Wow, autofill really shortens Q times and makes the game balanced!

option paralysis··83 votes·3,467 views

I didn't play ranked for a month, because I'm tilted from autofilled losses. Today, I wanted to try again, 3 times someone dodges in champ select right before the game should've started. Sooo, I've spent declaring my champ, banning champs, choosing my champ, choosing runes/masteries 3 fucking times and I'm still not in a game, because someone got autofilled and dodged at the last second. I got fucking tilted again without even getting into the game!!! I won't even try anymore, I know I'm gonna wait like 2 more times in champ selects, then I'm gonna finally get into a game after waiting for 30 mins, just to see my team getting buttfucked and losing 10 mins into the game.

200 Comments

HalcyonDweller30 votes

The system needs to punish players for trying to force others to dodge by holding their team hostage with troll picks or role-stealing.

Project omen1 votes

How exactly are you going to prove anything if you want to report someone who does that? If someone dodges, then technically the game never happened.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

This would require a new AI to monitor champion select. It could identify the assignments players were given and monitor chat for common phrases used by players threatening to troll or steam a role. The punishment could be a forced queue dodge on the offending player, and they could be put into a low priority queue the next time they queue up.

rtbf761092712 votes

At very least the chat logs from champ select need to be saved, and there needs to be a way to report after a failed lobby.

A "leavebuster" for autofill would probably be SUPER involved algorithmically as far as correctly punishing people goes. Not nearly as simple as "no input for x time = leave busted" and "no incoming / outgoing damage for x time = leavebusted"

Troll for Trump3 votes

If you force someone to play who doesn't want to be on the same team as you, it's not gonna work out.

It's like group projects.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

It's not forcing them to play on the team. If they can't compose themselves like a mature person and deal with auto-fill like the rest of us, if they are willing to throw tantrums and ruin other people's fun, then they deserve to be removed from matchmaking and forced to wait.

Troll for Trump3 votes

It's not just because of autofill, people want to dodge for many reasons.

5 AD teams for instance.

Or something really, really, off-meta.

You could "just stick with it" and enter the game with an already decreased chance of winning, or you can dodge and try to get a better game.

If you're in promos, have too many dodge penalties, or don't have enough time to spare to wait for another game, it's perfectly reasonable for the hostage situation. So long as it's not taken too far to the extremes, thogh

HalcyonDweller2 votes

And when people dodge for those reasons such as 5AD teams or whatever at the end of champion select that is fine.

Whoah hold up now, are you arguing that it is actually OK in certain circumstances to try to force somebody else to dodge in your place when you don't want to incur the penalties for doing so?

So when a kid steals from the cookie jar is it also OK for them to blame it on the sibling, cousin or dog?

Troll for Trump1 votes

That analogy doesn't work, and, yes, it's fine if you have to. I can't dodge in promos without losing the promo watch because of the way the system works.

Yes, I'm going to try to make someone dodge so I don't autolose with the 5 AD team vs Malphite and rammus

HalcyonDweller3 votes

The analogy does work, because you want someone else to take the fall for you and save you from a consequence. That's not how the game works. It is unfair to expect someone else to dodge and give up LP just so you can avoid the same consequences.

If you don't want an all AD team in this hypothetical situation, then you should have communicated with your teammates during champion select. Having the skills to communicate and cooperate effectively with others is just as important for climbing as being skilled at playing the game.

Picks, bans, team comp and counterpicks are as much a part of climbing in ranked as playing the actual match. If you can't communicate with your team to accomplish your goals within those constraints then that is your problem, not the system's.

Losing a promo just puts you back near the top of LP, it only takes a win or two to make up for it and get back into promos. Promos are best of 3 aren't they? So you should be able to play your best, win or lose, and then just play the next game. You might even win if you build correctly and out-play your opponents.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

This is the only reliable way to get that.

If you blame the system less and focus on what you can do before picks are locked in then you will learn how to prevent the situation in the first place and you will be able to climb faster and with less stress. I'm arguing it's not the way in the first place because it's wrong to do.

{quoted}

No. I don't start shenanigans, and I told you. I don't dodge every match. They start the shenanigans, and they get the responsibility of dodging. If they don't dodge, and I get a loss for it, the only one escaping from consequences is them.

OK, retaliating against shenanigans is just as bad. If they behave poorly just mute them and report after the match. You never have to see them again. Just because they behave poorly does not give you a right to do the same.

Don't portray the other 4 people as saints and me as the devil; that's what you're doing.

I don't think you are a 'devil,' but I do think you act like one when you hold teammates hostage to make them dodge. You shouldn't do that. It's a devil thing to do. I believe the saying goes, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

It's not running from the problems. It solves the problem. The problem is that I'm getting a loss.

You are literally trying to manipulate your teammates into dodging so you don't have to. That's very nearly the definition of running away from problems, or running from consequences at least.

The solution is to win or get in another queue.

Your 'solution' is to act like a child and abuse your teammates until they dodge. That isn't a solution, it's called being toxic.

Troll for Trump1 votes

No, the solution is the ideal one for climbing.

You want to climb and not waste time?

Then do it.

As I mentioned in my earlier responses, I've already tried working with the team and all that.

The "blackmail and make someone else dodge" is a last resort.

I've tried getting people untilted, calming them down, etc.

If there's no way to fix the situation, gotta make someone else dodge

HalcyonDweller2 votes

Any toxic action, no matter how desperate the circumstances, is unacceptable.

Troll for Trump1 votes

The very repression of "toxic behavior" is toxic itself.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

There are healthy ways to deal with stress. Taking it out on others is not one of those ways.

Troll for Trump1 votes

I couldn't find the last comment :T

The driver +pedestrian analysis doesn't work, because: *

  • The driver isn't trying to gain anything by killing people
  • The team is only one person, when it should be many

It isn't right for the other people to be dragged into it. However, because it's a team game, it's the best choice to get the highest winrate, and lowest climbing time.

I won't int, or troll, because the system won't let me do that.

I will do anything else that's possible that won't be punished by the system to optimize my winrate, regardless of that.

If there were 3 people that genuinely wanted to play, they wouldn't genuinely be wanting to play with the one/two players that would ruin the game. If they did, they wouldn't be genuinely wanting to play.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Moved up here because we ran out of reply space.

{quoted}

No, it's a fact. There are added consequences for it. You can't refute a fact by saying "it's not a fact."

Increased consequences =/= inability to make the choice. Stop trying to equate these two things. They are not the same. The added consequences are a fact, but the inability to make the choice is not the immutable truth. It's your opinion that in promos you are unable to do that. It is not a fact, it is an opinion. And telling me I can't call it an opinion to make it not a fact is irrelevant because it is not a fact in the first place.

And players that don't want to play in a match when they aren't in promos should dodge.

Fixed again. Opinions still don't belong in facts.

They should change the ruling, but they never will due to abusers. So many things that would benefit the community aren't allowed to pass because of abusers.

If you aren't willing to put the thought and time into discussing it with Riot then that is your own fault and problem. Not theirs.

Off the top of my head, I would imagine you could ask for one free dodge during Promos. That way if something terrible happened you could dodge once, but players couldn't easily abuse it to climb.

But they don't know it, and I don't outright state it. By picking Urgot, they just happen to not want to play. As far as the system and everyone else can see, it's just an off-meta pick of Urgot ADC/Top/Mid, or Darius jgl, or whatever. Them dodging is entirely of their own accord, from their perspectives.

So? What is there that's being done wrong? Nothing. I'm picking something offmeta, Urgot being an example. I won't troll if the game starts. They don't know I'm trying to get them to dodge with an Urgot pick. The system can't pick it up, because I'm not saying anything or threatening anyone.

It's just an Urgot pick, that just happened to coincide with there being a troll/int/ etc. in the room. No one knows that I'm making them dodge. It doesn't work, and it's not wrong, because I'm objectively not doing anything wrong.

tldr version: "The system can't tell that I'm doing anything wrong, and the players might or might not know. So it's not doing anything wrong." That doesn't make it ok. If I were to find a way to evade taxes without getting caught, it would not become ok just because the system couldn't tell I was doing it. You're still making somebody else pay a price because you don't want to. (Yeah I get it, the prices are different. That's not the point of this paragraph though.)

What you're saying is "you can't pick Urgot in ranked when there is a troll/int/etc. in the room," which there's nothing wrong with.

That is not what I said. And you know it. Don't put words in my mouth.

If you can't see that it's not what I said then go read my comment again more carefully.

It isn't trolling. It's not deliberately offending or forcing them to do anything. It's just picking Urgot.

You're seeing an animus that isn't there for anyone else.

Animus is what makes it trolling.

By animus do you mean animosity?

But how in all is that relevant. It's an online game, that punishes for online trolling. No one cares about what you're doing in real life, as long as you don't take it on in game.

You're still missing the point. Trolling can happen in game but it can also happen in pre or post game lobbies and champion select. This is something you do through the game client. And it affects other players negatively. Just because it is less visible in some of those places does not make it ok.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Increased consequences =/= inability to make the choice. Stop trying to equate these two things. They are not the same. The added consequences are a fact, but the inability to make the choice is not the immutable truth. It's your opinion that in promos you are unable to do that. It is not a fact, it is an opinion. And telling me I can't call it an opinion to make it not a fact is irrelevant because it is not a fact in the first place.

No, it IS an inability because of that increased consequence. It's not just an increased consequence. In this case, they are the same. You can't dodge, because the purpose of dodging is to avoid a loss. If the consequence for dodging is a loss, you cannot dodge, because there is no purpose. You are not able to dodge, and that is the fact. Not an opinion.

If you aren't willing to put the thought and time into discussing it with Riot then that is your own fault and problem. Not theirs.

Off the top of my head, I would imagine you could ask for one free dodge during Promos. That way if something terrible happened you could dodge once, but players couldn't easily abuse it to climb.

There's no point in discussing something that:

  1. Has likely been discussed before
  2. Riot likely won't reply or care
  3. Has a irrefutable counterargument that's found in almost all suggestions: "There are possible abuse cases"

Hence, the should. It won't happen because of "possible abuse cases."

tldr version: "The system can't tell that I'm doing anything wrong, and the players might or might not know. So it's not doing anything wrong." That doesn't make it ok. If I were to find a way to evade taxes without getting caught, it would not become ok just because the system couldn't tell I was doing it. You're still making somebody else pay a price because you don't want to. (Yeah I get it, the prices are different. That's not the point of this paragraph though.)

There is no may or may not. They have absolutely no way of knowing, unless they can somehow read my mind through the screen. Taxes don't work as an example, because taxes don't involve a "team." If you dodge taxes, someone will get you, but they won't increase taxes for other people, or something like that.

Point being, bad analogy.

I'm not making them do anything.

I'm picking Urgot, and there's also a troll/inter on the team.

They don't want to play with two "useless players" in a 5v5 game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what I'm doing from the perspective of the players and Riot. Anyone that can't read my thoughts, or are discussing it in this comment chain.

That is not what I said. And you know it. Don't put words in my mouth.

If you can't see that it's not what I said then go read my comment again more carefully.

That is what you're saying. I can't pick Urgot. While HERE, where I openly say I'm doing it to hopefully get a dodge out of someone else, no one can tell that in-game; for them, I am picking Urgot just to play an offmeta pick. A offmeta pick that they do not like.

By animus do you mean animosity?

Synonyms, yes

You're still missing the point. Trolling can happen in game but it can also happen in pre or post game lobbies and champion select. This is something you do through the game client. And it affects other players negatively. Just because it is less visible in some of those places does not make it ok.

The pre-game and post-game lobbies are part of the game.

I'm saying I'm literally not doing anything wrong to these people by picking Urgot. They don't know why I'm picking Urgot, they just know it's an offmeta pick. They also know that there is a troll/int on the team. They don't know that the troll/int. has to do with the Urgot pick. They identify them as two separate people. For all they know, I could very well be an Urgot one-trick pony. But they don't want to play with a troll/int, and an Urgot on their team. So, they dodge. It doesn't affect the players negatively.

That would be the same as saying that picking any off-meta pick would affect players negatively.

Because to them, that's all that I am doing.

It's easier to show than to type it out.

If you're in a ranked game, and see a Darius jungle, what do you think the person on your team, in promos, will respond with?

Most likely, something along the lines of "pls no, I'm in promos."

What are you going to do when they lock in Darius jgl?

What can they do?

Who's at fault?

According to the system, the guy in promos is at fault for complaining about an off-meta pick.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

No, it IS an inability because of that increased consequence. It's not just an increased consequence. In this case, they are the same.

If you do not want the loss then you can choose to not dodge. That is a decision chain, and a choice you make, not a law of the universe.

You can't dodge, because the purpose of dodging is to avoid a loss. If the consequence for dodging is a loss, you cannot dodge, because there is no purpose. You are not able to dodge, and that is the fact. Not an opinion.

Dodging serves no purpose, but it is still a choice available to you. I'm done arguing about that part though. What really matters is what you do after choosing not to dodge. The next logical step would be to play it out and try to win.

Any attempt to circumvent the system that ends up being successful just results in climbing outside of the system. If you climb that way then your rank is meaningless because you got there using shortcuts rather than earning it.

There's no point in discussing something that:

  1. Has likely been discussed before
  2. Riot likely won't reply or care
  3. Has a irrefutable counterargument that's found in almost all suggestions: "There are possible abuse cases"

Hence, the should. It won't happen because of "possible abuse cases."

This is begging the question. You're dismissing the possibility by claiming that it's probably not helpful. You can't use an argument that is in question to support another argument because the first argument is not yet supported, and thus cannot serve as a basis for other claims. I've seen players get responses on numerous occasions on ideas as they relate to gameplay.

I personally was able to get a response from Meddler on the exact issue we are discussing, simply by politely posting my thoughts and questions in reply to one of his gameplay thoughts posts. See here.

{quoted}

Better monitoring and tools around champion select trolling's on the team that deals with that's radar, I know that much. Details beyond that are outside of the area I work in though.

I'd agree personally it can be a really frustrating experience, especially given you don't have any way of knowing as a player what does or doesn't happen to people trolling like that further down the line.

It's not impossible to get a response.

There is no may or may not. They have absolutely no way of knowing, unless they can somehow read my mind through the screen.

You know why you're doing it. You ought to have the moral maturity to not be a selfish and manipulative person.

Taxes don't work as an example, because taxes don't involve a "team." If you dodge taxes, someone will get you, but they won't increase taxes for other people, or something like that.

Taxes affecting a team are applicable to businesses and marriages / families. If multiple people are part of a single tax entity and one of them does something shady then the others are affected. If you can't see it with taxes, look at credit scores. If one person in a household fails to pay rent / mortgage / bills on time then it affects both their credit scores.

I'm not making them do anything.

I'm picking Urgot, and there's also a troll/inter on the team.

They don't want to play with two "useless players" in a 5v5 game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what I'm doing from the perspective of the players and Riot. Anyone that can't read my thoughts, or are discussing it in this comment chain.

That is what you're saying. I can't pick Urgot. While HERE, where I openly say I'm doing it to hopefully get a dodge out of someone else, no one can tell that in-game; for them, I am picking Urgot just to play an offmeta pick. A offmeta pick that they do not like.

No it's not what I'm saying. I don't care if you pick Urgot. I care why. And your reason isn't "I like playing Urgot and I think playing him this match will win the game." You said it yourself that your reason is to make somebody else dodge. It doesn't matter if they know or not. Your reason is horse shit.

I'm saying I'm literally not doing anything wrong to these people by picking Urgot. They don't know why I'm picking Urgot, they just know it's an offmeta pick. They also know that there is a troll/int on the team. They don't know that the troll/int. has to do with the Urgot pick. They identify them as two separate people. For all they know, I could very well be an Urgot one-trick pony. But they don't want to play with a troll/int, and an Urgot on their team. So, they dodge. It doesn't affect the players negatively.

That would be the same as saying that picking any off-meta pick would affect players negatively.

Because to them, that's all that I am doing.

It's not the same. I'm talking about your decision, and why you make it. Not the specific champion that gets picked. The point is you chose a champion you knew your teammates would be opposed to in order to make them dodge. That is not the same as picking a champion because you plan to use it in game and play your best to win.

It's easier to show than to type it out.

You're not showing anything, you are deceiving your teammates in order to manipulate their decision. If you were to actually communicate with them that would be different.

If you're in a ranked game, and see a Darius jungle, what do you think the person on your team, in promos, will respond with?

Most likely, something along the lines of "pls no, I'm in promos."

What are you going to do when they lock in Darius jgl?

What can they do?

Who's at fault?

According to the system, the guy in promos is at fault for complaining about an off-meta pick.

This is another composition/division fallacy. There's nothing wrong with an off-meta pick if the player is trying to win the game with it. You on the other hand are taking an off-meta pick for a different reason. You're redirecting the argument and hiding among players who make perfectly valid off-meta picks. Your situation is not the same as theirs.

Troll for Trump1 votes

If you do not want the loss then you can choose to not dodge. That is a decision chain, and a choice you make, not a law of the universe.

It is not physically bound. We aren't talking about whether or not you can click the X.

If you want to dodge you want to prevent a loss. If you dodge and get a loss for dodging, there is no purpose to dodge. Therefore you can't dodge in promos. That is the way the game works.

Don't apply some "law of the universe" or some random phrasing. This is what it means when you "can't" dodge in promos. Not some physical thing. Not the ability to press X, but the ability to dodge.

If you press X in promos, you aren't dodging. You aren't dodging a loss, you're just closing the client.

Any attempt to circumvent the system that ends up being successful just results in climbing outside of the system. If you climb that way then your rank is meaningless because you got there using shortcuts rather than earning it.

It's a game. You want the shortcuts to get to whatever rank you want, you don't want to get stalled at some low rank because of poor matchmaking or trolls.

If you get paired with trolls, inters, or even poor matchmaking (low MMR team vs high MMR team), it is still an inaccurate representation of skill and rank.

By that logic, any game with a troll, inter, or poor matchmaking makes your rank meaningless because it cause you to lose, making it lower than what it "should" be.

This is begging the question. You're dismissing the possibility by claiming that it's probably not helpful. You can't use an argument that is in question to support another argument because the first argument is not yet supported, and thus cannot serve as a basis for other claims. I've seen players get responses on numerous occasions on ideas as they relate to gameplay.

I personally was able to get a response from Meddler on the exact issue we are discussing, simply by politely posting my thoughts and questions in reply to one of his gameplay thoughts posts. See here.

?

There isn't a question to be asked, because it won't happen. This post isn't making a suggestion. It's a rant. There's no point in asking a question you already know the answer to.

If actually thinking about the question before posting it doesn't give you any answers, you could just google it. Which I did. Unsurprisingly, there have been discussions about it in the past: people would abuse it. People still do. Even in the past, people would circumvent the system by duo queueing in series and having the duo queue partner dodge in unfavorable team comps.

People want to dodge in promos, Riot wouldn't allow it obviously because it would lead to abuse. They wanted promos to be weighed more, which in itself is a bad idea.

Having 3 or 5 random weighted games determining whether or not you get a promotion is bad.

Riot has also talked about revamping the entire ranked system, and are working on it.

One of the most vocal complaints were about the promo system. I share the same complaints, so there's no real cause to just repost about it here.

It's been addressed by Riot, you know the answer. No question is there.

It's not impossible to get a response.

LIKELY

You know why you're doing it. You ought to have the moral maturity to not be a selfish and manipulative person.

Yeah, that's the thing.

There's no such thing as moral maturity.

Morals don't change, they're always their. We are encouraged to act morally proper, but there's no binding contract. Especially in something as simple as a videogame.

If it means not wasting my time and having to deal with shenanigans from other people, WHILE not even being able to have fun in that game, then yeah, I don't want to play in that game. I don't want to waste my time. I don't want to play with the trolls. I want to have fun.

It's selfish, sue me.

I have a life, I don't want to waste my one round with that troll/int, most people wouldn't want to, and the troll/int. obviously doesn't care about anything in the game.

Taxes affecting a team are applicable to businesses and marriages / families. If multiple people are part of a single tax entity and one of them does something shady then the others are affected. If you can't see it with taxes, look at credit scores. If one person in a household fails to pay rent / mortgage / bills on time then it affects both their credit scores.

It's still a really bad analogy. Polygamy is generally outlawed, so it's not 5 people. The reasoning behind paying taxes (obligatory) is different from ranked; you aren't obliged to play ranked. Buisnesses mean you have bosses that can pressure you. In queue there is no boss, so you manage yourself.

And if the boss of the buisness dodges taxes, he doesn't even have to worry as much as his employees would for doing the same action; an employee dodges taxes and his boss gets hurt and punishes the employee. The boss dodges taxes, the employee gets hurt, and...?

No it's not what I'm saying. I don't care if you pick Urgot. I care why. And your reason isn't "I like playing Urgot and I think playing him this match will win the game." You said it yourself that your reason is to make somebody else dodge. It doesn't matter if they know or not. Your reason is horse shit.

No one knows the reason. No one knows the why. You're misreading it really, really hard.

What THE OTHER PEOPLE know, from what happens IN THAT QUEUE is " I like playing Urgot and I think playing him this match will win the game."

What we know, and anyone that could read my thoughts can see is that the reason is "I don't want to play with this team."

They don't know the reason, so it's not like I'm holding a gun up to them.

For those people, the only person holding the gun is themselves.

For them, THEY are the ones with the problem. They don't want Urgot. They don't want to play with the Troll/int. The troll/int is holding them hostage, while the Urgot pick isn't. That's the difference. For them, the Urgot pick is something akin to "oh darn, someone happened to want to play Urgot." It adds a reason for them to dodge, but not a reason for me to be punished, if that makes sense.

For the people in the game, the "why" wouldn't matter, because they have no way of discerning it. For you, it does. But no one else.

You're not showing anything, you are deceiving your teammates in order to manipulate their decision. If you were to actually communicate with them that would be different.

Ok, you REALLY need to work on reading comprehension.

This is another composition/division fallacy. There's nothing wrong with an off-meta pick if the player is trying to win the game with it. You on the other hand are taking an off-meta pick for a different reason. You're redirecting the argument and hiding among players who make perfectly valid off-meta picks. Your situation is not the same as theirs.

Wrong.

It is. I'm trying to show what the game is like in the perspective of the other players in the game, showing that the offmeta pick isn't actively hurting them. In my situation, I'm picking Urgot for a different reason, but THEY DO NOT KNOW THAT.

The situation is the exact same. For everyone else: Riot, The people on my team, the people on the enemy team, I am trying to win the game. The only one who has an issue with it is you.

The situation isn't actually the same, but from what anyone can tell, I am the exact same as people who make perfectly valid off-meta picks (Darius jgl is not a valid off-meta pick, btw),

Thus, there is nothing to be persecuted for. There is nothing wrong; the only one who's being hurt by this is you. Even then, you aren't actually being hurt by this in any ways.

It's basically like this:

If I say I'm not trying to win, like what happened here, obviously everyone would get angry. If I don't say it, like what happens in League, I am doing nothing wrong.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

It is not physically bound. We aren't talking about whether or not you can click the X.

If you want to dodge you want to prevent a loss. If you dodge and get a loss for dodging, there is no purpose to dodge. Therefore you can't dodge in promos. That is the way the game works.

Don't apply some "law of the universe" or some random phrasing. This is what it means when you "can't" dodge in promos. Not some physical thing. Not the ability to press X, but the ability to dodge.

If you press X in promos, you aren't dodging. You aren't dodging a loss, you're just closing the client.

There's nothing random about my phrasing. I chose those words specifically because you act as if you can't dodge, when in reality you can choose to dodge or not depending on what you want.

The point of dodging is to get out of playing a game that you don't want to play. It was never intended to be a means of avoiding the possibility of a loss. If you just don't want to lose then saddle up and carry like a legit player. Sometimes you have to choose between fun and competitive. To be competitive you have to be willing to face those situations and try to come out on top.

It's a game. You want the shortcuts to get to whatever rank you want, you don't want to get stalled at some low rank because of poor matchmaking or trolls.

If you get paired with trolls, inters, or even poor matchmaking (low MMR team vs high MMR team), it is still an inaccurate representation of skill and rank.

By that logic, any game with a troll, inter, or poor matchmaking makes your rank meaningless because it cause you to lose, making it lower than what it "should" be.

Stop misrepresenting my argument. My reasoning is this; Everyone deals with the same shit. Most everyone will climb similarly to others of the same skill level, because most everyone at a particular MMR gets the same average ratio of good and bad teammates. If you use some trick outside the system of playing games in order to climb then you will climb differently from them. Thus you won't have earned your place among them because you didn't go through the same tests of skill as they did.

There isn't a question to be asked, because it won't happen. This post isn't making a suggestion. It's a rant. There's no point in asking a question you already know the answer to.

Begging the question is a logical fallacy. You're using circular reasoning to support a claim. That's not how valid argument works.

The point in asking is in drawing attention. If you get the right Rioters thinking about it they might understand your perspective and take your ideas into account when changing systems.

If actually thinking about the question before posting it doesn't give you any answers, you could just google it. Which I did. Unsurprisingly, there have been discussions about it in the past: people would abuse it. People still do. Even in the past, people would circumvent the system by duo queueing in series and having the duo queue partner dodge in unfavorable team comps.

I straight up prefaced my idea with, "off the top of my head," are you seriously trying to imply that I didn't think enough about that idea? Lul. of course I didn't.

The point is it's possible. And you ought to do that rather than cheat the system.

People want to dodge in promos, Riot wouldn't allow it obviously because it would lead to abuse. They wanted promos to be weighed more, which in itself is a bad idea.

Having 3 or 5 random weighted games determining whether or not you get a promotion is bad.

Riot has also talked about revamping the entire ranked system, and are working on it.

Great, I'm all for that. I honestly don't like the system either. I just also don't approve of abusing it and manipulating teammates for personal gain.

One of the most vocal complaints were about the promo system. I share the same complaints, so there's no real cause to just repost about it here.

If you word your complaints and concerns properly, unlike those other vocal complaints, you are more likely to draw Rioter attention than they are.

Yeah, that's the thing.

There's no such thing as moral maturity.

Morals don't change, they're always their. We are encouraged to act morally proper, but there's no binding contract. Especially in something as simple as a videogame.

The summoner's code says otherwise, on a number of types of immoral behavior which impact other players.

If it means not wasting my time and having to deal with shenanigans from other people, WHILE not even being able to have fun in that game, then yeah, I don't want to play in that game. I don't want to waste my time. I don't want to play with the trolls. I want to have fun.

It's selfish, sue me.

I have a life, I don't want to waste my one round with that troll/int, most people wouldn't want to, and the troll/int. obviously doesn't care about anything in the game.

I'm not saying you shouldn't avoid the bad experience. If you don't want to play that match or, "waste your time" then you should dodge. You can get right back into queue 5 minutes later. There's no good reason to force others to do it for you.

Again, dodging is for the purpose of avoiding bad experiences, not avoiding possible losses. If you're playing to have fun and something would ruin that, then yeah why not dodge? If you're playing to climb ranked and something gets in your way, you should try to overcome that, not cheat around it.

It's still a really bad analogy. Polygamy is generally outlawed, so it's not 5 people. The reasoning behind paying taxes (obligatory) is different from ranked; you aren't obliged to play ranked. Buisnesses mean you have bosses that can pressure you. In queue there is no boss, so you manage yourself.

And if the boss of the buisness dodges taxes, he doesn't even have to worry as much as his employees would for doing the same action; an employee dodges taxes and his boss gets hurt and punishes the employee. The boss dodges taxes, the employee gets hurt, and...?

You took my example way out of context. I never mentioned polygamy. Wasn't talking about bosses. Talking about business owners. This is a legit thing, I know a fellow who had his taxes totally fucked because a business partner screwed up their jointly owned business for selfish reasons. Aaannnyway...

It's wrong to take actions that you know negatively affect other people. It shouldn't take an analogy to show you that. Do I need to make you a picture book to explain it? No. I know you're smarter than that.

No one knows the reason. No one knows the why. You're misreading it really, really hard.

What THE OTHER PEOPLE know, from what happens IN THAT QUEUE is " I like playing Urgot and I think playing him this match will win the game."

What we know, and anyone that could read my thoughts can see is that the reason is "I don't want to play with this team."

Are you saying, "What they don't know won't hurt them?" If so, well they still lose LP for it. So actually it does hurt them.

For them, THEY are the ones with the problem. They don't want Urgot. They don't want to play with the Troll/int. The troll/int is holding them hostage, while the Urgot pick isn't. That's the difference. For them, the Urgot pick is something akin to "oh darn, someone happened to want to play Urgot." It adds a reason for them to dodge, but not a reason for me to be punished, if that makes sense.

That makes sense. However, this toes dangerously close to toxic behavior. And you said so yourself, you think it's acceptable in other types of situations. What methods do you think are acceptable? And what situations? I'd like to see it listed out, to better understand the scope of your opinions.

They don't know the reason, so it's not like I'm holding a gun up to them.

For those people, the only person holding the gun is themselves.

OK so, by that logic is it ok to encourage somebody to shoot themselves? I'm not actually serious here. See below.

This is why you shouldn't use "by that logic" arguments to lay blame at people's feet for things they haven't said. I don't think you would say that, but it's easy to say and wastes time forcing you to clarify a point that's not even core to the discussion, all the while driving us farther off topic. Treat others as you would like to be treated. If you don't want me to pull this crap with you too then don't do it.

The situation isn't actually the same, but from what anyone can tell, I am the exact same as people who make perfectly valid off-meta picks (Darius jgl is not a valid off-meta pick, btw),

Who are you to judge if Darius jg is not valid off-meta? It might work.

Thus, there is nothing to be persecuted for. There is nothing wrong; the only one who's being hurt by this is you. Even then, you aren't actually being hurt by this in any ways.

It's basically like this:

If I say I'm not trying to win, like what happened here, obviously everyone would get angry. If I don't say it, like what happens in League, I am doing nothing wrong.

The point I'm making is that you aren't trying to win. you're trying to make somebody else dodge for you. This is exactly doing something wrong. Just because it is harder to catch does not make it "OK."

Troll for Trump1 votes

There's nothing random about my phrasing. I chose those words specifically because you act as if you can't dodge, when in reality you can choose to dodge or not depending on what you want.

The point of dodging is to get out of playing a game that you don't want to play. It was never intended to be a means of avoiding the possibility of a loss. If you just don't want to lose then saddle up and carry like a legit player. Sometimes you have to choose between fun and competitive. To be competitive you have to be willing to face those situations and try to come out on top.

Because you can't dodge. In reality, you can physically click on the button. That's not how it works. The purpose of dodging is to avoid a loss. If you click on the button in promos, you aren't dodging. You aren't dodging a loss. You're closing the client.

There's nothing illegitimate about this. It's the exact opposite. If you want to be competitive, you'd be even more of a cutthroat. It's basically always been used as a loss, and Riot probably planned for that. That's how it was used in DoTA, which league was based off of.

It's wrong to take actions that you know negatively affect other people. It shouldn't take an analogy to show you that. Do I need to make you a picture book to explain it? No. I know you're smarter than that.

They hardly do. The decisions are of their own accord.

Stop misrepresenting my argument. My reasoning is this; Everyone deals with the same shit. Most everyone will climb similarly to others of the same skill level, because most everyone at a particular MMR gets the same average ratio of good and bad teammates. If you use some trick outside the system of playing games in order to climb then you will climb differently from them. Thus you won't have earned your place among them because you didn't go through the same tests of skill as they did.

Everyone deals with the same shit but no one wants to. Everyone tries to avoid them to the best of their abilities, by dodging. No one likes trolls/ints.

Begging the question is a logical fallacy. You're using circular reasoning to support a claim. That's not how valid argument works.

The point in asking is in drawing attention. If you get the right Rioters thinking about it they might understand your perspective and take your ideas into account when changing systems.

Stop avoiding the point. It's not an argument, it's the way things work. I'm not arguing about that. I'm TELLING you. They won't. It's that simple.

I straight up prefaced my idea with, "off the top of my head," are you seriously trying to imply that I didn't think enough about that idea? Lul. of course I didn't.

The point is it's possible. And you ought to do that rather than cheat the system.

It isn't. The number of previous posts that have failed to do so are enough to show that.

The summoner's code says otherwise, on a number of types of immoral behavior which impact other players.

It doesn't impact other players.

If you word your complaints and concerns properly, unlike those other vocal complaints, you are more likely to draw Rioter attention than they are.

Oh no, those vocal complaints are well-written essay-types. Still no response. Just use common sense.

I'm not saying you shouldn't avoid the bad experience. If you don't want to play that match or, "waste your time" then you should dodge. You can get right back into queue 5 minutes later. There's no good reason to force others to do it for you.

Again, dodging is for the purpose of avoiding bad experiences, not avoiding possible losses. If you're playing to have fun and something would ruin that, then yeah why not dodge? If you're playing to climb ranked and something gets in your way, you should try to overcome that, not cheat around it.

Can't dodge in promos.

Are you saying, "What they don't know won't hurt them?" If so, well they still lose LP for it. So actually it does hurt them.

They dodged of their own accord. No matter if I had ill intent or not, they would've dodged in the same situation no matter what.

That makes sense. However, this toes dangerously close to toxic behavior. And you said so yourself, you think it's acceptable in other types of situations. What methods do you think are acceptable? And what situations? I'd like to see it listed out, to better understand the scope of your opinions.

Not at all. It isn't toxic at all. It isn't negatively effecting them making them do a decision they wouldn't otherwise do.

And you said so yourself, you think it's acceptable in other types of situations. What methods do you think are acceptable? And what situations? I'd like to see it listed out, to better understand the scope of your opinions.

Which part are you referring to?

This is why you shouldn't use "by that logic" arguments to lay blame at people's feet for things they haven't said. I don't think you would say that, but it's easy to say and wastes time forcing you to clarify a point that's not even core to the discussion, all the while driving us farther off topic. Treat others as you would like to be treated. If you don't want me to pull this crap with you too then don't do it.

I don't want to pull this crap, but I have to because you either miss my points on purpose, or can't understand it no matter how many times I repeat it.

The whole "can" or "can't dodge" is an example. You just can't dodge in promos. It's not that hard to grasp.

Who are you to judge if Darius jg is not valid off-meta? It might work.

It doesn't. Who are you to judge whether or not picking Urgot is toxic?

The reasoning behind it may be toxic, but no one knows that. Riot cannot punish me for it. Players aren't negatively affected. You cannot punish me for it.

The point I'm making is that you aren't trying to win. you're trying to make somebody else dodge for you. This is exactly doing something wrong. Just because it is harder to catch does not make it "OK."

Yeah, except I am trying to win... that's why I'm making someone else dodge.

I'm not throwing or inting or trolling.

I'm picking Urgot.

That's it.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I'm just as frustrated as you are. I don't understand how we keep butting heads without getting anywhere. I think we have such fundamentally opposed perspectives that it is harder than normal to be understood by one another.

It would probably help if we stop slinging mud. I'll make a better effort to avoid doing that if you will too. From this point forward I'll try to keep assholery out of my responses. If you keep at it though, I warn you this will just devolve again.

{quoted}

Because you can't dodge. In reality, you can physically click on the button. That's not how it works. The purpose of dodging is to avoid a loss. If you click on the button in promos, you aren't dodging. You aren't dodging a loss. You're closing the client.

There's nothing illegitimate about this. It's the exact opposite. If you want to be competitive, you'd be even more of a cutthroat. It's basically always been used as a loss, and Riot probably planned for that. That's how it was used in DoTA, which league was based off of.

Maybe we are using different definitions of competitive. Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to be thinking that being competitive means "doing anything to win no matter what." I am saying that "being competitive is about trying to be the best." Am I correct in identifying your stance on this? Do you understand mine?

Riot's intended purpose for dodging is not to avoid a loss. It is to avoid terrible experiences. Riot makes it available for players to dodge awful experiences, they punish it because they don't want players to do it often and ruin queue times.

I agree that the way they apply it to promos is kind of fucked, but I don't think that makes it OK to make other players pay a price so that one individual can circumvent that problem. It would be better to address the problem directly with Rioters, which brings us to our next area of discussion.

Stop avoiding the point. It's not an argument, it's the way things work. I'm not arguing about that. I'm TELLING you. They won't. It's that simple.

It isn't. The number of previous posts that have failed to do so are enough to show that.

It doesn't impact other players.

Oh no, those vocal complaints are well-written essay-types. Still no response. Just use common sense.

I'm not avoiding the point. You made an unreasonable claim, and I pushed you to argue it better. I won't dispute that a lot of posts get ignored. My point is that some of them do get attention. Usually the ones that meet Rioters where they come to us, such as Meddler's gameplay thoughts posts.

When you give up and don't participate you lose your stake in the issue. People who choose to abstain from voting are the same. Nobody gives a shit what they think about whichever party is in government because they chose to give up their opportunity to make a difference.

Caring and participating is important because if you never even try then there's 0% chance of being represented rather than the higher chance if you do try.

Can't dodge in promos.

Not arguing over this again, you're being absurd. Dodging means a loss, but if you really don't want to play that game then you ought to dodge it yourself. If your only reason for dodging is to avoid a loss then IMO that's a terrible reason.

They dodged of their own accord. No matter if I had ill intent or not, they would've dodged in the same situation no matter what.

Not all of them would have dodged if you hadn't acted in that manner. The problem is that it's not fair to expect another to pay a price so that you can benefit. Asking is fair because it does not manipulate, it only raises a request and communicates openly. I understand you don't think this will work, but I doubt it would fail every time. I'm as cynical as the next guy, but not everybody sucks or is even normal. Some people are kind enough to oblige.

Not at all. It isn't toxic at all. It isn't negatively effecting them making them do a decision they wouldn't otherwise do.

You cannot be certain of that every single time. The problem lies within the situations where it does force them to decide upon something which they wouldn't otherwise have.

Which part are you referring to?

You talked about bad team comps such as all-ad vs armor tanks. Other examples include getting autofilled teammates, or a teammate getting counterpicked. Not all your words, but several possibilities for when someone might decide the game is disadvantageous and want out. I'm looking for what situations like this you might consider it OK in (obviously assuming in Promos) . Also I want to know which methods you consider OK to use in order to get teammates to dodge.

I don't want to pull this crap, but I have to because you either miss my points on purpose, or can't understand it no matter how many times I repeat it.

This is counterproductive. "Pulling this crap" just results in us arguing off-topic rather than discussing the main points. I don't miss your points on purpose, I make an effort to understand your ideas and I cut a lot of bullshit from my arguments before replying.

The reason I have trouble understanding them is that you have this fundamental assumption about the nature of things that is so foreign to me that I cannot fathom it. I can understand that you don't want to play with trolls, and I can understand that you don't want to lose. But I cannot fathom how that leads you to think it is OK to manipulate others to take the fall for you.

By the way I appreciate that you aren't pulling other crap like rank shaming. That gets in the way of valid discussion even worse than straw-man arguments. Props.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

The whole "can" or "can't dodge" is an example. You just can't dodge in promos. It's not that hard to grasp.

It doesn't. Who are you to judge whether or not picking Urgot is toxic?

I don't think picking urgot is toxic. You answered your own question:

The reasoning behind it may be toxic

Doing something for a toxic reason is wrong. Whether it is caught and punished or not.

Riot cannot punish me for it. Players aren't negatively affected. You cannot punish me for it.

Other players are negatively affected, somebody else loses LP for your sake. Sure you can't be punished for it, but lack of punishment doesn't change that it's wrong.

Yeah, except I am trying to win... that's why I'm making someone else dodge.

You aren't trying to win that match, you're trying to win your promos. There is a key difference there which you are playing down. You are trying to get out of playing that match, which is vastly different from trying to win it.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Maybe we are using different definitions of competitive. Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to be thinking that being competitive means "doing anything to win no matter what." I am saying that "being competitive is about trying to be the best." Am I correct in identifying your stance on this? Do you understand mine?

Yep

Not arguing over this again, you're being absurd. Dodging means a loss, but if you really don't want to play that game then you ought to dodge it yourself. If your only reason for dodging is to avoid a loss then IMO that's a terrible reason.

Because for me, losing a promos series, and wasting all the effort to GET to the promos is a really negative experience.

To work for something then lose it in an instant isn't exactly a good experience.

Not all of them would have dodged if you hadn't acted in that manner. The problem is that it's not fair to expect another to pay a price so that you can benefit. Asking is fair because it does not manipulate, it only raises a request and communicates openly. I understand you don't think this will work, but I doubt it would fail every time. I'm as cynical as the next guy, but not everybody sucks or is even normal. Some people are kind enough to oblige.

Most of the time, someone already said "pls dodge" when the troll/int starts doing his thing (if not them, then me). The thing is, I'm not acting in a particular manner. I'm literally just picking Urgot.

You can't say I'm not trying to win, because I am. I legitimately do play Urgot in ranked with the intent to win, and have mastery 5 (could get mastery 6) on him. It's not fair for them, and it's not fair for me.

It's not fair for anyone except for the troll/int who caused the issue in the first place, but there is no way to deal with the troll/int except after the game, when it's already too late.

You cannot be certain of that every single time. The problem lies within the situations where it does force them to decide upon something which they wouldn't otherwise have.

Yes, but how and when is it FORCING them?

Could you give an example of a situation where picking Urgot forces them to dodge?

You talked about bad team comps such as all-ad vs armor tanks. Other examples include getting autofilled teammates, or a teammate getting counterpicked. Not all your words, but several possibilities for when someone might decide the game is disadvantageous and want out. I'm looking for what situations like this you might consider it OK in (obviously assuming in Promos) . Also I want to know which methods you consider OK to use in order to get teammates to dodge.

The bad team comps:

The autofill trolls/inters Regular trolls/inters Extreme lack of teamwork (leading to the 5 AD comp, when no one wants to pick an Ap champ) Poor matchups (Trynd top + yi jg vs malph top or rammus jg) "Trolling" (basically same thing that I do; yes, teemo jg can work, no, I don't want to see it in promos)

Methods: -No toxicity -No outright stating your intent -Pick Urgot/any offmeta pick that could be justified as offmeta, but not too offmeta (no disco nunu support, for instance, but Darius supp could work.) -if no one has already, state "pls dodge" -use as a last resort, beforehand, try to bargain with the troll or get the team to work together. Usually, acting as an intermediary won't work out.

Doing something for a toxic reason is wrong. Whether it is caught and punished or not.

Riot cannot punish me for it. Players aren't negatively affected. You cannot punish me for it.

Other players are negatively affected, somebody else loses LP for your sake. Sure you can't be punished for it, but lack of punishment doesn't change that it's wrong.

They aren't losing LP just for my sake; they do it for the rest of their team, and for themselves. The reason they dodge is to save their own LP. Based on their judgement, they would lose LP from playing the game. They couldn't care less about what I think, but are doing things for their own selfish gain.

It doesn't change the fact that the action is wrong, but it isn't directly forcing a negative experience onto people. It is encouraging them to avoid the negative experience from playing a game of League with a troll, a Urgot, and a greater loss of LP.

The alternative would be to play it out, and I believe that playing with a troll/int creates a more negative experience for people than that created from me picking Urgot and getting someone to dodge.

In addition, in that situation, there would be a negative experience for 4 people.

While in my situation, there would be a negative experience for maybe 3 people; technically only one, as only one person needs to dodge.

You aren't trying to win that match, you're trying to win your promos. There is a key difference there which you are playing down. You are trying to get out of playing that match, which is vastly different from trying to win it.

I am trying to win my promos, but that also requires winning the match if necessary. In the situation that no one dodges, I will play to the best of my capabilities.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

Because for me, losing a promos series, and wasting all the effort to GET to the promos is a really negative experience.

To work for something then lose it in an instant isn't exactly a good experience.

I feel ya. It's not fair to have it ruined like that, but that's not really Riot's fault. It is the troll player's fault.

Most of the time, someone already said "pls dodge" when the troll/int starts doing his thing (if not them, then me). The thing is, I'm not acting in a particular manner. I'm literally just picking Urgot.

You can't say I'm not trying to win, because I am. I legitimately do play Urgot in ranked with the intent to win, and have mastery 5 (could get mastery 6) on him. It's not fair for them, and it's not fair for me.

Alright.

It's not fair for anyone except for the troll/int who caused the issue in the first place, but there is no way to deal with the troll/int except after the game, when it's already too late.

If you don't do something about it how do you expect it to ever get better in the future? If everybody dodges instead of playing and reporting toxic role-stealers and trolls then they will never get punished... and will just show up in other games and continue to ruin other people's LP by making them dodge :( Not talking about you right now, just trolls and role-stealers.

Yes, but how and when is it FORCING them?

Could you give an example of a situation where picking Urgot forces them to dodge?

Honestly I'm going to drop this Urgot example. You've made it clear that you're not saying anything to make teammates feel worse. I still don't like that it's manipulative and encourages them to do what you want at a cost to them, but I get that from their perspective it's not really impacting them.

The bad team comps:

The autofill trolls/inters Regular trolls/inters Extreme lack of teamwork (leading to the 5 AD comp, when no one wants to pick an Ap champ) Poor matchups (Trynd top + yi jg vs malph top or rammus jg) "Trolling" (basically same thing that I do; yes, teemo jg can work, no, I don't want to see it in promos)

Methods: -No toxicity -No outright stating your intent -Pick Urgot/any offmeta pick that could be justified as offmeta, but not too offmeta (no disco nunu support, for instance, but Darius supp could work.) -if no one has already, state "pls dodge" -use as a last resort, beforehand, try to bargain with the troll or get the team to work together. Usually, acting as an intermediary won't work out.

They aren't losing LP just for my sake; they do it for the rest of their team, and for themselves. The reason they dodge is to save their own LP. Based on their judgement, they would lose LP from playing the game. They couldn't care less about what I think, but are doing things for their own selfish gain.

It doesn't change the fact that the action is wrong, but it isn't directly forcing a negative experience onto people. It is encouraging them to avoid the negative experience from playing a game of League with a troll, a Urgot, and a greater loss of LP.

The alternative would be to play it out, and I believe that playing with a troll/int creates a more negative experience for people than that created from me picking Urgot and getting someone to dodge.

In addition, in that situation, there would be a negative experience for 4 people.

OK I'm not going to treat you like a hero but I can see how that isn't really creating negative experiences.

While in my situation, there would be a negative experience for maybe 3 people; technically only one, as only one person needs to dodge.

I am trying to win my promos, but that also requires winning the match if necessary. In the situation that no one dodges, I will play to the best of my capabilities.

Alright, I understand how and why you do it, I still think it's kind of wrong. But it's not outright trolling or harassment so I'm not taking any further issues with it.

The whole reason I came to this thread in the first place was to point out that people like those auto-fill trolls and role-stealers should be punished better rather than letting them make others dodge and get away with being shitty people. I get that you aren't like them, and I stand by my belief that they should be punished.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Deleted and moved, we ran out of space.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Moved here because we ran out of space again.

{quoted}

There won't be a way to deal with them. The only way to deal with them is reporting through post-game or through a ticket, meaning you still have to play the game with them. The only way that could get you out of this would be the "pre-game dodge" or "pre-game kick" that has been passed around in Boards a lot. But those won't happen because of abuse cases.

If Riot implements a chat monitor that takes role assignment into account then they could tell if someone were stealing another's role or trolling. Then players would not be able to abuse it to kick off-meta or players they simply disagree with.

What I do isn't right, but it's the only way for me to not play with the trolls/ints/etc, mostly in promos. Unless I've dodged too many times in a row (hasn't happened yet), I will be the one to dodge when it isn't promos.

In promos, I don't want to lose the series, drop back down to ~60 lp, win two more games, then have the exact same shenanigans from another troll/int.

After 4 seasons of ranked, I'm really sick of trolls/int. in ranked

I appreciate that you don't do it most of the time. And I feel you, trolls are the worst and they completely ruin games (especially ranked). You might be taking ranked too seriously if you're finding it frustrating and no longer fun. Might I suggest a break from it? I find that I have more fun and win more games when I go into it without preconstructed frustration and tilt.

Troll for Trump1 votes

If Riot implements a chat monitor that takes role assignment into account then they could tell if someone were stealing another's role or trolling. Then players would not be able to abuse it to kick off-meta or players they simply disagree with.

This stuff is pretty unrelated.

But, premades basically can abuse it without even needing to chat. And doing that would mean that the pre-game chat is basically another set of logs, along with the game, so you are doubling the logs. The system only checks through the logs if the person is reported. If you can't report those logs, the automatic system shouldn't see it.

I appreciate that you don't do it most of the time. And I feel you, trolls are the worst and they completely ruin games (especially ranked). You might be taking ranked too seriously if you're finding it frustrating and no longer fun. Might I suggest a break from it? I find that I have more fun and win more games when I go into it without preconstructed frustration and tilt.

I'm not frustrated with ranked as I am with bad teammates.

As of right now, my main frustration is top lane being relatively useless unless you have a global ult.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

This stuff is pretty unrelated.

But, premades basically can abuse it without even needing to chat. And doing that would mean that the pre-game chat is basically another set of logs, along with the game, so you are doubling the logs. The system only checks through the logs if the person is reported. If you can't report those logs, the automatic system shouldn't see it.

Text data isn't a big deal to store, that aside the analysis tool wouldn't have to store it if it just needed it to determine whether or not to kick a player before the game. I could see that testing could be very resource intensive, but it ought to work.

I'm not frustrated with ranked as I am with bad teammates.

As of right now, my main frustration is top lane being relatively useless unless you have a global ult.

Bad teammates are frustrating, but them and ranked will not be mutually exclusive for a while at least. Hence why I suggested a break, as it can be really refreshing to not play serious for a while, or even to take a full break for a few weeks.

Jungle and Mid Lane have better impact due to their positions remaining central on the map. If you're looking for influence over your games that's the way to go.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Text data isn't a big deal to store, that aside the analysis tool wouldn't have to store it if it just needed it to determine whether or not to kick a player before the game. I could see that testing could be very resource intensive, but it ought to work.

I think Riot, somewhere had said they weren't working on it. Not sure though.

Jungle and Mid Lane have better impact due to their positions remaining central on the map. If you're looking for influence over your games that's the way to go.

Yep, that's why I do jg now. I still like playing top lane more, though

Envoy of Melody20 votes

"troll picks"

Hard to identify a troll pick in a community full of teenagers that think EVERYTHING is a troll pick because they don't like it.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

That's why we don't put it in the hands of players to report these people or hand out punishments. It would have to use AI to monitor chat for obvious toxicity and taunting, for example, "idgaf I wanted mid," and "lol fine I'll just go disco-nunu, see how you like that!"

58697132DEL118 votes

Literally autofill CAUSES more issues with this stupid game than fixes. Riot needs to just axe the shit if im waiting 15-20 minutes to get into game anyways i may as well guarantee the role i want AND make sure everyone else did too.

Mizuki Zahra8 votes

enemies had a top autofilled and out trynda destroyed jax and pushed top to nexus at 16 min it was just sad to watch, tryn was going 1v3 and surviving

Lauchmelder7 votes

So Autofill is the reason? Not the absolute garbage attitude people have when getting autofilled? The same people that just spout "gg autofill" instead of asking someone to swap with them?

Ok then.

option paralysis1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZAzAYcOa,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-04-29T09:58:06.178+0000)

So Autofill is the reason? Not the absolute garbage attitude people have when getting autofilled? The same people that just spout "gg autofill" instead of asking someone to swap with them?

Ok then.

meaning autofill makes them that way. lol Maybe you and I can be calm and swap normally with other people, but get this crazy idea.. not every human being is the same....?!?!?!? crazy right ? I love losing the game in champ select because some dumbass took a champ he never played in a lane he can't play just to waste 10 mins of finding and getting into a game and then minimum of 20 mins in game.

Lauchmelder7 votes

If people can't even ask someone to swap with them they lost any right to complain about it (or even dodge the game).

Unvictus3 votes

Problem is when you nicely ask to swap people just say "quit complaining, everyone has to auto fill sometimes, take your turn."

Leetri3 votes

Then you just have to accept it, sadly. Play your role to the best of your abilities. Even without autofill you'd get the guys who queued up for Mid, gets Mid, picks LeBlanc for the first time ever and then proceed to end the game 1/20/4. Even if you limited it so you need to have Mastery 7 (which would kill ranked population, but that's besides the point) to pick a champion in ranked you'd get people who feed like crazy and throw the game. Sadly that's the way it is, and that's not limited to League. You get shitty customers at work, you get shitty bosses, you run into shitty people on the street, you get shitty nurses in the hospital. They have attitude problems and take it out on whatever they have in front of them.

Of course, a lot if not most of the "feeders" are just regular, nice people having bad days. I've had games where nothing has gone right even though I'm usually pretty good with that champion. People need to put less weight on the individual games and look at it in a broader sense. Over time all the feeders and ragers will even out and win you just as many if not more games (due to being on the enemy team) than they cost you. Unless you're a shitty person too there's always 1 less feeder/rager on your team every game.

idontgiveabother5 votes

Its such a toxic system... If someone gets autofilled I swear its almost a guaranteed loss from there. On top of that the queue times are the same if not longer in most cases. The game was fine when they didn't have autofill for the few months in between dynamic queue and autofill. I also have seen maybe a handful of people say its a good thing when majority hate it. I honestly don't get it.

Sraeg20137 votes

Only high Diamond, Master and Challenger needed autofill to function with the Role Selection.

Enabling it below Gold was idiocy.

muted team chat4 votes

It's way better than why dynamic que first came out and que times were 1 year. Stop wanting everything to be perfect. It will never happen.

Darkdemon65323 votes

{quoted}

It's way better than why dynamic que first came out and que times were 1 year. Stop wanting everything to be perfect. It will never happen.

There was a time when we could pick our roles and our champions with 100% certainty. That was perfection. Riot took it away.

KoggyStyle14 votes

Rip team builder.

Project omen2 votes

{quoted}

There was a time when we could pick our roles and our champions with 100% certainty. That was perfection. Riot took it away.

No, it wasn't. It has been statistically proven that people didn't play team builder which is exactly why Riot removed it.

Automated Riven10 votes

i never played anything but team builder when it was out.

Votable Jester10 votes

The best part was that people couldn't really flame you for your pick because they already agreed to play with that pick.

AMYS GRAVE5 votes

and you could sort out toxic teammates before the game began, meaning you got higher quality games.

ChaoticPinecone4 votes

...And that was also a time when you had to wait 10 minutes for a game when you wanted to be Mid, but it took less than 10 seconds if you queued as support.

I can see why they never implemented it into ranked.

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