https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfwuqCkq9ao
period
you don't need an adc to siege, you have mages you don't need an adc to do damage, you have plenty of classes that can do this you don't need an adc to do anything, you can play an adc, BUT YOU SHOULDN'T play an adc
get out of your dogm already and play whatever you want bot lane as long as: -it can do as much damage to carry your team
ZephyrDrake19 votesso a single game with something doing well means that i shouldn't pick an ADC just so that i can hope that my pick is relevant enough as the game advances... sure ok dude
Spaceman5pff5 votesactually, the past weeks have shown consistently that ADC's are not mandatory.
SEKAI18 votesOur rigid meta culture really has to go.
LankPants8 votesADCs are still almost always the optimal way to play botlane. Whether or not other ways to play can work isn't super relevant, ADCs are still just the best botlaners with the exception of Ziggs, who will probably get shafted both directly and indirectly over the next few patches.
I wish this wasn't the case, I'd love to see more diversity in the game, but I'm not foolish enough to think that anything else will ever become more optimal and therefore overtake ADCs. I'm no great adherent to the meta at least in normal games, I've played many off meta champs as ADCs bot as well as other things like double bruiser bot, but the thing about these setups is that when they work they do so purely off the back of cheese. They're worse than a traditional setup but they can catch people off guard. If these comps ever started to rise in popularity they'd simply get slapped back down as people started to learn to play against them.
ZILLAGULA6 votesThere is still plenty of reasons to play an adc.
One of which being a backup plan if late game should happen. Which, even in diamond, it does.
Ahristocats6 votesand as i said you just have to play something that can do a lot of damage to carry your team, last time i cheked adcs aren't the only one doing this
ZILLAGULA6 votesName a few examples.
Ahristocats8 votes0:42 Darius killing full tank mundo in late game with 513 AD faster than 6 slotted vayne,
Penns2 votesVery fed Darius with both BC and probably a Mortal Reminder*
Ahristocats1 votescorrect, and E armor penetration as well as trinity force attack speed and sheen damage
this allows darius to do a lot of damage to tanks
Penns3 votesWell yeah but he is melee and Vayne probably doesnt need those items to get higher dps on tanks. I mean, if it works... I can play Fizz bot too and win https://i.gyazo.com/f37d3d099099d009154da1fa4da6c662.png but I dont think it would be that good in like d5+ lol.
Ahristocats2 votesdifference is that i didn't do one game but 15, and that i'm not playing in d5 but in d3-master
PermabannedGaren1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YzXG5UJV,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-18T10:19:56.395+0000)
0:42 Darius killing full tank mundo in late game with 513 AD faster than 6 slotted vayne,
To be fair, he did play that really badly. By the time he ulted he was already within dunking range HP-wise.
dominusx3 votes
ZILLAGULA8 votesWhich, literally all of these, needs to get up close to do that damage. Which means they're 10 times easier to focus. (Except for Jayce, but he's basically a 50% adc anyway)
dominusx4 votesyou said things that do dmg didnt you? you didnt say things that do dmg from afar
Malicious Metal2 votesGP can easily do his combo from quite a high range away and he bursts squishies really frigging hard. He's by far one of the better examples how Melee champions could potentially replaced ADC's
ZILLAGULA4 votesOkay, Gangplank and Jayce are good examples. I'll admit that. But saying that an ADC is not mandatory and that that ADC can be swapped out for a Fiora or a Nocturne is just simply stupid.
Malicious Metal2 votesNocturne is a better Jungler, yes, and Fiora loves 1v1's but a few Melee characters have the potential to be a suitable ADC replacement. Hell, we already have the option to put Marksmen into solo lanes, opening up that carry spot bot.
ZILLAGULA3 votesThey have the potential, and yes there's a few characters that can "replace" adc's, but they don't do a better job of being the adc.
PermabannedGaren1 votes[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YzXG5UJV,comment-id=000100000000000100000001,timestamp=2017-01-18T10:26:13.159+0000)
GP can easily do his combo from quite a high range away and he bursts squishies really frigging hard. He's by far one of the better examples how Melee champions could potentially replaced ADC's
Yeah but... he's not really a melee champion. He can work as an ADC though, you're right. Imaqtpie plays him every now and then.
Sahn Uzal6 votes ?
Also, plenty of mages to fit that lategame ranged damage source.
ZILLAGULA2 votesThey're AP
aka they're not an ADc
Lauchmelder7 votesIt got renamed to "Bot" for a reason.
Sahn Uzal3 votesExactly.
TeeTohr2 votesIt never got renamed, it's bot only to stay logic with the others that are top mid and jungle, this is a position not a role.
Lauchmelder3 votesThe position used to be called ADC, which is what our OP meant.
Dr Sona X Rubick was referring to the position of ADC, not the role ADC.
IcyPepper2 votesWell bot lane isn't the only place to play ADC, isn't it? If a top laner decides to play an ADC, like Quinn, shouldn't it be fair game to pick something else bot lane?
Critmaster Garen6 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YzXG5UJV,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-18T10:09:11.279+0000)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfwuqCkq9ao
period
you don't need an adc to siege, you have mages you don't need an adc to do damage, you have plenty of classes that can do this you don't need an adc to do anything, you can play an adc, BUT YOU SHOULDN'T play an adc
get out of your dogm already and play whatever you want bot lane as long as: -it can do as much damage to carry your team
ive come to the conclusion that this is nothing but a fad thatll only exist i solo que.
reason is, that its still inefficient to take a level dependent champion into a duo lane. even ziggs would be better off mid, to scale up faster in levels to scale up his w, and items and then just roam down bot lane for the usual gangbang and blow up that turret.
i mean think about it. everything bot lane ziggs does, mid lane ziggs does better.
heck, hed even make more sense in the support position since 90% of the reason people even take him bot is for the turret execute on his w. and that doesnt need gold, and only xp to scale up. his utility is actually decent enough to support aswell.
i doubt we will ever see anything else than adc in the duo lane in pro games for that reason.
Ahristocats2 votesi can't wait for my medicine school to end so i get back to competition again with a team allowing me to play adc darius
the reason for this is that because darius IS SO MUCH better in 5v5 premade because you can build up a team around him
maokai+orianna+ivern+darius+thresh that's the kind of team i want to have but it's rare to have an ivern in soloqueue after the nerfs
Critmaster Garen5 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YzXG5UJV,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-01-18T10:33:55.818+0000)
i can't wait for my medicine school to end so i get back to competition again with a team allowing me to play adc darius
the reason for this is that because darius IS SO MUCH better in 5v5 premade because you can build up a team around him
maokai+orianna+ivern+darius+thresh that's the kind of team i want to have but it's rare to have an ivern in soloqueue after the nerfs
id love if there was more diversity on bot lane and you could actually take melee carries and mages down there without getting shit on.
right now its somewhat possible, but its still not optimal. the problem remains, that darius is a champion who scales largely with experience. while you can take him down there with certain supports, he isnt able to scale and snowball nearly aswell as he would in a solo lane.
between a snowballing bot lane darius, and a snowballing top lane darius, the top lane darius will still have more impact by midgame due to the additional level advantage.
as long as riot doesnt increase the xp stream into the duo lane, which would at the same time open up champion diversity and make those early turet dives a bit harder and reduce snowballing, i cant shake the feeling that adc are still the more efficient option on bot lane.
Ahristocats4 votesyou don't compare top lane and bot lane darius you compare bot lane darius an other people that can go bot
Critmaster Garen4 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YzXG5UJV,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-18T10:52:08.543+0000)
you don't compare top lane and bot lane darius you compare bot lane darius an other people that can go bot
not sure about that. compare a solo lane adc to a duo lane adc and the difference is smaller than between a solo lane bruiser and a duo lane bruiser, like darius who has massive base stat scaling / lvl.
but hey, i f youre having fun, and it works for you then go ahead.
though id think melee adc like 
would still be better in place of someone like darius, since they share the same high item, low level scaling as marksmen.
at least if they can keep up with ranged lanes down there.
ive actually played bot lane fiora multiple times before even her rework. back then though i still ran into the issue of turret sieging being a pain by midgame. might look different today with mage sieging being better and zz rot + banner existing.
Fflarn2 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YzXG5UJV,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-01-18T10:39:30.440+0000)
id love if there was more diversity on bot lane and you could actually take melee carries and mages down there without getting shit on.
right now its somewhat possible, but its still not optimal. the problem remains, that darius is a champion who scales largely with experience. while you can take him down there with certain supports, he isnt able to scale and snowball nearly aswell as he would in a solo lane.
between a snowballing bot lane darius, and a snowballing top lane darius, the top lane darius will still have more impact by midgame due to the additional level advantage.
as long as riot doesnt increase the xp stream into the duo lane, which would at the same time open up champion diversity and make those early turet dives a bit harder and reduce snowballing, i cant shake the feeling that adc are still the more efficient option on bot lane.
But what you're listing as a weakness right now is actually a strength. Because bruisers, tanks, and mages gain a significant amount of power through levels compared to most marksmen, a one item level 6 Ziggs is much stronger than a one item level 6 Caitlyn. Sure, a solo lane Ziggs would be stronger than a duo lane Ziggs.... but you still have a solo lane mage on your team so you haven't given anything up to get that team advantage over the bot lane in the early game which allows you to snowball and end the game before Caitlyn ever ramps up to be a threat.
LankPants2 votesmaokai+orianna+ivern+darius+thresh
That team has an extreme weakness to poke disengage comps, which are super common in the meta right now. Against a team with a couple of disengages and a strong poke champ your win condition would evaporate rapidly into the mid game.
I'd love to see something like this work, but I feel like when Lee, Janna, Caitlyn, Poppy, Jayce and a few other similar champs being so common in the meta it would just end up countered by default in most games.
Just to put together an absolute worst case counter comp using only very common champs, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
. In order for your team to work against a comp like this you need to slug through 3 major disengages, 3 minor disengages, a 1.5-2 champion frontline and while you're doing that you're being torn apart by a hypercarry who just doesn't give a fuck about your tanky members. That's before mentioning that laning against any ranged knockbacks as a Darius just sounds like hell.
Ahristocats1 votesreplace thresh by morgana then, and i don't think you will be able to disengage easily
Spaceman5pff2 votesSyndra can easily pop the black shield with low cd basic abilities.
Just playing devils advocate, I am all for diverse botlanes.
Spaceman5pff2 votesWouldn't you want something along the lines of 
or 
in lane with Darius?
They can really help him get on enemies, and give him protection from exit trading against ranged enemies. Also, Lulu especially can give him the extra tankiness needed to build a LITTLE more damage.
Ahristocats2 votesHonestly i came to realise that those supports are better with darius simply because darius lacks of harassing and supports like braum can't harass properly(braum can only Q and can't if they are behind minions)
jinxedchef3 votesNot having an adc loses more times than it wins. And showing one video where a weird lane does well doesn't offset the other dozen where it did not. Period.
Ahristocats1 votesNot having an adc loses more times than it wins.
how do you know=?
because for me to know i played it 15 times and saw if it was true or not
jinxedchef4 votesIf it worked, it would just be more common. Now I can not remember having seen Darius bot lane per se, but I have seen plenty of others over the years. And have lost many more or those games than I have won.
Occasionally something odd (off meta) works but it usually because something is broken within the game. For example off meta people love to point the success that bot Ziggs is having. But Ziggs himself is overpowered right now and thus has the highest win rate mid. His W tower execute was a dumb idea combined with the huge first tower bonus.
As far as Darius bot goes. Darius himself is really strong right now. Because games are not often going into late game he can get away with being bot. It makes ADCs overall weaker, plus his CC makes jungler ganks work far more successfully. But these are all things that are going to be worked on in the near future.
So by the time someone learned a new/different champion or role like playing Darius bot, Riot usually corrects for the problem. So as the majority of players are learning how something off-meta works they are more likely to lose and then by the time they cross over to winning more than 50%, Riot fixes it. Unless it is something that stays under Riot's radar(few people are doing it).
5050BS2 votesOnly true if the game lasts 35+ minutes.
Win FB tower and get a Bot lane Mage fed (easy to do) and its ff@20
Zetto3 votesYeah. This worked, congratulations. So does the "All the eggs in one Yi shaped basket" comp. Just because it does work, doesn't mean that it's good, nor does it mean that it isn't an actual pile of cancer.
Just watch. A month or so in the future everyone is gonna figure out how to fuck the ziggs strat and then it's gonna get dropped faster then anyone can switch champs.
Until then, I hope ziggs gets nerfed into the floor. This asshat and all the mid laners that decide to take a vacation to bot and then fuck over my games can all go rot next to urgot.
HellsTrueKing1 votesThe funny thing is, the majority of top laners were saying the exact same stuff when ADCs were going top and ruining the mele-champs day; but know that people have discovered that mages work bot, ADCs can't yell & scream loud enough.
Best princess EU2 voteshow exactly darius is able to kill in one auto ahri? i never saw any darius doing this
Torgal2 votesIt's good for me, I'm tired to ADC in this game who are here since 7 seasons (and but that's another problem).
Kewlipo2 votesCorrection:
PSA: Unless you stomp bot lane with your out of meta pick, you're going to be utterly useless compared to their siege ability and late game power.
iamthegoatofwar1 votesNo someone needs to play a god damn AD carry...I am not going tolerate this bot ziggs bullshit when we have no AD and now the enemy team is going build MR items and we can do NOTHING to them. Break the meta? Fine, but don't do it in a way we suffer.
Torgal2 votesThe problem in this case is not Ziggs but the entire team.
