Riven's somewhat annoying kit is made 10x worse by...

BeatinWarDrumz·Oct 12, 2015·36 votes·3,877 views

I'm not gonna lie - Riven is a champion who I like. She is my best top laner, and personally, I understand why she is SOMEWHAT annoying, but not fizz/kalista levels. Honestly, what is worse about riven is her playerbase. I know there are a ton of nice riven players out there but riven has the single highest afk percentage in games... by a significant margin.

Please, if you are one of "those" riven mains, improve your behavior. You make an already somewhat annoying champion worse and give her a bad rep.

59 Comments

Faith BreakerOct 12, 201525 votes

It's like Riven has a reputation for being among the most broken, op, or snowbally champs there are. So when a player plays said champ, they expect to win. And if they do bad or poorly, surely it's their team's fault, and what better way to punish your FOOLISH team mates by afk'ing and showing the how pro you are?

Meh.

DrCyanideOct 12, 201513 votes

Vayne and Riven mains both seem to suffer from this...

BIG BAD AXE MANOct 12, 201516 votes

i find Yasuo mains much more toxic, imo.

CroaninOct 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

i find mains much more toxic, imo.

Meh I disagree simply because Yasuo has a far harder to play effectively. Riven has a high skill cap but a rather low skill floor, therefore these toxic Riven mains are used to getting fed in lane.

I personally hate having Yasuo on my team because they almost always feed, and if they do get fed in lane they yolo into fights as if their kit has an easy to land knock up + AoE stun + ranged execute to 1v4. Not to mention they casually pick him mid when your team has no AP. For these reasons Yasuo mains tend to be more humble.

Riven and Vayne players are the worst. Vayne is like Riven in the reverse since she's an ADC with like 0 utility needs to be babysat completely and god forbid she loses lane on like thee worst laning champion it's her team's fault.

ShinTwistOct 12, 201510 votes

Their skill floors are actually pretty similar:

http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo/Top http://champion.gg/champion/Riven

Look at the chart for win rate % by games played. Riven starts out lower than Yasuo in the hands of less experienced players but is picked up more quickly, having a more linear progression. Yasuo players hit his median winrate at around 70+ games, and Riven around 90-100+ games, Riven's median win rate is slightly higher, so this is actually pretty close.

CroaninOct 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Their skill floors are actually pretty similar:

http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo/Top http://champion.gg/champion/Riven

Look at the chart for win rate % by games played. Riven starts out lower than Yasuo in the hands of less experienced players but is picked up more quickly, having a more linear progression. Yasuo players hit his median winrate at around 70+ games, and Riven around 90-100+ games, Riven's median win rate is slightly higher, so this is actually pretty close.

Lol that data is confusing. I'll check it out later. But I think you should include Yasuo mid. To be honest I play neither champion, but from what I hear and just looking at their kits Yasuo seems harder. Due to Riven's on demand shield, knock up, aoe stun and ranged execute she has a lot of tools to deal with most matchups and can simply blow people up. Yasuo has to time his Wind Wall, and land skill shots.

ShinTwistOct 12, 20155 votes

I chose not to include Yasuo mid for a couple reasons.

Laziness. I'd have to combine both sets of data after mathing out the difference in his play rate across lanes.
Comparing his performance in the same lane as her gives a more direct and accurate comparison.
I just think he's better top lane, for similar reasons to Riven; the lane is longer so your all in is more effective.

To be honest I play neither champion, but from what I hear and just looking at their kits Yasuo seems harder. Due to Riven's on demand shield, knock up, aoe stun and ranged execute she has a lot of tools to deal with most matchups and can simply blow people up. Yasuo has to time his Wind Wall, and land skill shots.

To be fair, Riven's Q and E turn herself into a skill shot. :p I have only played Yasuo a handful of times, but my performance was no worse than my early Riven games. Even so, I'd consider my own experience to be anecdotal, the statistics imply their skill floor is similar, whose is higher is arguable, Riven takes longer to hit the median, but her median is higher.

Yasuo's improvement curve if nothing else is less linear than Riven's, the improvement a Yasuo sees in those 70ish games is less than the improvement Riven sees in the same time, so in that sense he could be harder.

In terms of who is harder to execute at the highest level, I'd have to actually get there, and frankly, I have a job, a life, and only decent reaction time.

notmebuthimOct 13, 20152 votes

My first Riven game I went 34/4/15. My first Yasuo game I went 2/13/4... both ended at 20

BIG BAD AXE MANOct 12, 20152 votes

as a Riven main and someone who does not represent the stereotypical rage-quitter, i actually find a lot of Yasuo in top lane, with summoner 4 summoner 14 thinking they can outplay me. from my experience, most, if not all, have been toxic towards my team and his team equally.

MrStealYourDuoOct 13, 20152 votes

Yasuo vs Riven is almost impossible to win by Yasuo, unless the Riven player's brain isn't functioning. Riven has all the tools to win, and will win pretty much every time.

CroaninOct 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

vs is almost impossible to win by Yasuo, unless the Riven player's brain isn't functioning. Riven has all the tools to win, and will win pretty much every time.

Riven has the tools to win most top lane match ups due to the margin of error her kit allows for her. Not like it's gated by a resource or anything. Even on Garen her well known hard counter can get out played by her. Damn near every match up is a skill match up, which would be fine if she wasn't freakin resourceless.

manliestdinoOct 13, 20152 votes

Idk why everything being a skill match up is bad, it can show your limits of your knowledge and skill.

CroaninOct 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Idk why everything being a skill match up is bad, it can show your limits of your knowledge and skill.

It's not bad at all, the problem is not all champions have that luxury. The core reason so many things are a skill match up for her is because she has no resource.

ShinTwistOct 13, 20157 votes

If anything the idea that most of her match ups are skill match ups proves that Riven herself is one of the better designs in the game. Also, her being manaless is part of her power budget, if she had a resource that limited her ability to spam she'd be terrible.

Some champions not being designed as well is no reason to come down on Riven.

Also, not every match up is truly a skill match up. No matter how good of a Riven player you are, you just can't outplay point and clicks, and you just can't kill a guy who has more armour than you can carry swords.

CroaninOct 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If anything the idea that most of her match ups are skill match ups proves that Riven herself is one of the better designs in the game. Also, her being manaless is part of her power budget, if she had a resource that limited her ability to spam she'd be terrible.

Some champions not being designed as well is no reason to come down on Riven.

Also, not every match up is truly a skill match up. No matter how good of a Riven player you are, you just can't outplay point and clicks, and you just can't kill a guy who has more armour than you can carry swords.

Having a lot of skill match ups isn't a big deal. Irelia is similar, difference is Irelia can go freakin oom. Being manaless is not part of her power budget at all, she trades absolutely nothing for it. Garen's CDs are at least rather long, hell his ultimate used to have the CD of AoE CC ultimate's like Amumu, and I honestly don't think they should have ever buffed it since it's a trade off imo.

Slapping a mana bar on her though would make her awful though you are right. Perhaps they could let her Q cost be free since she needs her mobility, it's the fact that she has an AoE stun, a shield and a damage steriod + ranged conal execute that she can use whenever the hell she wants.

That's thee most frustrating thing about her, I'm trading even with her, things are going ok but....o noes I oom and lol she's not.

fukimissHarambeOct 13, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Having a lot of skill match ups isn't a big deal. Irelia is similar, difference is Irelia can go freakin oom. Being manaless is not part of her power budget at all, she trades absolutely nothing for it. Garen's CDs are at least rather long, hell his ultimate used to have the CD of AoE CC ultimate's like Amumu, and I honestly don't think they should have ever buffed it since it's a trade off imo.

Slapping a mana bar on her though would make her awful though you are right. Perhaps they could let her Q cost be free since she needs her mobility, it's the fact that she has an AoE stun, a shield and a damage steriod + ranged conal execute that she can use whenever the hell she wants.

That's thee most frustrating thing about her, I'm trading even with her, things are going ok but....o noes I oom and lol she's not.

A few problems with what you just said, first riven's AOE stun is only in melee range from her, simply saying AOE stun isn't accurate. Cho'Gath has an AOE knock up with more versatility than riven's but hers is never complained about. Secondly riven's conal execute can't be used whenever the hell she wants. It is almost not even worth it to stop in the middle of a fight just to activate your ult the first time only to cast it again for the execute.

Not entirely defending riven but It annoys the shit out of me when people complain about the things that don't even make her a toxic champion

CroaninOct 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

A few problems with what you just said, first riven's AOE stun is only in melee range from her, simply saying AOE stun isn't accurate. Cho'Gath has an AOE knock up with more versatility than riven's but hers is never complained about. Secondly riven's conal execute can't be used whenever the hell she wants. It is almost not even worth it to stop in the middle of a fight just to activate your ult the first time only to cast it again for the execute.

Not entirely defending riven but It annoys the shit out of me when people complain about the things that don't even make her a toxic champion

I don't think she's a toxic champion. I just think she's broken cause it's utter BS that she doesn't have a resource for how loaded her kit is. Cho'gath can go oom, his Q is a skillshot with a channel time that can be dodged.

Riven can just Ultimate > Flash > Stun > Knock Up > Pwn your face. And yes her Stun is an AoE, it's not targeted she can stun multiple people if they are in range of her simple.

Laning against someone with two forms of hard CC, none of which being her ultimate (I mean seriously only a few tanks have that luxury) and a shield that's gated by no resource is extremely annoying. And to be fair it only started to tick me off as I started climbing and facing better Riven players.

notmebuthimOct 13, 20151 votes

Yasuo is the yolo champ. Well, second only to Vayne... "No Vayne, plz don't tumble into their whole team... oh crap"

AbyssphereOct 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Meh I disagree simply because Yasuo has a far harder to play effectively. Riven has a high skill cap but a rather low skill floor, therefore these toxic Riven mains are used to getting fed in lane.

I personally hate having Yasuo on my team because they almost always feed, and if they do get fed in lane they yolo into fights as if their kit has an easy to land knock up + AoE stun + ranged execute to 1v4. Not to mention they casually pick him mid when your team has no AP. For these reasons Yasuo mains tend to be more humble.

Riven and Vayne players are the worst. Vayne is like Riven in the reverse since she's an ADC with like 0 utility needs to be babysat completely and god forbid she loses lane on like thee worst laning champion it's her team's fault.

I would say trying to 1v4 and pick a champ even when it's clearly catastrophic from a team comp point of view are signs of cockiness rather than signs of being humble. You don't 1v4 unless you actually think "Lol yeah I'm fed I can outplay the enemy they're idiots I have mechanics".

EnchantéOct 13, 20151 votes

I agree on this lmao

Gregor GysiOct 12, 201510 votes

I know this funny picture you are basically quoting, however it's simply not reflecting the actual leaveratio which can be seen here: http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

The reason why Riven is one of those champions whose players tend to behave in average more negative than the average player is the divergence of expectations and results. Due to players like Boxbox, Faker and the like with their 'flashy plays' and the 'all-or-nothing' concept of most assassins and thus Riven players expect to do really well - and if things aren't going as wanted then there is a chance that this disappointment results in negative behaviour.

That being said I do think that this negative Riven player meme (which is grossly exaggerated and oversubscribed) results in negative behaviour towards Riven players as myself. For example I had a game in which I played against a 2 man premade - diamond (i think) Bard Jungle only main and some silver Garen. I played Riven and stomped that Garen and the game in general (25/6/16 or sth) while the bard did really, really well - considering he was Bard jgl (16/12/34). So we won and the game ended while I remained completely silent in all chat - but then in the post-game chat their Bard flamed me along the lines 'arrogant *** you think you are really good at this game, right? *** you *** *** **** I play bard and have way more skill".

Seeing how you enjoy playing Riven OP I suppose you know of similiar experiences. The thing is that once a certain characteristic gets linked to a champion through a meme, people tend to look out even more for toxic Rivens while they forget about those toxic Swains. And sometimes behave negatively towards Riven players due to their prejudices and judge even neutral statements negatively.

ShinTwistOct 13, 20151 votes

This man gets it.

Captain AishiOct 12, 20158 votes

what do riven, vayne and yasuo players have in common?

. . .

They're usually the same person! :P

seriously when someone has either riven, vayne or yasuo in their top3 champ mastery scores, they have all 3 as their top scores :P

fukimissHarambeOct 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captain Aishi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2khOQdzI,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-12T16:33:32.068+0000)

what do riven, vayne and yasuo players have in common?

. . .

They're usually the same person! :P

seriously when someone has either riven, vayne or yasuo in their top3 champ mastery scores, they have all 3 as their top scores :P

I have 30 k on riven but am absolute trash at yasuo and vayne :)

Rinky DinkyOct 12, 20156 votes

Just pinkward the ult you fucking noob

ZhireOct 13, 20156 votes

I hate being stereotyped as a toxic player every time I play Riven. I'm one of those chill Riven but every one still hates me because "Riven so op/broken/toxic/cancerous"

Chuck CharlesOct 12, 20154 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuL9q7tNmQ0

obligatory

ShinTwistOct 12, 20154 votes

I know there are a ton of nice riven players out there but riven has the single highest afk percentage in games... by a significant margin.

No she doesn't.

http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

Click "leave ratio", she isn't even in the top 5.

Shadow GilgameshOct 12, 20151 votes

Bump it up to month from week, she goes up to 2.

It's true she isn't "number one by a large margin" as OP claims, but she IS in the top 5 really REALLY consistently. I know personally Riven is the champ I expect is most likely to leave if they die to a level 2/3 gank or gives first blood.

ShinTwistOct 12, 20157 votes

Yeah, she does, but Riven is played a lot more than the others, almost every week she stays out of the top 5. Over the course of a month that equates to being higher on average.

An interesting sidenote here is that I've never seen an enemy Riven go AFK, the only AFK Riven I've played with was on my team, and that was because my team was treating them like complete human shit for doing poorly and playing Riven at the same time. The community, due in large part to the vocal circle jerk here on the boards, seems to think it's okay to abuse Riven players, and I think that might contribute to her high leave ratio. Sole cause? No, but it'd certainly inflate the number a bit.

Battlecast SonaOct 12, 20152 votes

It's just another case of people mistaking broken and overpowered. I think RIven's kit is broken, but you can still deal with her with smart play - her kit is just oppressive by design. Riven players mistake this for being OP, but if you don't snowball you generally have to work a lot harder for results, and people don't seem to like working for results in this game (especially in normals).

Ratchet FortuneOct 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

No she doesn't.

http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

Click "leave ratio", she isn't even in the top 5.

Look at the games played

Chuck CharlesOct 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No she doesn't.

http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

Click "leave ratio", she isn't even in the top 5.

uh if you click the last 30 days she is top 5. hell even in the last 7 days she is top 5.

she is also in the top 5 despite having more games than the other top 4 combined almost. she is very popular and still has one of the highest afk rates.

its well known that riven mains have a reputation for being toxic. that's not to say all are, but there are more toxic riven mains than there are for any other champion.

i remember in a jeremy GC video he said that riven mains are statistically 50% more likely to go afk than any other champion in the game.

ShinTwistOct 12, 20156 votes

The numbers updated after I posted. At the time she was 8th.

its well known that riven mains have a reputation for being toxic. that's not to say all are, but there are more toxic riven mains than there are for any other champion.

There's no cited source for this, a lot of it is just forum circlejerking.

i remember in a jeremy GC video he said that riven mains are statistically 50% more likely to go afk than any other champion in the game.

Then Jeremy was wrong, lol. I've heard it said by people like Stonewall and others that "Riven leaves half of her games", when the actual statistic, which by the way was outdated and misrepresented as it was posted, was 0.5%, 1 in /200/.

Having more games makes it a lot more likely your leave rate will go up as it's measured over time, as a side note, making it a lot easier for popular champions like Riven to get high leave rates over long periods such as a month.

warpenguin555Oct 12, 20154 votes

Same goes for Vayne. For some reason they both love to spam their mastery icon like we should be impressed. Why the hell would we?

RasCaelestisOct 13, 20151 votes

I once fought a Trundle that did it all game long. I was Nautilus, and even though I called support at the start of the game, a duo-queue pair threatened to AFK unless they got bot lane. I'd have gone top regardless, but would have picked someone that could fight a Trundle more effectively. They didn't say anything until after I had locked in, then were incredibly rude about it.

That great start to the game didn't get much better. Trundle spammed his Taunt and Tier-5 Mastery icon every time it was available. I get that he was playing a Troll, but this was a new level of trolling that I've not seen in a long time. Trundle's a natural counter to Naut, with his damage, sustain, and ult, so it was not going to be a fun lane regardless, but this guy made it a full nightmare...

Reformed DunniOct 12, 20154 votes

You can't give Riven a bad rep if you play her it doesn't automatically make you afk, Riven did do anything to anyone. Dick players are dick players

LadyRenlyOct 13, 20154 votes

Only reason Riven players "seem" toxic, alongside Vayne and Tryndamere is because it attracts the crowd of "google most op champ then spam them", who, if they browse any place like this, instalock and proceed to main Vayne and Riven because everyone says they are OP and broken.

The Sword SaintOct 13, 20154 votes

I always get annoyed when I'm not playing riven but someone else is and they are so bm that it embarrasses me by association.

Smitty ManjensenOct 12, 20152 votes

"Somewhat"

JoshehehOct 12, 20152 votes

I think the thing I hate most about riven is that she is always 100% determined to snowball. You can be winning lane against Riven and she will still just keep trying to kill you and, sure, maybe she dies every time, but its not even worth it and just annoying.

Or if the Riven is on my team she'll just roam and try to steal kills. and die.

gg git diffOct 13, 20152 votes

Statistically, you’re right.

http://i.imgur.com/kc0yZ1j.png

Colgate GatorOct 13, 20152 votes

At this point it's like RIven has a second passive that reads. "This Champion is so edgy she has a 50% chance of ragequitting your match, thread with care."

OelykOct 13, 20151 votes

So much Hate for the melee gapclosing Dps gods... I main Jayce... I'll Stfu...

Only Play DariusOct 13, 20151 votes

Same with Fiora's player base

Despite rework it still consist of toxic fucks who will overextend all day and threaten to AFK if you don't gank them in the next 3 minutes

KnighRriderOct 13, 20151 votes

I agree there is a problem with the Riven player base. Although I can't remember the last time i played with an afk Riven and I've only seen a few toxic ones.. But I assume its bad because everyone says it is xD She also has this rep in low elo that makes EVERYONE think shes the most op broken champ in the game because she does lots of dmg fast(Not Katarina Annie Leblanc or anything...). I used to main her but she got boring and it was too easy to counter her. I have had a LOT toxic Vayne's though... and some Yasuo xD

notmebuthimOct 13, 20151 votes

I just dislike how they spam taunt/laugh (even though I don't react...) Her being incredibly mobile and squirmy is annoying, but what ever.

ActinOct 13, 20151 votes

Riven, Vayne, Fizz, yasuo, and Udyr players are some of the biggest a holes in this entire community.

Espy PsycheOct 14, 20151 votes

Honestly I think slapping a mana bar on her would balance her. She'd just rush a Manamune like Jayce and Yorick, but she would be weaker early game because of having to rush the Manamune. Late game it might actually buff her, since she'll have the bonus AD from the Manamune and the on-hit mana blast off Muramana.