Riot wants thornmail to only be good with lots of armor? Fine, here's a thornmail rework idea

Pyrithegethon·Aug 12, 2016·9 votes·688 views

Cost is the same as live with the armor being slightly reduced. Its passive is changed to this:

Enemy auto attacks to this target take damage equal to 10%(+10% every 60-80 bonus armor, max 40% more) of the damage they would have dealt to their target before resistances as magic damage.

You can't just buy this item and be good like old Thornmail and it isn't useless without 500+ armor like current thornmail. This version of thornmail would be a piss poor rush(unless you're Rammus) and isn't truly good until 120-160 bonus armor making it a great 3rd or 4th item. The cap is there so that we don't have a malphite with 600 armor and 2k health have adcs 2 shot themselves on him(it?).

12 Comments

DepártAug 12, 20166 votes

It can't be in a strong state because it's unhealthy for tanks to output enough damage to have an adc kill themselves purely for being hit.

It counteracts the tanks job by removing the incentive to hit the tank, no carry is going to want to suicide on the tank

SpoofghoulAug 12, 20164 votes

but thats not the tanks job though

being hit isn't anyone's job . . . not even the tanks

As a tank you want to be a nuisance by disrupting your opponent and sitting on their face displacing them or stunning them

Meanwhile you opponent would like to deal with you but they cannot really do that because you are too tanky or othwerwise not a good target because of for example the thornmail

As a tank you are a disruptor not a wall of meat, thats just to make it harder to get rid of you while you disrupt them because your utility doesnt scale anyway so you dont need damage and therefor building defense is the best way

MunchCrunchLunchAug 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It can't be in a strong state because it's unhealthy for tanks to output enough damage to have an adc kill themselves purely for being hit.

It counteracts the tanks job by removing the incentive to hit the tank, no carry is going to want to suicide on the tank

but why the fuck are adc's focusing tanks. currently you won't fucking kill yourself if you had 2% lifesteal. because the item does no fucking damage. a bt should allow u to not take damage. not a fucking tier 2 mastery point.

DepártAug 12, 20162 votes

One thing I can't stand is way over exaggerated points, with the current weak thornmail, it takes well over 15% lifesteal to outheal it against the tank, simply because you lifesteal so little against tanks that aren't massively behind.

Also, adc's don't "focus" tanks, a good adc will hit what's in front of them until given the opportunity to safely damage a more priority target.

If you bitch at an adc for hitting a tank, you may as well play bots until you learn better.

GuardAbuseAug 12, 20161 votes

I see where you're coming from, however I'm also a firm believer in itemization as conuterplay. Adcs should be forced to counterplay that item by building lifesteal + mr (since thornmail does magic dmg for those who didn't know). Since most games those are good stats to have (unless it's a full ad team feelsbadman), the items are still useful in other ways, but the tank doesn't feel helpless against the adc.

TheOvermindAug 12, 20162 votes

I've been saying this since forever ... ( make it 15% + 5% for every 100 armor )

http://www.gifwave.com/media/61700_the-office-thank-you-michael-scott-steve-carell.gif

MunchCrunchLunchAug 12, 20161 votes

its not even good on armo stacking tanks. even malphite. currently its just rammus. because most of the damage coems from his W.

Maximum MordeAug 12, 20162 votes

You can do a troll annie build too. Zhonyas, Ninja Tabis, Thornmail for your armor items, then something like Roa, Rylais and whatever

It Hertz When IPAug 12, 20161 votes

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

YumaS2AstralAug 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

its not even good on armo stacking tanks. even malphite. currently its just rammus. because most of the damage coems from his W.

It is still good on Malphite because of his W armor bonus. However, it is situtional. Malphite will not always need it because he usually gets enough damage to deal with enemy ADCs without Thornmail. It can be a good purchase if the enemy ADC is too overbearing, though (ex: Vayne) or if there is more than one auto-reliant enemy (ex: Master Yi)

SeenanAug 12, 20161 votes

Thornmail theoretically is respectfully 'countered' by Maw and/or Mercurial because of the slight lifesteal and magic resistance cutting down the damage.

Would it hurt to make it do true damage if it's gonna stay in this state?

Maximum MordeAug 12, 20161 votes

At this point they should just delete it and adjust Rammus and sort of Malphite accordingly. It's literally that trash now.