Aatrox needs only 2 nerfs

Moody P·May 30, 2019·30 votes·11,219 views

Pull back on his hotfix buffs. Aatrox has 38 armor at level 1 which is too high for a champion who deals so much damage at a distance and can reliably whittle opponents down without committing to a short range trade, especially when Aatrox ramps up into a sustain beast. If an opponent gets to him early they should be allowed to make more damage stick. Lower it to 33 and he will be fine.

Make R's healing bonuses apply to self healing only. Its very unreasonable how borderline unkillable he becomes without landing his Qs simply by having a healer teammate.

I have played as Aatrox more than against since his changes and it is very silly how effective I was able to be even if I was behind.

24 Comments

R107 GamesMay 30, 201912 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Yzy2IPxj,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-30T10:50:57.385+0000)

Pull back on his hotfix buffs. Aatrox has 38 armor at level 1 which is too high for a champion who deals so much damage at a distance and can reliably whittle opponents down without committing to a short range trade, especially when Aatrox ramps up into a sustain beast. If an opponent gets to him early they should be allowed to make more damage stick. Lower it to 33 and he will be fine.

I disagree; Aatrox is a juggernaut, he needs juggernaught stats to fit his class. The hotfix buffs(more damage and armour) helped him deal with opponents that simply had to get in melee range of him to hard counter him, now he has more power to fight back and defend himself.

Make R's healing bonuses apply to self healing only. Its very unreasonable how borderline unkillable he becomes without landing his Qs simply by having a healer teammate.

I agree with this; the R change makes him unstoppable when paired with soraka, yuumi etc,.

I have played as Aatrox more than against since his changes and it is very silly how effective I was able to be even if I was behind.

I believe players just need to learn how to play against him. He is extremely predictable and you learn his limits, weaknesses and strengths when you play against him often. I also heard his winrate has gone down. I'd give it a few more weeks before concluding on nerfs

ZeyphelMay 30, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Yzy2IPxj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-30T12:06:07.859+0000)

I disagree; Aatrox is a juggernaut, he needs juggernaught stats to fit his class. The hotfix buffs(more damage and armour) helped him deal with opponents that simply had to get in melee range of him to hard counter him, now he has more power to fight back and defend himself.

People won't understand that. They feel like if they can't destroy him in seconds, then it is bad design.

I agree with this; the R change makes him unstoppable when paired with soraka, yuumi etc,.

Definitely something that should be fixed.

I believe players just need to learn how to play against him. He is extremely predictable and you learn his limits, weaknesses and strengths when you play against him often. I also heard his winrate has gone down. I'd give it a few more weeks before concluding on nerfs.

Unfortunately, people were used to beat him in lane without doing anything at all and without having to worry about being hitted by him. Changing their mentaility would be a challenge.

Also, some people are vague to learn. Therefore they prefer to complain because they think that if the champion gets nerfed, then they don't need to learn to play against him.

FiveAneurysmsMay 30, 20192 votes

{quoted}

People won't understand that. They feel like if they can't destroy him in seconds, then it is bad design.

Definitely something that should be fixed.

Unfortunately, people were used to beat him in lane without doing anything at all and without having to worry about being hitted by him. Changing their mentaility would be a challenge.

Also, some people are vague to learn. Therefore they prefer to complain because they think that if the champion gets nerfed, then they don't need to learn to play against him.

As someone who gets destroyed by Aatrox and hates him, any tips you an give or?

Z3SleeperMay 31, 20192 votes

I gotchu fam.

His level 1 is hot garbage. If you're playing a champion with any modicum of a level 1 presence you can easily punish him the moment his Q is on cooldown and for some others with slightly better early's can just run in on him and outplay the Q3 sweetspot while eating Q1 and Q2 sourspots. (btw I'm talking like, Nasus levels of level 1 presence, it's a pretty damn low bar).
Sorta like 1 on this list. His Q has a long af cooldown early on (14s level 1, 12 level 4). Feel free to zone/punish/w.e u want while he waits for it to come back.
If you see him take a weeb sword stance I advise not getting near him unless you've got the damage to trade with it and his abilities are on CD. That's when his passive is ready. Wait til he uses it on a minion otherwise (he has to AA to last hit since Q has a huge cooldown early).
If you can afford to delay your build a bit, GW is godlike against him (and only costs 800g for ADs).
His E cooldown is fairly long early levels as well. If he ever uses it those next 9 seconds try to counter attack (ofc don't run into Q3 though).

That's about all I got for now.

ZeyphelMay 31, 20191 votes

I can add you and go into more details depending on the matchup.

Moody PMay 30, 20196 votes

Other juggernauts don't have 38 armor. And they generally do not have the range OR sustain that AATROX does

RagnaveilMay 30, 20193 votes

Uh...Darius? He has 39 armor. He also gets a missing hp heal by hitting people with Q's edge (just like how hitting the spots on Aatrox's Q's would give better damage and healing). Garen: 36 but has a regen passive that ramps up at level 11. And now new Morde will have range and sustain to rival Aatrox, so this statement seems pointless per say.

HateDaddyMay 30, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Uh...Darius? He has 39 armor. He also gets a missing hp heal by hitting people with Q's edge (just like how hitting the spots on Aatrox's Q's would give better damage and healing). Garen: 36 but has a regen passive that ramps up at level 11. And now new Morde will have range and sustain to rival Aatrox, so this statement seems pointless per say.

Darius also uses mana, isn’t mobile, and has a longer charge time on his Q.

Garen isn’t mobile, and is entirely melee

U R Good At GameMay 30, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Darius also uses mana, isn’t mobile, and has a longer charge time on his Q.

Garen isn’t mobile, and is entirely melee

I mean but to be fair darius pull is longer range than trox jump so technically about the same total distance is covered. The CD depends on how long aatrox holds his charges for. If he uses them all back to back Darius actually has lower CD. Even then, all 3 casts when you factor in atk ratios do roughly the same damage as darius q with his baked in armor pen but way less healing w/o ult. So the big difference here is do you want all the damage at one time or dps?

RagnaveilMay 30, 20193 votes

Ok, and Darius can straight up kill Aatrox since Aatrox has to kill him for a revive. The matchup was heavy Aatrox pre rework because you could dick his ult by popping R before his lands. Now its a bit more Darius favored 6+. If you pull him after Q2, idk what else to convince you otherwise on that (cuz Q3 sure as hell is gonna follow after).

Aatrox AirlinesMay 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Ok, and Darius can straight up kill Aatrox since Aatrox has to kill him for a revive. The matchup was heavy Aatrox pre rework because you could dick his ult by popping R before his lands. Now its a bit more Darius favored 6+. If you pull him after Q2, idk what else to convince you otherwise on that (cuz Q3 sure as hell is gonna follow after).

phase rush aatrox is absolutely unbeatable by darius, tested in over 30 games

NyarlathοtepMay 31, 20191 votes

Darius also uses mana, isn’t mobile, and has a longer charge time on his Q.

His mana costs are so low you cant go oom before you need to recall for items. Aatrox is hardly more mobile until late game. I would say the time for q is about the same however darius can move freely during the animation.

And garen has his w for passive resistances. Oh and damage reduction as an active.

Z3SleeperMay 31, 20192 votes

Idk Moody I seriously have never ever had an issue laning vs Aatrox. My only problems with him come from post-laning interactions such as his nutty heal scaling on his ult and yeah the ally healing thing.

His damage/tankiness/1v1 potential has never been an issue in my experience.

Big DigletJun 4, 20191 votes

His damage/tankiness/1v1 potential has never been an issue in my experience.

I agree, my problem is that he's just a better version of Renekton. Obviously he's vulnerable levels 1-3 but his abilities allow him to farm through it easily. There isn't really a trade off for him, whereas champions like Renekton, Nasus, etc have obvious points in the game where you can just shit on them given the right champion. Aatrox doesn't have a point like that IMO.

SalronMay 30, 20194 votes

https://plays.tv/video/5cea386b8e1cc753fe/can-we-get-executioners- Aatrox with spirit visage pops ult and gets a 1.7k heal off his allied lux's redemption lul

ZackTheWaffleManMay 30, 20194 votes

Moody P post: is something I agree with

me, who is too lazy to link images:

surprised pikachu face

Anchorit WracajMay 30, 20192 votes

Aatrox need passive nerf back to 5-10% from 5-12%. He need juggernaut stats.Just pull back his enormous damage. Stop making juggernauts into bruisers.Start nerfing damage,not durability.We already have to much damage in game.

CaptainOrbMay 30, 20191 votes

I agree for the R nerf about healing. But I think that the most important thing to do is to fix his Q's CD bug. The cooldown must start after the window cast, and not on the cast (whereas it works well for the Q3). Really I do not understand why they still don't fix it. I do not understand why nobody notice it.

5050BSMay 30, 20191 votes

Ya Iv seen a Aatrox + yuumi that 1v9 (well I guess it really 2v8) but it was SICK

Starboy XMay 30, 20191 votes

Just the self healing thing his base stats are fine

Hemulen MagiMay 31, 20191 votes

Is 51% winrate even nerf-worthy? If we rotate through nerfing all of the melee top laners, we'll be in a situation where melee champions have no lane to go to. In the short term, Riven, Jax, and Renekton would just be played more if Aatrox is nerfed.

There is a pretty decent top lane meta right now so we should be careful not to destroy it. As an outside observer, I see a pretty diverse top lane roster right now with a good variety of viable champions. I don't think Aatrox is acting as a 'gatekeeper' preventing many other picks, so that's a good thing. Also Aatrox will always have a slightly inflated ban rate simply because he's alphabetically the first champion in the list and obvious to click when people choose a ban at the last second.

I guess his ban rate is pretty high... How about a compromise where Aatrox just loses some ult healing to start with and one or two of the more obnoxious top lane influences are removed. For example, Neeko could be kicked out of top lane and shifted to become a healthier playstyle as an AP on-hit marksman bottom laner. Heimerdinger would also be healthier shifted out of top lane and buffed in healthier mid + bot roles. To encourage healthier AP representatives in top lane, Riot can release a melee-only AP brawler with the Mordekaiser rework, and that item could be used by AP melee top laners like Mordekaiser, Cho'gath, Rumble, and maybe top lane brawling tanks like Gragas, Galio, and Zac.

Madsin25May 31, 20191 votes

Top laners do have a place, it is called top lane, and it is why no other champions can go to this lane.

You are sadly mistaken if you think you can take anybody top lane, because you can't.

Super mobile ultra sustain insane tankiness one shot rotations is the only thing that thrives in top lane.

Hemulen MagiMay 31, 20191 votes

I never said every champion can/should go top lane... I said the current meta has a pretty diverse top lane pool, but I thought I was clear that I think top lane should cater to melee (or really any beefy frontliners champions Urgot ). There is currently a great deal of variety in frontliner tanks and fighters thriving in top lane, which is a top lane meta that I approve of. I would also like to see more AP melee/brawler champions in top lane like Chogath Mordekaiser Rumble Gragas .

I don't think that ranged top laners should ever be the dominant picks in top lane because I see top lane as the primary position for frontliners to go, just as I see bottom lane carry as the primary position for squishy backliners to go. I wouldn't want to see Yasuo and Mordekaiser dominating bottom lane and causing a meta where they often cheese the lane and snowball out of control. I equally don't want to see ranged laners dominating top lane and creating an uninteractive/one-sided lane experience against melee champions. I see you mostly play ranged champions in top lane so I doubt we can find common ground.

I don't think the meta should be strictly enforced, but champions like Lissandra, who just poke and disengage vs melee in laning, shouldn't ever be optimal or common picks in top lane in my opinion. Lissandra is healthier in a role as a mid laner mage or a catcher support. Mid lane melee champions (assassins/skirmishers) tend to be mobile enough to have opportunities to interact against ranged champions or at least are in a better position to roam. For Vlad and Kennen, I am more split since they've been top laning for so many years, but they also cause a ton of frustration in top lane when they are dominant. Honestly, they're healthier for the game when they're played mid or even bot more than top. They have too easy a time safely farming and poking while disengaging from any melee retaliation in many matchups. When long range top laners are very optimal, a lot of melee frontliners drop to < 2% pick rate because they lose lane by default to ranged champions and then can't be as useful as their opponent after laning is over.