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No FUCKING way ezreal and sona are playable against

RankOneUganda··39 votes·4,176 views

all I had to say. fuck this bottom lane. and fuck the preseason. ezreal is fucking bullshit. Qd my fucking mid laner for 1100 damage with 5 items.

fucking veigar ult levels of damage with a 1k range skillshot.

META FORCING has to stop. just because ezreal wasn't meta for few months. doesn't mean we have to deal with this fucking bullshit . and for Sona. she has been meta for 3 straight years.

mid lane has 0 power. top lane has -1 power. its really all bot lane. nothing else matters. Ezreal Q does 115 damage at LEVEL 1. thats more than 1/5th the health of an adc at level 1.

58 Comments

EternalShock19 votes

"wait for preseason before we fixed ranged champs"

"its preseason changes are still happening wait a bit bro"

RankOneUganda6 votes

{quoted}

"wait for preseason before we fixed ranged champs"

"its preseason changes are still happening wait a bit bro"

literally. delete top lane and mid lane from the game. just delete them. pick rammus/shyvanna/xin zhao. ezreal sona and you win almost every game

just delete mid and top. these roles are fucking worthless. might as well just play maokai mid when Sona does more damage than your mid laner.

SH Azykan2 votes

so just play sona mid :P

Demosthentine13 votes

You are overreacting. Yes, Ezreal is strong right now, but it's not grounds for a temper tantrum, which is what you are having right now. I get your pissed, and I agree with you, but there are better, and more mature ways to express your emotions.

EternalShock1 votes

[deleted]

Demosthentine1 votes

I was agreeing with you. Preseason is upon us, and some things are rather strong. I was not dissing you, merely the one who started this lovely discussion thread.

k wìx14 votes

Yea, Ezreal should really be looked at - I have to ban him every game. Twitch and Vayne are allowed back into my games. Don't worry, I strongly feel Riot will adjust him.

I think Viegs is fine right now - I like how Mages have stronger late-game carry potential - shit, that's one of the best things that Runes Reforged brought to the game, in my opinion.

I don't think they are trying to force metas, fyi. Runes has an explosion of possible changes, players wont have the system completely perfected for at least a few months.

I think Sona is overtuned with some of the new runes, but I don't think she's been OP for that long, she's easy to play, and easy to win with, but any good player who knows how to exploit her weaknesses can triumph. I feel Janna was a much bigger problem, and now she's in a BIT of a healthier spot.

I also disagree with your sentiment that Top and Mid don't matter - I get carried by them all the time. That being said, I concede that Jungle and Bot have the majority of the power right now. I'm not sure how you stop that though, its where 3 out of the 5 players exist, so its going to be tilted that way to some extent.

Swarovsko1 votes

I don't think they are trying to force metas, fyi. Runes has an explosion of possible changes, players wont have the system completely perfected for at least a few months

It's not about runes making Ezreal retarded it's Riot who overbuffed his ass because he had 45% win rate in a meta where he didn't fit.

And Sona is the generalist of enchanters. She's what you call "jack of all trades master of none" so she might not be overtuned but she for sure has real problems and deserves a VGU as much as Nunu does.

DeusVult1 votes

they didnt directly buff him tho. Its the new runes that allow him to do stupid things, like score a shit ton of extra gold on a long range skillshot, something that no one else can do.

As to the 1100 dmg Q, the only reason that I could see that happen is if Ez was very fed because of kills+farm+klepto, and your mid was behind, take into account that almost all roles are running with 9 less armor than they were before, and we can start to see the problem

Swarovsko1 votes

They did directly buff him. In 7.17 they increased the Q ratio and in 7.15 they reduced Q cooldown at early ranks.

Sp33d Zer01 votes

2 back to back buffs + a buff to his core item in Manamune. They absolutely directly buffed him.

Pika3102 votes

{quoted}

And Sona is the generalist of enchanters. She's what you call "jack of all trades master of none" so she might not be overtuned but she for sure has real problems and deserves a VGU as much as Nunu does.

Either that or a full revert to pre-4.13. Hell, Rito should just give us the revert anyways, since we're gonna end up waiting another year or 2 for that VGU. (Here's hoping it isn't another failed shitfest like the last 2)

Swarovsko1 votes

Eh sadly I wasn't playing in s4 so I don't know about that Sona... but many people told me she had a niche was unique because she actually had auras. I started maining Sona in s5, she was one my first champions.

Sp33d Zer01 votes

Sona back then was even more Binary and uninteresting. You were literally just a walking aura bot, with nothing fun or interesting going on with the area around you like she has now.

Pika3103 votes

That's literally ass-backwards. Pre-4.13 Sona was probably THE MOST FUCKING AGGRESSIVE support in the game. The "aura bot" lie was a 100% fabrication that Rito created to excuse TURNING HER INTO a 1-dimensional support. Sona had SIGNIFICANTLY higher damage numbers pre-4.13 and actually had to manage her cooldowns. Literally ZERO players silver+ would be caught dead just fucking "aura botting" like you just propagandized.

"level R, spam Q. level R spam Q." That's Sona today, pre-4.13 had EXPONENTIALLY more decision making than "spam Q off cooldown." It was patch 4.13 that made Sona "binary" as you put it and then again in patch 6.14 that compounded the issue even further. Pre-4.13 Sona was NOT binary.

Pika3102 votes

There was nothing "niche" about pre-4.13 Sona. She was played as a sustain support, as a slightly-weaker version of Nami, who was a top pick at that time. Which was a direct result of patch 3.14, which Sona was a top-tier pick before. Hell, before the patch 3.8 nerfs, she was arguably the strongest support next to Thresh. Pre-4.13 is also the last time Sona has ever been a competitively viable pick.

I pity you for never seeing Sona when she was a playable character... Patch 4.13 turned her into a meme: #BetterNerfSona

Every Sona player has quit playing her or LoL entirely because of patch 4.13. There are no legit Sona players left, just delusional rookies that don't want to admit they're trolling by picking her.

Provengreil1 votes

I didn't pick her up until the DJ skin came out...been rocking her ever since.

Pika3101 votes

Interesting you should say that, because DJ has the lowest profit number of any ultimate skin as a direct result of patch 4.13. Even despite Rito not offering a release discount, despite doing so for Spirit Guard Udyr and Pulsefire Ezreal.

The majority of Sona players felt no reason to buy it for a champion Rito didn't allow them to play. A few players bought it in hope Rito would revert patch 4.13, but ended up refunding it in the end because to this day, that revert has still yet to arrive.

Provengreil1 votes

I didn't even know what she felt like, I just thought the skin was cool and made her really fun to play. Still do.

NTrumpWeTrust9 votes

just dodge all his virtually no mana cost Qs every 2 seconds and you'll be fine. Silver logic

RankOneUganda7 votes

{quoted}

just dodge all his virtually no mana cost Qs every 2 seconds and you'll be fine. Silver logic

with the removal of base MR his R hits for 400-700 damage.

SociopathFriend7 votes

and for Sona. she has been meta for 3 straight years.

Is that so?

Elewd6 votes

Sona hasn't been meta for a while, even during the ardent meta janna lulu and Nami were better picks than her. she just abuses these new runes so hard.

Fairyfleur3 votes

She was absolute garbage when kill lanes were meta too because of how low her health and defensive stats are early on.

Azadethe2 votes

She's totally Meta. I was around 70% with her in Season 7. And I didn't always rush an Ardent. I prefer rushing an Iceborne, which will be fun with transcendence....

Elewd2 votes

she had as low of a pickrate as the mage supports like brand annie and vel'koz during the ardent meta, she wasn't a meta champion at all. just because YOU did really well with her doesn't mean she was meta.

Azadethe2 votes

During Season 7, Sona's pick rate was 13%.Her Win rate was 55-53%.

BeatzBoyFTW6 votes

Sona meta for 3 straight years?

IIRC, didn't everyone stated that Sona sucks due to the fact that she's squishy & easily focused down?

Remlap12234 votes

Apparently when she isn't nerfed to the point where it becomes a meme she's meta.

Yet I have yet to see her in pro play because she's an inferior Nami.

Wait, didn't fishtits just get a pro skin? Oh that's right.

I'm not bagging on Nami, she's my favorite support and I think she's very balanced right now. But if she's balanced and Sona is an inferior version... what does 2+2 equal again?

Fairyfleur2 votes

You're ruining the script!!111!!1

Azadethe4 votes

First, they are laneable. Second stop cussing. Third: it's not even that strong of a match up, although people who get beat up by it will claim it is.

it's called staying behind minions, and not letting Ez Q you. Instead, farm, and stay safe. He starves. You get bigger. Jungler comes and wipes Ez and Sona. P.S. That's Ez's whole game..... large hits in return for single target. He's always hit 115 at level 1.

AetherArising7 votes

{quoted}

First, they are laneable. Second stop cussing. Third: it's not even that strong of a match up, although people who get beat up by it will claim it is.

it's called staying behind minions, and not letting Ez Q you. Instead, farm, and stay safe. He starves. You get bigger. Jungler comes and wipes Ez and Sona. P.S. That's Ez's whole game..... large hits in return for single target. He's always hit 115 at level 1.

Excuse me while i just hide behind a temporary shield, having to forfeit my CSing in exchange for simply not dying level 1. And once those minions are gone, then what? Ezreal Q is one of the heaviest hitting skillshots in botlane, and it is also one of the lowest cooldowns. Match that with the fact he usually builds SOME cdr, though anyone who builds any items this meta does i suppose.

I appreciate the idea but you clearly are just white-knighting for riot. You main jungle, however. I can't say that your argument can be taken with anything less than a heaping pile of salt.

The idea of hiding under tower, behind minions, all of that is pretty much gone for good. With the meta of CC and Peel supports like Thresh, Blitz, Leona, etc. you can't farm and stay at an angle where you wont be an easy target. If you're not ahead by a lot, Ezreal and a good support will wipe you. Heaven forbid if it's a Sona, because the Q poke will render you useless very quickly

Let me explain.

For this example, i'll say you have a perfect wave of about 6 minions. 3 melee, 3 ranged, making their "=" shape infront of you. If both your side and their side are level 3, aka "Early game" but still having the whole kit to their disposal, then ezreal and his support will win.

If you're in the middle of the lane, where CS meets, chances are your front waves of CS are already dying slowly. A few AA's from ezreal and the support will clear that, and if you were ballsy enough to step close and CS yourself, that's a mistake. You'll take poke, and possibly an all-in if you're lower health than them. If you don't go in to CS, you will miss out on gold, and then he will break through your enchanter wave too.

If all this happens before a 2nd wave, you're going to take poke. Overall, you'll probably be down a hundred gold or so regardless of if you die or not, since early game it's somewhat difficult to farm under tower as the average ADC. This allows him to powerspike harder and faster than you. In the long haul, he'll eventually beat you if not already.

Now let's say you, the adc, back off from the wave like a smart boi. If that's the case, he will free-farm for a bit and eventually try to reset the wave, hoping to freeze and screw you out of your game. If he has a tank-hook support like Thresh, Naut, or Blitz then even tower isnt safe and you will have to back up past tower, allowing him to damage your turret as well as get more gold.

Assuming you backed off and your jungler showed up, you are no longer in the position to follow up on his gank. Even if he managed to catch Ez and his support off-guard, as long as you're behind turret, he will lose the gank. Why? Because he has his E, Arcane Shift. It's a longer range flash on a 22-ish sec cooldown if memory serves, which costs mana. He can escape to his tower, or even snatch the kill with an all-in before leaving. Remember, supports are BRUTAL this season, and most of them can lock a person down long enough for a skilled Ez to kill.

There is really no way to deal with ezreal. Hiding behind minions is futile as is practically every other way to "win" against him during overbuffs.

Ezreal is one of those champs that's either completely useless, or oppressive enough to make you lose games by just existing

Pika3104 votes

Wow, a 5-item Ezreal is doing damage? No way. (sarcasm)

How does this thread even have upvotes? I'm not defending Ezreal, but there are nth other threads with REAL arguments. And Sona is just randomly thrown in with no context? She hasn't even been playable since 4.13, let alone "meta." She's legitimately been a troll pick in pro play ever since 4.13:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUhafghUzGc

ADC5LUT3 votes

Lol wah wah Ez so op. Meanwhile MF with just her double up will do 1/3rd your hp at level 3, 50% at level 5 and 70% at level 8. Have fun laning against MF + any non-passive support. That shit is actual cancer.

egoSniper1 votes

Try facing her with Soraka at her back too, especially since now she can take that rune that gives her manaless double-ups on a regular basis.

She's always been a lane bully, it's just annoying that she is a lane bully who snowballs into a team-deletion nasty.

Colton1472 votes

Draven is allowed to do that much damage at level 1, but Ezreal can't?

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Difficult or not, Draven should not be able to chunk you at level 1.

Infernape1 votes

It's not League if Ezreal isn't being a massive fucking nuisance.

Troll for Trump1 votes

I really wish they would change sona's Q so it actually took skill to land..

Pika3102 votes

Yes. Let's just ignore the fact is has 550 effective range and the unmatched lowest bases of any damage spell for the entire support class.

You realize if it were a skillshot, it would literally need its bases doubled. Which I'm fine with. Let's fucking do it.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Where are you getting 550? LolWiki says 850.

It also does not have the lowest base dmg for the entire support class, because of how it'll track two targets, rather than just going for one. It's not like an AoE either, where it's limited to a certain area, it's more like a cloud around her. Also effectively increases dmg through aria and AA.

Yes, if it's a skillshot, that'd be great. Make it do more damage. But jesus give some counterplay.

It has the same problem with stuff like Panth Q or Teemo Q, where they just do it out of range. It's not as bad with Sona, but they all still share the same problem with no counterplay.

Pika3101 votes

Notice the part where Hymn says it "prioritizes enemy champions." Fact is it only prioritizes champions within Sona's basic attack range (550 units.) Hence it's "effective range" since it'll hit minions > champions if they're over 550 units away. This is a "buff" they made to Sona in season 3, which **still **exists today. Before that change, it only prioritized within something like 525 units, so players were walking up to auto attack and then Hymn would miss cause her autos had longer range than Hymn's prioritization range.

Furthermore, Hymn's full range is 700 units, not 850. The wiki was updated incorrectly when the shadow nerfs (plural) in patch 4.13 & 4.16, that lowered its range by 150 units were reverted in 4.17.

I've personally asked Rito multiple times to clarify these facts on her champion page, but it's always the same run around. "We have more important work to do. Many champion pages are outdated and lacking information, but maybe it'll be fixed in 3 months." I come back 3 months later to ask why her page still hasn't been fixed and they repeat the same thing all over.

After the blue essence fiasco, is it really all that surprising that Rito doesn't inform players of pertinent info?

Troll for Trump1 votes

Notice the part where Hymn says it "prioritizes enemy champions." Fact is it only prioritizes champions within Sona's basic attack range (550 units.) Hence it's "effective range" since it'll hit minions > champions if they're over 550 units away.

Ok where are you getting this from

Furthermore, Hymn's full range is 700 units, not 850. The wiki was updated incorrectly when the shadow nerfs (plural) in patch 4.13 & 4.16, that lowered its range by 150 units were reverted in 4.17.

If the nerfs were reverted, doesn't that mean it's back to 850?

Pre patch 4.13/4.16 range = 850 Shadow nerfs 4.13/4.16 range = 700 Post 4.13/4.16 range = revert = 850

Am I missing something here?

Pika3101 votes

Pre-patch 4.13 = 700 Shadow nerf range = -150 (550) Revert = +150 (700)

That's what you're missing. Her range has never been 850, but the wiki failed to note it'd been shadown nerfed to 550 and mistakenly claimed 150 was added to her actual range.

On a related note, Sona's champion page incorrectly lists Hymn's range as 825, which idk where the fuck they're getting that number from:

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/Sona/

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sona

Shouldn't the fact that the wiki and League's own site (both of which are updated directly by Rito) don't have matching numbers, be inherent proof that something's wrong? At least one of these is guaranteed wrong, they're different values, both listed by Rito employees. It's not even a stretch that both are wrong.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Are you sure? Because the wiki says on patch 4.17, Sona's Q range got changed BACK to 850. They recognized that it was nerfed to 700, but also stated that it got reverted to the intended 850. Can you get proof of the 700?

Also, Champ page pls

Pika3101 votes

So you trust the wiki more than the League Site itself? That speaks pretty clearly that League's community doesn't trust Rito to give them the correct info. Which is ironic considering the wiki is also updated directly by Rito.

The problem with shadow nerfs is that they're hidden from patches note. Also, Rito has deleted all of their patch notes before 3.13, so it's impossible to pinpoint the patch where it's priority range was increased to 550 units.

As for proof that it's 700 range:

https://www.google.com/search?q=hymn+of+valor+range+700&oq=hymn+of+valor+range+700&aqs=chrome..69i57.5707j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=523735

http://forums.eune.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=310775

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1coily/sona_q_range_indicator_vs_maximum_range/

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/954437-league-of-legends/61947095?page=3

As you can see, there is A LOT of proof of Hymn of Valor's actual range, but I told you. The wiki was mistakenly altered incorrectly and has listed an incorrect value for so long, most players don't know what Sona's real range is.

I have DEMANDED Rito fix this clerical error, but they keep giving me the same fucking excuses. "Changes to the game take a while and we're too busy to do this." Then I say,"It's not a change to the game, it's literally just a mis-written stats page. Literally anyone at your company could fix it in under 5 minutes." Which is always followed with,"Many champion and wiki pages are out of date and incomplete or with faulty data. This is not a priority and we may get around to fixing them in a few months." So I come back in a few months and we have the same 'conversation' all over.

[zombie-brand-clap]

Troll for Trump1 votes

But dude,t hese are all from 4-5 years ago

Pika3101 votes

Your point being? Sona's Q range has never changed. You can scour her history yourself, you won't find anything:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sona/History

The only time it has ever changed were the shadow nerfs in 4.13 and 4.16. They fessed up to those and Rito specifically stated they "reverted" them in 4.17, returning her Q to its "original" value. As you can clearly see, it's "original" value is 700 and thusly its current value is 700. It was 550 in 4.16 and they added +150 in 4.17. The wiki was incorrectly updated without taking 4.16's range into consideration.

Troll for Trump1 votes

I just really think the sona mains would be protesting if that were the case.

Pika3101 votes

We did protest. Why do you think her range was reverted to its **original **value?

Here's one of the early posts when players started to realize she'd been shadow-nerfed. Perhaps it was 4.15 rather than 4.16, perhaps she lost range in both, it's literally impossible to track shadow nerfs. Because they are shadow nerfs.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/VjfZBwEV-fearless-after-giving-the-sona-rework-some-time-to-sink-in?comment=000c0005

Here's a thread calling out Fearless on shadow-nerfing Sona. His admittance (finally) that it occured, but his (expected) denial that it was "intentional." Just as most of Rito's failures are never "intentional." How convenient.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/JEfmrO1L-so-is-no-rioter-going-to-come-forward-about-the-decrease-in-sonas-q-range-to-650-from-700?comment=00050001

Also, note that even 3 years ago, the community was already demanding Rito revert Sona and we're still demanding it today:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/JEfmrO1L-so-is-no-rioter-going-to-come-forward-about-the-decrease-in-sonas-q-range-to-650-from-700?comment=00020002

Once again, Fearless in a separate thread admitting to the shadow nerfs, but (once again) denying they were "intentional." Also coincidentally, this was the very last time Fearless have addressed the Sona problem. Note how he claims "Sona is not forgotten" and then he immediately abandoned her and she was forgotten for 2 years.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/2n8M8JVj-riot-fearless-what-was-sona-made-for

hi ìm groot1 votes

Have lost every lane phase against ezreal, only to win every game against one when I play ADC. Champ might get alot out of klepto and deal alot of damage with his Q but he still doesnt fill the adc role as well as alot of higher dmg adc's. He's gotta close out a game fast or simply be outscaled.

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