With the new changes on the PBE for support items, supports are highly punished for attempting to wave clear and protect a turret.
Thanks a lot to every champion that abuses support items and has to ruin it for the champions they're actually meant for.
BeatzBoyFTW19 votesA big fuck you to 
players for building it, who're mainly the culprits for building it in solo lanes.
Tomoe Gozen2 votesWhat support items are we talking about, that are also able to "waveclear" a minion wave under turret and these champions abuse it?
Eedat9 votesWell support items are OP as fuck so of course everyone is going to use them. They give stupid amounts of gold. Maybe they should just stop trying to funnel gold onto a role for doing nothing lol. Passive gold is just an awful mechanic. This is the exact same shit that happened back with gp5.
Marshbouy22 voteshow else are supports supposed to get gold then?
500000000000000012 voteslol make support items even cheaper That'll solve the issue of solo laners abusing support items
######/s
Eedat2 votesKills, assists, towers, global gold, and farm. You know, like every other champ in the game.
Marshbouy15 votesThis is the funniest shit ever.
Kills, assists, towers, global gold,
So what happens if it is a passive lane or you get behind in objectives? Do supports just not get gold?
and farm.
LMAO. Supports don't farm.
Heckin Support14 votesMaybe they should just stop trying to funnel gold onto a role for doing nothing lol.
The point of this thread isn't to talk about the validity of the support role, although support isn't a role that doesn't do anything... If you think that, you've obviously never been on a team or against a good support.
Dorans Pants2 votesWell support items are OP as fuck so of course everyone is going to use them. They give stupid amounts of gold. Maybe they should just stop trying to funnel gold onto a role for doing nothing lol. Passive gold is just an awful mechanic. This is the exact same shit that happened back with gp5.
i mean why should supports, a role that is supposed to have no impact on the game, have gold anyway? in the end, you don´t need gold to be a cc-bot and a ward slave. (/sarcasm)
in league a team consists of 4 players and 1 support
i´m not arguing that supports may have too much gold right now, but taking away power from the already least desired role, sounds terrible considering the fact that we need systems like autofill just to force people into a role no one wants to play. maybe if they addressed the issues that are plaguing the support role since forever they wouldn´t have to make it op just so it is at least bearable for players stuck with the role.
PB4UAME2 votesJust a small point, in plat+ top is the least queued, hence least desired role. Autofill is as much, or more so for top lane nowadays as it is for the support role, as its mostly aimed at diamond+ anyway.
Zone of Endless8 votesWon't make much of a difference tbh. The only time you push a wave is when you're about to go back anyway. Killing minions already grant you the gold and typically you'll get 3-4 at most so you'll have to wait about 1 minute for your item to recharge again.
Heckin Support12 votes[{quoted}](name=Zone of Endless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7WzIwfj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-02-25T05:02:28.359+0000)
Won't make much of a difference tbh. The only time you push a wave is when you're about to go back anyway. Killing minions already grant you the gold and typically you'll get 3-4 at most so you'll have to wait about 1 minute for your item to recharge again.
It's not even just about killing a wave. The amount of times you might accidentally kill a minion as a support is pretty high, especially while you're trading. With supports like Sona, Zyra, Morgana, Lulu, Soraka, etc. you're bound to kill something by accident and you get punished for it.
Zone of Endless2 votesIt's not even just about killing a wave. The amount of times you might accidentally kill a minion as a support is pretty high, especially while you're trading. With supports like Sona, Zyra, Morgana, Lulu, Soraka, etc. you're bound to kill something by accident and you get punished for it.
Then reduce those accidental minion kills. It's impossible to never accidentally take a cs, but it's definitely possible to massively reduce the amount of time you might accidentally take one. If you mindlessly trade and somehow accidentally take a minion then you deserve it.
edit: also the wording changed, but isn't the effect practically identical? You still disable support gold generation for killing minions already on live. "Killing minions and non-epic monsters stops Tribute generation, consumption, and gold generation for 12 seconds per unit slain."
2Charmnot2Charm7 votesAlright i guess i'll start allowing the enemy adc to farm because i might accidentally kill a minion woo.
Zone of Endless2 votesAlright i guess i'll start allowing the enemy adc to farm because i might accidentally kill a minion woo.
Alright if you want to continue being shite at the game because you don't want to improve then be my guest
2Charmnot2Charm4 votesBeing shit at the game cause someone doesn't like riot nerfing aggressive play styles?
I would love to have what you're smoking.
Daedric Etwahl4 votesI'm a Sona main, and I'm pretty good at not taking minions with my Q, but sooner or later that shit is gonna happen, and with the new PBE change it punishes me even harder for it. If I Q and it targets an enemy and a minion, and it kills the minion first then I don't get the tribute proc off the enemy. And again if my adc is bad and I'm left defending the turret then that leaves me with a stack of the 12 second debuff. Not to mention that it also now is turning off the passive goldgen whenever it happens.
To be honest the only reason this is happening is because dumb toplaners cant keep their hands off of items not meant for them, which is causing us to suffer for it.
Done252 votes[{quoted}](name=Zone of Endless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7WzIwfj,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-02-25T14:04:13.600+0000)
Then reduce those accidental minion kills. It's impossible to never accidentally take a cs, but it's definitely possible to massively reduce the amount of time you might accidentally take one. If you mindlessly trade and somehow accidentally take a minion then you deserve it.
edit: also the wording changed, but isn't the effect practically identical? You still disable support gold generation for killing minions already on live. "Killing minions and non-epic monsters stops Tribute generation, consumption, and gold generation for 12 seconds per unit slain."
The current effect merely delays tribute procs. This revert makes it so you can't proc it at all. HUGE difference.
Master Noct4 votes[{quoted}](name=Zone of Endless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7WzIwfj,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-02-25T14:04:13.600+0000)
Then reduce those accidental minion kills. It's impossible to never accidentally take a cs, but it's definitely possible to massively reduce the amount of time you might accidentally take one. If you mindlessly trade and somehow accidentally take a minion then you deserve it.
edit: also the wording changed, but isn't the effect practically identical? You still disable support gold generation for killing minions already on live. "Killing minions and non-epic monsters stops Tribute generation, consumption, and gold generation for 12 seconds per unit slain."
inb4 both teams have an arrangement to fight in river to avoid killing minions as they're fighting inside waves usually.
RainbowIcee1 votesIt's not even just about killing a wave. The amount of times you might accidentally kill a minion as a support is pretty high, especially while you're trading. With supports like Sona, Zyra, Morgana, Lulu, Soraka, etc. you're bound to kill something by accident and you get punished for it.
they should probably change it to a countdown then. Be it like 3 minion kills within a certain period disables it for x amount of time.
Malix Farwin10 votes[{quoted}](name=Zone of Endless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7WzIwfj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-02-25T05:02:28.359+0000)
Won't make much of a difference tbh. The only time you push a wave is when you're about to go back anyway. Killing minions already grant you the gold and typically you'll get 3-4 at most so you'll have to wait about 1 minute for your item to recharge again.
It will because it will take you longer to get a SS if you kill a minion by mistake.
50000000000000002 votesNot if you're trying to defend a turret
Ahristocats8 votes"harder"
as if they're punished atm
AbiwonKenabi6 votesDoes nobody remember the dark days of support way back in Season 2? Supports would buy nothing but passively generating gold items like Philosopher's Stone and Heart of Gold, then just load up their inventory with pink wards. So supports were basically worthless, Sona was picked every game because she could do so much on such a crap budget, but even she was essentially a ward/buff bot with a useful team fight ultimate. Meanwhile, every other role abused Philosopher's Stone and HoG (and whatever the third one was...Lucky Dagger or something?), so you'd get tank junglers that could gank constantly and still get a ton of gold. Or you'd get the terrifying BankPlank, which if you haven't noticed is making a resurgence of sorts and obviously most players aren't happy about that. And this is coming from someone who really liked Season 2 and played a ton of Sona at the time and loved it, so I can't imagine how it was for people who absolutely HATED it.
Basically, my point is, gold generation items are a necessary evil, but they have to be treated carefully as they can be abused by other roles. There just aren't enough lanes on the map to get enough gold, so there is always going to be at least one role that sacrifices cs for the good of the team. And rather than allowing them to remain poor, Riot has created gold generation items. Supports aren't killing cs consistently, so this, for the most part, shouldn't affect them, and it even resets when you back so you can shove a lane off the tower before you leave if you have to.
Agent Corgi3 votes(and whatever the third one was...Lucky Dagger or something?)
I think it was Kage's Lucky Pick. That item was evenutally reworked into FrostFang.
AbiwonKenabi1 votesAh yes, I knew it was lucky somehow. And blue, so I guess that makes sense that its current equivalent is FrostFang.
Hibeki3 votesThe problem is that they just kept increasing supports gold gain, decreasing the cost of items, gave them better stats, then removed the biggest source of gold spending: Wards.
Then they didnt nerf any of the stuff they aded.
alone gives 12 gold per 10 counting all the gold stats on it, plus good stats, free sighstone, mana regen. On a starting item.
Its fucking broken.
AbiwonKenabi1 votesYeah, but the gold items are not nearly as appealing as they used to be on other roles, THAT'S what changed. Philosopher's Stone gave way too much gold for how cheap it was; it gave FIVE gold per 10 and only cost 700g, vs Frostfang's passive 2 per 10 and totals at 850g. In order to get the full gold income from the newer gold items, you actually have to do something, not just float around and heal. Making it so that last hitting minions disables the passive makes it even less appealing on other roles. This isn't as punishing for supports as people make it out to be. Yeah, every now and then you'll accidentally last hit a minion, but the vast majority of the time you won't be, so you'll be getting your gold.
Hibeki1 votesdont like thts a real point, the only other roles that built heart of gold or philo stone was Gangplank and Junglers early into the role.
Also you completely ignored the math of what i said and it requires no upgrade.
Nuparu2 votesYou also don't have to buy wards, pink wards, or Sightstone (when it was added), but rather you can buy impact items with the same gold budget. Also, optimal use case of the support items leads to a lot more than 2 gp5.
The gold income of support is fairly high (for not last hitting) already, they can live with a bit of downtime...
Tokogawaruf4 votesWell RIP 
.
active is still nowhere to be seen again yet.AbiwonKenabi2 votesWhat are you talking about? Shurelya's went up on PBE didn't it?
Tokogawaruf3 votesyou are now my herald of hope and love.
Thank you for this message.
Ionian Vulpix3 votesWhat are the changes on the PBE?
Trias0003 votesI fucking hate when people do that - they mention something without explaining what it is, and proceed like it's an obvious thing everyone knows about.
Ariel the Cruel4 votesEveryone uses the PBE forums, monitors S@20 religiously, and/or has PBE access. Just like 100% of the player base actively uses the (NA) LoL forums which is how we always know everything about the game!
Marshbouy1 votesCan I get a link to the PBE changes?
Heckin Support8 votesCan I get a link to the PBE changes?
http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html
Just scroll down to items. "Minion or non-epic monster kills temporarily disable Favor and gold generation." Every support item now has this added to it (except for the relic shield line, it only procs if you kill a minion without an execute stack).
Marshbouy4 votesThank you.
RIP me.
Spank the Fox1 votesWhy are you linking an outdated PBE update?
http://www.surrenderat20.net/2018/02/223-pbe-update-tentative-balance-changes.html?m=1
This has been up even before your post. Keep yourself informed before spreading misinformation.
2Charmnot2Charm2 votesIt's the exact samething just worded differently [zombie-brand-facepalm]
Spank the Fox2 votesIt literally says “the penalty is reset in fountain” which is omitted from OPs first link and more importantly, his first post
Does no one fucking read?
Heckin Support6 votes[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7WzIwfj,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-25T16:49:59.609+0000)
It literally says “the penalty is reset in fountain” which is omitted from OPs first link and more importantly, his first post
Does no one fucking read?
Actually, it's no omitted from the link. It's the same PBE patch... Also just because it's omitted when backing doesn't make it better. It might make it better if you're trying to quickly waveclear, but what if you accidentally take a CS?
Daedric Etwahl2 votesLike I get that "you should be good enough to not take CS when poking" which yeah is true, but unless your poke is point and click (like Janna for instance) then sooner or later that shit is gonna happen. It's like dodging skillshots, eventually I'm gonna accidentally kill a minion with Sona Q and not only do I not get the gold i dont get the bonus damage either, just because the minion was closer.
Onecimus1 votesAs a support main who loves the roll because for the first ten minutes all you have to do is poke, this is not a problem. It is a fine way to stop other lanes from using an item that wasn't meant for them. If you are taking enough minions from your ADC that not having your support item for 12 seconds kills your lane, then you need to be better. You will typically end a game with less than 20 cs, most of which were gotten after the laning phase.
Also, spellthief has always had this. Not a big change there.
xelaker4 votes
so supports like these, who generally aren't taking minions on purpose should take a hit because top champs like freebies?
Onecimus2 votes
1). All of those generally take spellthiefs in the first place, WHICH HAS ALWAYS HAD THIS.
2). But, yes, all of those supports are capable of playing well enough that they are not stealing farm from their adc. It doesn't matter if they do it on purpose or not. The point is being good enough to not to take the farm. No one dies one purpose, but it still happens, the point is being good enough not to.
3). I don't blame top lane, ADC, jungle, and sometimes midlane for sometimes taking the items. Because this game is all about getting those small advantages. And Riot sees that things are being abused and balances them. Will everyone be happy? No. Hence we end up with threads like this with no solutions, just complaints.
Daedric Etwahl1 votesWell, actually with the new change it does cause two new things: A. Killing a minion does turn off the gp10, which yeah isn't killer, no, but if my spell kills a minion before hitting an enemy, then I just don't get the tribute proc, and I'm pretty good at not taking minions, sooner or later it's going to happen.
Onecimus1 votes[{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7WzIwfj,comment-id=000f000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-25T19:06:18.251+0000)
Well, actually with the new change it does cause two new things: A. Killing a minion does turn off the gp10, which yeah isn't killer, no, but if my spell kills a minion before hitting an enemy, then I just don't get the tribute proc, and I'm pretty good at not taking minions, sooner or later it's going to happen.
This is true, but it's not like you won't be able to get gold for the rest of the game. Just 12 seconds per minion that you kill. Which can add up if you aren't careful. But every so often is not to harsh at all.
Daedric Etwahl1 votesTrue, but every spell feels like it matters as Sona, and it'll suck to spend that mana and not get the gold and damage off just because of a stray minion.