Honestly, giving void staff 40% magic pen just gives mages less build options....

xxxMadLionxxx·Oct 16, 2017·65 votes·7,041 views

Cause the first three items on almost every mage will be

Those 3 items will almost become mandatory

81 Comments

Azazel AerternumOct 16, 201712 votes

Will be mandatory?

They ARE mandatory already.

ShablagooOct 16, 201711 votes

Man no point in arguing you guys will never be happy, its really getting pathetic now honestly.

SqkergOct 17, 20175 votes

What's the point of saying this?

ShablagooOct 17, 20171 votes

Mages ask to buff things then get mad at the buff. Mages literally do anything to say they are weak wen they arent I know half of the ppl who say this aren't even on the pbe. Have they played Xerath, annie, ahri, any mage on the pbe? I doubt it cuz they can't say anything after playing them. Literally everything with the new runes is op as shit man. Have you played ekko with dark harvest? Have you tried using the new void staff? Anything ppl dont play the pbe then complain its so pathetic.

SqkergOct 18, 20171 votes

Except we're not complaining that mages are weak, or this thread isn't at least. We're saying that the already poor build diversity is going to be even more solidified with one of the few already good mage items getting buffed even more.

Magus PolarisOct 16, 20176 votes

Edit: Well the alternative is that Void and magic damage champions get effectively slightly nerfed.

xxxMadLionxxxOct 16, 201730 votes

They just need to add some mpen to another item or something

Magus PolarisOct 16, 20176 votes

Well, I was going to add that you are really overestimating how much the actual effect of this is. Let me clarify my thoughts.

What I understand is that since the runes are getting removed and people can't take the MR runes, Riot is giving all the champions a bit more Magic Resist. But this may kinda nerf magic damage champions a bit because not everyone takes those, it drives the numbers up either way. So to compensate they are adding a bit of penetration in. You can't add it to Haunting Guise, most don't build that. You could up the numbers on Sorc Shoes, but that unfairly affects damage dealers more than it does bruisers and tanks, who get more out of the increase as well. So for an easy scale up it makes sense to put it on Void Staff because everyone who is trying to get through MR buys it.

It's 40% magic pen and currently item 3135 is 35%, it's just a 5% increase. Let's put it into current terms. You buy Void Staff against targets that are getting a bunch of MR because the percent reduction is more effective for your damage. It's being increased by 5% so at 100MR, which is an amount that you are not going to get unless the player chooses to build defensively in that way, it lowers MR by an additional 5 points. So currently against a target that isn't building into Magic Resist, the buff is only going to reduce the MR by like 2.5 at most.

Getting rid of an extra 2 points of magic resist is not going to force anyone to buy Void Staff in a situation where they weren't going to buy it now.

sir d wreckOct 17, 20171 votes

Also if they just add more pen to Sorc shoes then it would stagnate every mage into buying those boots and nothing else. I like to buy the CD boots or swifties sometimes with a bunch of mages I play. Would hate to see this bring boot diversity down.

CosnirakOct 17, 20173 votes

None of that solves the problem that it means nearly every mage will need to buy Void. Yes 5% isn't huge vs squishies, but against tanks it is come mid and late game. Void is already really strong and often correct, making it even better vs tanks and oh hey a free 2-5 pen vs squishies will make that even more true.

The option outside of buffing Void (and solution to this problem) seems to be to adjust base mr and/or base mr per level more and possibly items that give mr. Am I missing something?

The Yetii RiderOct 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

They just need to add some mpen to another item or something

No. Magic penetration is not a mage stat. Mages build AP. Penetration is an assassin stat.

ZerdunOct 17, 20172 votes

unfortunately that's half true. AP assassins as well as mages literally share the same stat needs (AP, Mpen, CDR) hence why I say that riot needs to change stat desirability for AP assassins, AP bruisers, and mages then itemize accordingly. with the current setup there is too much item sharing and it negatively effects all three AP groups. (bad itemization always leads to problems with item misuse)

Blackstone01Oct 17, 20171 votes

They need to create entirely new flat MPen items. If AD assassins get an entire set of penetration items designed for them so should AP assassins. If mages abuse it make it melee oriented.

AhrisOct 16, 20176 votes

Riot doesnt want to buff mages. So they gave power to mages through magic pen % so it will not be too strong.

Riot hates it when diversity is lost but Riot is the one who ends diversity.

Bottom LanerOct 16, 20176 votes

Evelynn loves that item diversity. It's so...big.~

Darkdemon653Oct 16, 20175 votes

Complaining about a mage item getting buffed . . . maybe you people do deserve to have mages be shit.

SkelenthOct 16, 201729 votes

You do realize the complains about Mage items isn't that they're weak, but that they lack diversity?

AirKingNeoOct 16, 20173 votes

So that's why people keep asking for flat buffs across the board and not adjustments.

SqkergOct 17, 20178 votes

citation needed

Succubús GFOct 17, 20172 votes

Theres literally a hot topic on boards right now wanting mage buffs due to the removal of runes... But ok/

SqkergOct 17, 20176 votes

Compensation =/= flat buffs

AirKingNeoOct 17, 20171 votes

Literally any of my comments that say nerf morello and buff just about everything else.

+3 upvotes, -13 downvotes.

Gee, I wonder.

SqkergOct 17, 20172 votes

I'd like to see such comments... there is likely more to the story than that.

AirKingNeoOct 17, 20171 votes

This is all the evidence I need.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/KEZhW3xB-deathcap-needs-a-buff?comment=0003

6 upvotes, 35 downvotes

{quoted}

Nerf Morello and Lost Chapter then to compensate for any buffs to AP itemization.

I told you, I wasn't lying.

SqkergOct 18, 20171 votes

Well for the record I agree with your comment. Mages are not in such a spot that they need flat buffs, or flat buffs to their items. All they need, and all this post is highlighting, is their abysmal choices when it comes to WHAT items they can pick.

GrievousFetusOct 16, 20175 votes

"oh no mages have fewer options!"...because their items are getting continuously buffed and making suboptimal choices even more obviously unnecessary.

JorenciceOct 16, 20176 votes

{quoted}

"oh no mages have fewer options!"...because their items are getting continuously buffed and making suboptimal choices even more obviously unnecessary.

Buffed? Havent been able to hit 1400 AP on karthus in a long time.

Super glass cannon build barely reachs 800.

That's like a 30% damage loss.

DuskDaUmbreonOct 16, 20172 votes

I feel like any point in time where Karthus is allowed 1400 AP is a mistake. Nobody with a global, unmissable, auto-targeting nuke should have that much damage. That's just insane.

JorenciceOct 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I feel like any point in time where Karthus is allowed 1400 AP is a mistake. Nobody with a global, unmissable, auto-targeting nuke should have that much damage. That's just insane.

As i said super late game glass cannon build.

Im just sad i dont even have that option anymore.

ZerdunOct 17, 20171 votes

wasn't this Karthus build the one stacked archangels staff? FWIW I think for the player literally investing in nearly 20k gold in items it should hurt if somebody refuses to build a means of mitigating that shenanigans

Mafia LeBlancOct 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Buffed? Havent been able to hit 1400 AP on karthus in a long time.

Super glass cannon build barely reachs 800.

That's like a 30% damage loss.

1400 AP On Karthus:

Q Lay Waste = 120 + 420 / sec X 2 for one target = 1080 dmg per hit, .6 CD with max CDR

E Defile = 110 + 280 / sec = 390 AoE dmg / sec

R Requiem 550 + 840 = 1390 to each enemy

Not going to give any judgment either way, just simply put the data here and leave. Bye!

JorenciceOct 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mafia LeBlanc,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YtX5OAXm,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2017-10-16T22:40:16.115+0000)

1400 AP On Karthus:

Q Lay Waste = 120 + 420 / sec X 2 for one target = 1080 dmg per hit, .6 CD with max CDR

E Defile = 110 + 280 / sec = 390 AoE dmg / sec

R Requiem 550 + 840 = 1390 to each enemy

Not going to give any judgment either way, just simply put the data here and leave. Bye!

Ahh the good old days karthus could do his job properly.

MyozthirirnOct 17, 20173 votes

Old 1400 ap builds had 0 or 10% cdr, and close to 0 hp/armor/mr. It was fair, maybe not funny for the enemy player but fair.

Sire HippingtonOct 16, 20175 votes

well, not like void ever wasn't mandatory or wouldn't be with 30% aswell...%pen simply is the most powerfull multiplyer there is for mages.

Linna ExcelOct 16, 20174 votes

Void staff aught to be mandatory on mages anyways.

Anyways, it is getting buffed because no more mpen runes.

One35Oct 16, 20173 votes

The problem here is that other than basic stuff like boots and potions, no item, especially no finished item, should be mandatory for an entire class. It kills the point of itemization, which is to customize characters and introduce diversity.

GaliöOct 16, 20173 votes

Seems like a shitty build to me. Ok Cdr, ok pen against tanks, decent AP. No utility or special effects rather than the worst grevious wound effect in the game. And it costs a lot.

ShablagooOct 16, 20171 votes

But all grievous wound items give the same amount of heal reduction??

Mecha IncognitoOct 16, 20172 votes

He means it's the hardest to apply because they have to be under 30% health.

GodalorOct 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Seems like a shitty build to me. Ok Cdr, ok pen against tanks, decent AP. No utility or special effects rather than the worst grevious wound effect in the game. And it costs a lot.

I don't think you realize that Void Staff gives comparable damage to Rabadons in most situations and that Morello and Void Staff are both amazingly cheap and cost efficient compared to other AP items. Although that is mostly due to all other AP items being pretty bad

GaliöOct 17, 20171 votes

Well comparing to rabadons is harsh... lol thats a shitty itwm unless your veigar pretty much

Shuyin178Oct 16, 20172 votes

If someone didn't buy VS before they won't buy it now. The MP boost is just to offset the lack of magic pen you'd put into your runes and masteries that you will no longer have.

It's the same reason Lethality items are getting buffed.

WeedlayerOct 17, 20171 votes

If someone didn't buy VS before on a mage they were bad, it's a mandatory item. Usually third, but situationally second if enemies rush MR.

ModAcademy KaynOct 17, 20172 votes

Don't most ADC's build IE, LW, and Berserker Greaves? What's the difference.

WeedlayerOct 17, 20171 votes

At least ADCs have some interesting options in choosing a zeal item, and there are other items like BotRK on Lucian and Death's Dance draven and of course rageblade Varus + Kog. Lots of options honestly. I'd like to see lethality ADC builds get to a point where they're balanced as a stronger early, weaker late build, which might be possible if this hyperscaling ADC + ardent meta ends.

Meep ManOct 17, 20172 votes

More like Void Staff now eclipses Rabadon's Deathcap in every single situation since before it was only not worth buying when the target hadn't built hardly any MR.

Squidward DabOct 17, 20173 votes

Eh even right now I feel void staff is better before deathcap since one mr item and my ap damage is totally mitagated unless I’m fed beyond catching up