"Azir syndrome"

BeatinWarDrumz·Sep 7, 2015·7 votes·5,150 views

As we all know, Azir is THE premier mid laner in pro play. However, in soloq due to his hardness to play, his winrate is abysmal. Maybe he could use some QoL buffs that wouldnt make him easier in the pros but for soloq?

discuss

12 Comments

RiotMeddlerSep 7, 201514 votes

Yeah, Azir's learning curve's extremely steep (hardest in the game last I checked). Having a long learning curve for a champion has a lot of value, it means there's almost always something you can learn and improve at. In Azir's case though his curve's both very long and, during your initial games, really steep. That means there's a really punishing period to get through before you can start playing him reasonably well, given we need to balance for players who know what they're doing on him. Ways to make him a bit more accessible, without removing depth, would be really valuable as a result. We've been considering doing that at some point later this year already, thoughts extremely welcomed on things to look at.

warpenguin555Sep 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Azir's learning curve's extremely steep (hardest in the game last I checked). Having a long learning curve for a champion has a lot of value, it means there's almost always something you can learn and improve at. In Azir's case though his curve's both very long and, during your initial games, really steep. That means there's a really punishing period to get through before you can start playing him reasonably well, given we need to balance for players who know what they're doing on him. Ways to make him a bit more accessible, without removing depth, would be really valuable as a result. We've been considering doing that at some point later this year already, thoughts extremely welcomed on things to look at.

any chance azir's towers could speed up? they take too long to get ready

WalkingInACircleSep 7, 20152 votes

I'd say: change his E to something else. So long as he's mobile with his range, he's very safe and it requires power to be drained from his kit. It also adds significant decisions to an Azir because where he places or saves his soldiers determines where and when he can dash. Then give him some more upfront burst damage. This lets Azir have some more straightforward playmaking power which doesn't rely on allies to setup DPS.

My ideal would be: Q: Moves soldiers, 40%+ slow, no damage W: No slow on soldier's autos E: Targetted burst damage, something like the soldiers throwing their spears? Empowered soldier auto w/ reset? Etc.

So, Azir has a bigger slow and burst combo damage against an individual target and retains his dps zones, with less safety and weakened DPS ability with loss of soldier's slows. Can get back soldier slow by building Rylai's. Or mana item, as he will be using all 3 skills more regularly I think. Anyway, I think that would simplify his attack pattern and reduce the decisions the player must make.

Cosmic WarperSep 7, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Azir's learning curve's extremely steep (hardest in the game last I checked). Having a long learning curve for a champion has a lot of value, it means there's almost always something you can learn and improve at. In Azir's case though his curve's both very long and, during your initial games, really steep. That means there's a really punishing period to get through before you can start playing him reasonably well, given we need to balance for players who know what they're doing on him. Ways to make him a bit more accessible, without removing depth, would be really valuable as a result. We've been considering doing that at some point later this year already, thoughts extremely welcomed on things to look at.

Have his Q cooldown be slightly lower so players aren't punished super hard if they don't reposition their soldiers properly, and to reduce his Q AP scaling and slightly increase W base damage so that his Q is focused on repositioning while his W will be the crux of his damage output at almost all stages. (think orianna and her Q).

IxtaliKingSep 7, 20157 votes

Change his E. If there's no way of balancing his kit with his Es original functionality it should be completely replaced. Also, I recall Azir was meant to have a weak early and a strong late? Perhaps his soldier range should start smaller then increase with his w level and his attack speed passive be moved to his ult.

AbyssphereSep 7, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Azir's learning curve's extremely steep (hardest in the game last I checked). Having a long learning curve for a champion has a lot of value, it means there's almost always something you can learn and improve at. In Azir's case though his curve's both very long and, during your initial games, really steep. That means there's a really punishing period to get through before you can start playing him reasonably well, given we need to balance for players who know what they're doing on him. Ways to make him a bit more accessible, without removing depth, would be really valuable as a result. We've been considering doing that at some point later this year already, thoughts extremely welcomed on things to look at.

I'm not sure if you'll read this but personally I feel the problem with Azir isn't just a case of extreme learning curve but a combination of that learning curve, plus power budget distribution that is incompatible with solo queue. When you look at other champions with high learning curves like Syndra, they don't face the problem that Azir has where they can't be anywhere close to decent in solo queue without being insane in the hands of pros, and that's because their kits have less stuff that's valuable in a competitive environment than Azir has.

The problem here is that while a mastered Syndra can (if she's actually viable, maybe next patch) win lane hard, make picks, assassinate carries and crowd control team fights. They don't require all that much coordination, just personal mastery. But Azir can't say the same - a standard solo queue Azir cannot make as much use of his sustained DPS because he cannot rely on his teammaters to keep his targets in place for him, he cannot rely on people to peel for him as they would peel for an ADC, and his safety via his (IMO completely out of place, just saying) mobility is more valuable in the LCS because they care a lot more about not throwing than regular Joes do, and they're also gonna be better at using the Shurima Shuffle, not just because of better mechanics but because of having a better idea of where their teammates want the enemy to be and when.

tl;dr I'm definitely of the belief that Azir's learning curve is downright cruel, but I think aside from making Azir's kit easier to use for people who are new to him, you should also attempt to make his kit more valuable to people who are not in teams of five. I think as long as his kit needs not just personal mastery but teammates who can work well with it to succeed, there will always be a disparity between pro and regular Azir that's difficult for you guys to balance. What you'd need to change to fix that I don't know, but I've already seen people suggest that his E isn't very healthy for his kit right now because... it pretty much seems to exist solely to cover weaknesses that he should probably have, since the knockup removal. But that's just one idea.

Hyrum GraffSep 8, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Azir's learning curve's extremely steep (hardest in the game last I checked). Having a long learning curve for a champion has a lot of value, it means there's almost always something you can learn and improve at. In Azir's case though his curve's both very long and, during your initial games, really steep. That means there's a really punishing period to get through before you can start playing him reasonably well, given we need to balance for players who know what they're doing on him. Ways to make him a bit more accessible, without removing depth, would be really valuable as a result. We've been considering doing that at some point later this year already, thoughts extremely welcomed on things to look at.

I think of Azir as a kind of combination of Heimer (DO NOT FIGHT IN HIS TURRETS / SOLDIERS) and Orianna (the ball is the real threat).

Can't say as I have any idea for what to do with him, but maybe a comparison between Azir and the things that affect Ori and Heim's mastery curves would be plentiful.

Linna ExcelSep 8, 20152 votes

I guess the most obvious suggestion is giving him a nerf targeted at highest levels of play and a buff targeted at everyone who isn't in the LCbleepingS.

GorillazNtheMystSep 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Azir's learning curve's extremely steep (hardest in the game last I checked). Having a long learning curve for a champion has a lot of value, it means there's almost always something you can learn and improve at. In Azir's case though his curve's both very long and, during your initial games, really steep. That means there's a really punishing period to get through before you can start playing him reasonably well, given we need to balance for players who know what they're doing on him. Ways to make him a bit more accessible, without removing depth, would be really valuable as a result. We've been considering doing that at some point later this year already, thoughts extremely welcomed on things to look at.

I've been playing Azir as my main for a year now and I STILL can't get a hang of him because y'all keep changing him. And frankly he's currently quite bad. Find me someone besides Eazyhoon doing particularly well with him consistently.

The Yetii RiderSep 7, 20153 votes

Suggestions (coming from someone who almost never plays Azir, so the prime target right?):

Make the visual indicator above a dead turret more noticeable. Really visually loud, because in the middle of a team fight you can almost forget that you have this power and it's crucial to know when to activate it.
Have Shifting Sands check to see if there are any targets in the path of trajectory on-cast, and if so, grant the shield on-cast instead of when you hit the enemy champion. This is similar to Nasus and Renekton's ultimates, when a player is tapping that button they usually want the shield/heal right away and a delay can really screw up everything.
Just a minor QoL here but can you change the exclamation points above the sand soldier heads when they are under turret to something else? If Rengar is in the game, I am always keeping an eye on the screen for exclamation points and those are totally different messages from the exact same symbol.

StreetonSep 7, 20151 votes

viktor is: And also i have ever found azir difficult to play and i have a 3.8 kda with him

Faded LichSep 8, 20151 votes

On one hand I agree he should be easier to learn IF they can do it without making the champion less deep and actually easier to play, which i don't know how they can manage. But personally, I'm enjoying the learning experience. Each game is a challenge and is fun imo. Same reason I love playing Yasuo or Orianna when she is free (haven't bought her just yet.) Anything with a curve is imo very rewarding to the player once they get the hang of it and I think that is a very good thing.

So, if you lessen the curve that is fine, I just don't think it should be removed nor should the challenge of actually mastering Azir be changed. Of course, like I said I have no clue how anyone is going to do this, I'm just voicing my opinion and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.