Let's say this together, 3...2...1...

Marshbouy··14 votes·753 views

The jungler is not there to win lane for you again the jungler is not there to win lane for you again THE JUNGLER IS NOT THERE TO WIN LANE FOR YOU

If the jungler picks a low pressure jungler such as mordekaiser, pre 6 warwick, pre six malphite, and any number of other low pressure junglers, DO NOT EXPECT ANY GANKS FROM THEM UNTIL LATER, IF AT ALL. This should be a rule of thumb for the game all the time. Expecting anything from your team to help you get through lane is a nono. Getting help from your team should be a bonus, not a necessity in most cases. ESPECIALLY from a low pressure jungler. EDIT: fine. I'll give you some nuance. If they are pushed, low health, or wardless then you better gank them.

39 Comments

OneMustFall7 votes

If you're not ganking at all as a jungler, you're just not doing your job. As a jungler, I always try to get my team in the best possible position to win the game. The jungler needs to be opportunistic and find ways to get themselves or their team fed. That doesn't mean babysitting a losing lane as most of the time not beneficial but if you're not ganking at all, you're a detriment to your team and not taking advantage of the fact you are in an area with the least vision. If you need level 6 for powerful ganks, so be it but you need to make sure you capitalize on those ganks since you are ganking less than the enemy jungler.

Marshbouy2 votes

If you are not ganking as a jungler, then you aren't doing your job.

if you are laning, you should not expect a gank. That is how it should be.

Axe2Handle5 votes

I dont care if your not helping my lane, as long as your helping A lane.

Marshbouy1 votes

what am i going to do when im pre 6 or my ult is on CD when im malphite? walk in, Q, and leave?

Ralanr4 votes

Yes actually. Your Q is a slow.

Marshbouy1 votes

yeah, that 20% slow sure is gonna do a lot to help my katarina kill them....

Ralanr5 votes

I mean, it isn't always about getting a kill man.

Hige1 votes

this^

Ganking is about pressure, sure kat will shunpo out in a gank, but if you have no presence in lane she will simply go forward without caring for her cooldowns or positioning because she won't be punished for overextending, the enemies in lanes need to know that you are watching and that if they waste their cooldown they might be setting themselves up for a gank, but if you simply don't appear at all until level 6, enemies have free reign.

Slythion3 votes

walk in behind them, Q to slow the laner and allow your teammate to engage. E + Q for extra damage.

You could blow their flash (effectively reducing both kill pressure and giving your laner kill pressure) or simply just damage them enough to win lane for your teammate by allowing them to zone or forcing the enemy to back.

I still don't understand how players don't understand that ganks aren't about kills, it's about obtaining an advantage. Even if you drive them back to tower, at least you zoned him out of a little bit of experience and gold before you backed after clearing jungle or something. You can always gank pre-6 with anyone, it's not always about the kill.

Hell, just showing up and making them back off gives your laner the time needed to grab some cs/regen some hp if their booty is getting whooped

Marshbouy1 votes

Who honestly flashes from a malphite Q. who?

Stray Kat1 votes

{quoted}

Who honestly flashes from a malphite Q. who?

A half HP Diana watching her opposing Yasuo charge down a line of minions as Malph walks out of the brush. Don't even need to fire that Q, I'm trying to flash my ass toward tower before you even have the chance.

Marshbouy1 votes

so basically in a chance example that happens very occasionally, then yes. I would flash too. but that's assuming -they are low health -pushed -your laner responds to your engage which is a lot to assume.

Stray Kat1 votes

{quoted}

so basically in a chance example that happens very occasionally, then yes. I would flash too. but that's assuming -they are low health -pushed -your laner responds to your engage which is a lot to assume.

Oh I totally agree, but I DO burn people's flashes as Diana quite often by ganking pre-6 when there's no possible way I'm going to get to them. Just the pressure of having the jungler step into your lane can be enough for you to do something silly sometimes.

Slythion1 votes

no one flashes from a Malphite Q. They flash from the threat of a follow-up

I hate my ADC1 votes

Wait, you mean that junglers shouldn't be tower diving at level 3 an already winning lane, dying without taking a kill in the process?

Axe2Handle3 votes

Walk in Q, close the distance, use other abilities other than Q...

maybe use the lowest CD ability in your kit, Auto Attack, preferably with a red buff ;)

Marshbouy1 votes

good luck finding someone who will let you get melee on them

Slythion2 votes

if only you had a slow...a self speed-up...the ability to start a fight behind them...a 2v1 opportunity. Oh wait...you have all of those

Marshbouy1 votes

unless you are literally facing a potato with no wards, they will begin to back off to their turret before you enter lane.

OneMustFall1 votes

{quoted}

unless you are literally facing a potato with no wards, they will begin to back off to their turret before you enter lane.

That is literally every laner against every single jungler ever. If they are warded and are paying attention, they will back off. The idea is that they won't always be warded and won't always be paying attention. Not even in Diamond/Masters is shit always warded. And in low elo, almost no one wards.

Marshbouy1 votes

huh, funny, most of the times i gank i find a ward and then they play safe for the next minute. It's almost like you are making shit up. BTW in high elo if it isn't warded they aren't gonna shove lane.

Slythion1 votes

yes, well, your silver ass isn't exactly high elo is it? Hell, pretty much no one here is high elo. There's a reason why junglers like Gragas/Reksai/Zac are top tier up there, because they can gank from unusual areas that aren't warded and have cc/mobility spells on low cd.

So the premise still stands: they usually wont be warded

and if it is, chances are you'll be in lane by the time they see you. Decent communication with your laner will ensure they will be pushed up as well.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

here is the thing...

  1. ganks arent always about killing... its some time just to relieve pressure so the lane can reset and the laner has a chance to farm safely.

  2. a gank with out a kill that forces cooldowns and a base by the enemy laner alone is worth the gold and experience your laner can gain from that pressure.

  3. team comps/counter picks... i get it if your 1st pick you cant see what the other jungler picks. but maybe if 1st pick choose a jungler that has a well rounded game/kit if you see a lee sin picked and you pick a farm jungler like shyvana then you are putting yourself and team at a disadvantage because of the early game pressure he provides vs your champ. that alone can win/loss games

  4. i feel jungler and support goes hand and hand, yes you can carry as a jungler and even play "carry junglers" however just like a support your job as jungler is to help your team and support them to get them an advantage because just like support a jungler typically has a small gold income compared to TOP, MID ,ADC and lacks experience and levels .

hence why some junglers are feast or famine being if they dont get early kills and an lvl advantage and snowball they become a liability. examples Evelynn Khazix Kindred KogMaw MasterYi Nidalee Pantheon Rengar Shaco and where as other junglers due to their kits can still be useful with out snowballing like Amumu Elise JarvanIV Malphite Sejuani Zac Maokai

there is a trade off depending on what junglers you chose with what team comp and vs what matchups/team comps

  1. as a jungler you can have the biggest impact on a game because you are the one who is roaming and primarily responsible for neutral objective controls. if you fail at ganks and give kills you hurt yourself and your laners by putting them behind. if you lose to the other jungler by pressure and awareness it puts the entire team at disadvantage. if you can beat their jungler you make your team feel more powerful by the other team having to play "on their heels" "reactionary " instead of "proactively "

  2. your pick for your champ as jungler can make or break the entire team comp... i get it every one wants to play their champs and pick who they want but just as a support pick can make up for a teams weakness a jungler pick can do the same. if you dont have engage or a tank pick it. if you have alot of high damage champs pick something that can enable them to be able to do that. if you team comp lacks damage pick a carry jungler. if you lack ad pick ad jungler. if you lack ap you get the picture.

Demon King Maou4 votes

I honestly don't mind helping my lanes pre six HOWEVER I do hate when my lanes spam HELP ME HELP ME HELP ME and I'm level 2 Seriously.. I do need time to setup -_- atleast let me buy boots before I start my ganks

Marshbouy1 votes

lol accurate.

Warpes3 votes

{quoted}

what am i going to do when im pre 6 or my ult is on CD when im malphite? walk in, Q, and leave?

malphite is a lot more than an ult...

he's what he builds and can bring utility, peel, and bulk to a fight. as well as plenty of dmg from his w-autos and E... (which you should be maxing), iceborns, etc. let's not forget diving power with higher than normal armor, which is more than all carry junglers can say.

malphite is also not a meta jungler. and warwick is getting a rework soon...

all of your points, and thread, are bad and invalid. and this coming from a jungle main.

{quoted}

good luck finding someone who will let you get melee on them

That's what your Q is for.........................

Kaioko2 votes

If you're not ganking at all early you better have some amazing late game and great objective control as well as denying the other jungler. Malphite was really the remotely only viable one on the list. Maybe Warwick in certain occasions is ok, he's a good jungler for those who don't know how.

Lyipheoryia1 votes

Complete and utterly agree. As a Kindred main-it's really hard for me to gank or push lane until mid-game. It's very annoying to explain to them how Kindred is squishy early-game, and that I will definitely die if I try to gank your garen and sona in a 1v2.

Warpes2 votes

{quoted}

Complete and utterly agree. As a Kindred main-it's really hard for me to gank or push lane until mid-game. It's very annoying to explain to them how Kindred is squishy early-game, and that I will definitely die if I try to gank your garen and sona in a 1v2.

the sad part is this guy isn't trolling, or being sarcastic... he's actually being serious... http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Lyipheoryia

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

OneMustFall2 votes

{quoted}

the sad part is this guy isn't trolling, or being sarcastic... he's actually being serious... http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Lyipheoryia

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

To be honest, I wouldn't even want this guy ganking for me. He's definitely gonna feed my lane.

Axe2Handle2 votes

Yes,if this guy was my jungler please do not gank my lane EVER. Looks like he's trying to stop world hunger with those stats lol

Lyipheoryia1 votes

That wasn't even the worst part...

When you go in to gank, but the ADC just stands there-and the support runs in the complete opposite direction~

And the support forgets to ward...

And then the ADC blames me for feeding.

Wow such great teamwork.

Marshbouy1 votes

same. this happens to me all the time when im playing mord, diana, warwick, etc

Hige1 votes

ok, as an ADC main, don't expect me to do damage, if you can quit your job as a jungler I can surely quit my job as an ADC, I won't cs because it's a nuisance, I'll simply walk all over the map doing nothing, as a matter of fact I think I'll simply follow you around and take your jungle because that's less risky than being in lane, hopefully mid lane will join us too and we can all be safe inside the base and do absolutely nothing all game long, just the way Riot intended league to be played.

Marshbouy1 votes

That is literally one of the biggest false equivalences i have ever seen.

Hige1 votes

first thing, you don't know how to use the word: "literally"

second, ganking is the jungler's job amongst several others, you see, in game each role has a purpose, you don't go jungle because the monsters are pretty and you like smacking them, the whole "jungler" thing was something that became a thing back in season one when the norm was to have 2 players in top and bottom and 1 player in mid, eventually people realized that killing the monsters on the jungle gave close experience to the one you won in lanes and there were a few champions able to withstand the monsters punishment from level one (Udyr Warwick) so the role started to become the norm because it optimized the resources on the map.

there was but a small detail that people weren't happy about and it was the small difference in experience that a Jungler had with a "laner", even in bot lane where 2 people lingered all the time, the jungler was staying behind in experience, the solution for this became what we know today as ganking and taxing, the experience the jungler was missing on the jungle he got it from either killing the enemy or obtaining few bits of experience from minions, either last hitting them or simply staying around until jungle monsters respawned.

Ganking changed lane dynamics since staying behind the imaginary line that divides summoner's rift in half was more important now than ever, considering also that there were some champs that were starting to be used as junglers who were able to gank at lvl 1 (Shaco XinZhao)

Enter supports who were tasked with the vision game since wards were pretty cheap back then and they had the most free time out of every role. Supports playing up the vision game made Junglers understand that there were some finesse to ganking so they relied on their teammates to ward around in order to track the enemy jungler so that they could either counter gank or punish the enemy jungler by showing up on another lane or what is known today as lane pressure.

Enter Poppy Evelynn who were specialized counter junglers who didn't have much of lane pressure but who's pressure was aimed at the enemy jungle itself, counter jungling became a thing then. So we have a bunch of terms being thrown around and a bunch of different junglers and changes to the monster camps and whatnot but the most important thing is that the role of a Jungler started to be outlined barely during season 3.

People (and riot) understood that the Junglers were a thing and they were here to stay, so work was poured onto the role itself and the bunch of changes that we know of started to come through the door until a definition for the role was able to be coined.

The reality of the jungler is that it exists because it's the best way of optimizing the resources of the map BUT ALSO AND MORE IMPORTANTLY each team has a jungler because each team has a jungler... exactly that, you play in the jungle because the enemy team has someone playing in the jungle and your grade of effectiveness is mostly dictated not by what YOU do but by what the enemy jungler does and how you react.

the most important job a Jungler has is to stop the enemy jungler from outscaling him, simple as that, if the enemy jungler ganked and took a kill then he's above in experience and gold, what will you do? farm jungle and hope he miraculously stops scaling? you HAVE to catch up and farming jungle alone won't do the job. You have many options like making another enemy loose resources somehow, not necessarily killing them but making it so they are more wary of making plays.

One last thing, a jungler has to have presence, if the enemy team figures out that you're "that" kind of jungler who stays in the jungle until level 6, they KNOW, they have at least until level 8 to kill the enemy laner and they will get that kill because they can fully commit without a care in the world for you to show up, they could have a more cooperative jungler and turn the lane into a 2v1 and where will you be?

redfeenix1 votes

Is this another post about your Jungle Malphite game?

Malphite actually has decent ganks pre-6. Provides CC so your laner can kill them while their slowed.

Way better than ww's pre6 ganks ...

Marshbouy1 votes

yeah that 20% slow sure is a lot of CC. edit: this was my original post where i was told that CSing to keep a lead in gold and xp is a waste of time as a jungler and that ganking pre 6 on malphite is possible in any lane (when it's not. try ganking bot lane pre 6 and have fun giving up first blood).

I was also told to use smite to assist in a gank pre 6. legit. what the fuck.

AsphodelNext1 votes

Fine, but when the enemy jungler is there to win lane for them, I expect you to have a really good mid/late game to make up for it. Don't just play "low pressure" junglers, farm for 20 minutes, and go "Oh, you fed the enemy jungler and that's why they're ahead" when you can't beat them.

As a side note, if you're looking to play a low pressure jungler who farms a lot instead of ganking, champions who don't scale as well with farm i.e. Malphite are probably the worst choice you can make. Like, if you can do exactly the same job, but with less CS, then I'd much prefer you to skip farming and gank for me, since it won't affect your late game. Shyvana, Master Yi, heck even Nasus, just pick someone who can actually fully use the farm that you're giving up gank pressure for.

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