale less with AP, but also some with bonus health. This would reward more fighter style builds with additional tankyness without making assassin builds overly oppressive (i.e. they don't get too much free tankyness). Other than this, the best thing that would help her would be for riot to actually make some proper AP fighter items, Rylai's is too slot inefficient imo, and could use more health (and high gold cost to justify it). I would be quite happy to see a 400-500 hp, 70 AP Rylai's. 70 AP or maybe even nerfed to 60 AP would keep most mages from abusing it, or at the very least give it a meaningful opportunity cost compared to things like Luden's Echo and such. I've also noticed that most of the items Diana likes don't have CDR, so that creates a big problem for her because she really needs CDR to be good. I've taken to building a more splitpush/dueling oriented buildpath on her partly to fix that. It's item 3115 + item 3006 + item 3100 , in case you were wondering, often I get item 3157 later on too, so that's actually 40% CDR, but there's little room for tank stats with a build like that, and if you do get some tankyness, you are giving up things like item 3089 and/or item 3135 because you simply don't have the slots for them. Diana does miss the old item 3001 passive, but otherwise the new item 3102 is quite a good AP/MR item for her.

DoraTheAsymptoteMay 22, 20171 votes

The problem with Diana is that her kit is inconsistent. Half of it wants her to play as a fighter half of it as an assasin. ADiana=Assasin FDiana=Fighter

With ADiana your passive hits hard but is not going to be used oftenly and your E is pretty lackluster. You use your combo and if you cant R back to a minion you only have the shield of W adquired during burst and the E that pull in potential CC into you instead of helping you scape. No flash=Dead. For ADiana passive could be tuned but the main thing that she need is a change on E. 2 posible changes: 1) Turn it into a spell that provides you a scape. 2) Instead of pulling enemies in knock back enemies that havent been afected by Lunar Rush/Moonlight (first option disrupt enemy team while isolating target, second one is more fair as hitting multiple targets means having to deal with more enemies) in the last 'x' seconds. I really like the second option just saying.

FDiana you are looking for long battles were the sustained dmg of your passive melts peoople the main problem is if you are going for a bruiser kit focused in attack speed is that the rest of your kit deals mediocre dmg and your survavility isnt quite good. For FDiana a % hp dmg or an AS steroid would make wonders also her chase capabilities should be increased. A good approach for FDiana would be: Passive- Unchanged Q- Moonlight debuff doesnt reset Lunar Rush instead provides FDiana AS and current % health dmg for 'x' second W- (Passive)'Moon Desire' Dianas AA afflicts target with the influence of the moon reducing their sight to a maximun of 'x' units after 'x' AA (graves like blind) (Active) 'Lunar Attraction' targets with maximun 'Lunar Desire' stacks recive x% maximun heatlh as magic dmg and are pulled into FDiana, FDiana heals for x% of dmg dealt. If targets dont have maximun stacks they recieve flat magic dmg and are slowed for 'x' seconds. E-'Lunar Rush' R-'Moonfall' high range pull directly+silence if they are affected by 'Moonlight' or 'Lunar Desire' if not attracted to the center(increase mov if going to the center, reduces movility if going to the opposite direction)

I really love Diana, the lore , the style, the abilities... but she is really outdated and the 'Scorn of the Moon' playstyle isnt quite represented in the champion, being the 'incarnation' of the moon the pull and attract capacities of the celestial body arent quite there.