Kleptomancy +25 Range removed nerf - warranted for ranged users, not melee?

ValyrianBlade·Dec 6, 2017·63 votes·6,497 views

Phase rush was buffed for ranged users because it was much stronger on melee.

Yet Kleptomancy gets nerfed on all users because it's too strong on a few ranged users.

Further, it was disproportionately nerfed for melee users over ranged users. Take someone with 175 attack range, that 25 range is a 1/7 or 14.3% increase to their range. That's pretty massive, and can make a noticeable difference to their ability to land an auto attack after an ability.

Now look at someone with 550 attack range, that 25 range is almost nothing to them.

Can we change this klepto-nerf so that only melee get the 25 range increase?

29 Comments

QuephaDec 6, 201730 votes

It's also weird because the only two really visible Kleptomancy users, Ezreal and Gangplank, primarily proc it with an ability that isn't affected by the range increase at all. I'd really like to hear context on this change.

AP Amumu MainDec 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's also weird because the only two really visible Kleptomancy users, Ezreal and Gangplank, primarily proc it with an ability that isn't affected by the range increase at all. I'd really like to hear context on this change.

Sona.

One35Dec 7, 20175 votes

Sona is no longer viable as of 7.24 lol

Spank the FoxDec 7, 201711 votes

Shit people say after every Sona/Janna nerf.

It’s been 4 years, I’m still waiting for this to be true.

FairyfleurDec 7, 20172 votes

There have been many times where Sona has been bad, right? Mage supports made her laning impossible, and when tank supports are overbearing she just gets blown up.

Sexy Jack RabbitDec 7, 20172 votes

Whilst not untrue, she's always been a late-game goddess.

Her laning phase has been hard at times but that just resulted in her playing more passively early game and not attempting to bully so much, and then just scaling late game.

TEA Nietzsche Dec 7, 20171 votes

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/de/champions/stats/sona/platinum

Winrate hasn't dropped below 51% in the past 4 years while having a solid 5%+ pickrate.

yay nibbersDec 7, 20172 votes

Naw dude, 50% WR means she's shit obviously. That's how it works in bot-lane, right? Anything lower than 52% is shit.

What a fun places the Boards is.

Z3SleeperDec 7, 20172 votes

RIP my Klepto Illaoi and Urgot

junglerboy16Dec 7, 20173 votes

Honestly this, Klepto Illaoi has been a blast, but not for long I suppose...

Z3SleeperDec 7, 20171 votes

Well, just tried it. Feels the same honestly. I can't tell the difference.

Does suck knowing that Illaoi's Klepto W range is 25 shorter but in practice I honestly can't tell.

HeimerLmaoDec 7, 20171 votes

Klepto Donger still is fun.

Smitty ManjensenDec 6, 20174 votes

It's absolutely busted on GP and totally unfun to play against him, but of course people won't admit just because he's melee.

QuephaDec 6, 20175 votes

Removing the range bonus also does literally nothing to him because he procs it with an ability.

Spank the FoxDec 7, 20171 votes

And it does nothing for the other melee users - Fiora (Q) and Illaoi (procing it on the spirit she created from E)

So like, who are we complaining for? Most melee prefer combat keystones.

MizayaDec 6, 20173 votes

What melee without an ability that applies on-hit uses it anyways? I can't think of any really

QuephaDec 6, 20172 votes

I liked using it on Jax and Fiora (it doesn't affect her Q, but it helps with her E).

It's not really popular on any of these champions, but why nerf such a small group of players?

ValyrianBladeDec 6, 20174 votes

{quoted}

What melee without an ability that applies on-hit uses it anyways? I can't think of any really

It's not to say that it's optimal on any of them - so why nerf it when some people may be trying to make use of it?

Kleptomancy was actually the highest win percent rune on top lane Ornn... I've been trying it out and it makes a lot of sense. You can reliably proc it every time you trade with your W and I'd imagine the extra auto range is necessary to get the auto off after you slow yourself with W in the trade. It also therefore greatly increases your trade damage since you get the passive application on your auto that you may otherwise not have reached for. I like klepto on Ornn because it gives him more gold and health/mana to abuse his passive of building items in lane (he also loves biscuit delivery and celestial body from that tree. The highest win-percent rune page has him taking future's market as well, however I personally only just started with him so I can't take advantage of building something just a little early for it to seem worthwhile for me so I take the faster boots instead).

I've also seen Illaoi run Klepto to decent effect. I'd imagine there are other melee champions that would like to try klepto, and since the extra range benefits melee users more and these users definitely aren't abusing klepto, it seems like a backwards change to the keystone. Especially when they're now looking to buff grasp - just making us all take the same thing instead of letting us be creative.

GesterrDec 7, 20171 votes

fk Shyvana top could use it for the extended range as her Q counts as an ability and auto like a melee Ezreal and she really suffers toplane due to no sustain but she can grab biscuits from inspiration, I guess not anymore though with the Klepto nerf

NemeBroDec 7, 20173 votes

Klepto should be nerfed on everyone, if not removed.

And the extra 25 range is if anything more oppressive for other melees to play against. Ranged do not care.

Fondling GemsDec 7, 20173 votes

I honestly don't understand it. The two biggest users of this keystone are Ezreal and GP last time I checked. Both of them are using their Q to abuse it, which the +25 range doesn't help at all because they are abilities. That meant that they mostly nerfed it for everyone else, but not as much for the biggest users of the keystone.

Seems like a bit of a strange decision to me, although I understand wanting to remove some of the extra things to ability does to help define it as being focused on getting items, instead of also allowing for sneaky trades with more range.

BoulderoxDec 7, 20172 votes

Illaoi Fiora are a few melee users I know of and the 25 bonus range has no reason to be added on any champions imo. All people that can cheese the ability don't need the range

LeonerdoDec 7, 20172 votes

It's because that 25 range was never supposed to be an important part of the Keystone. It wasn't mentioned in any tooltips or previews or descriptions, and yet it constituted a large portion of the rune's power for some champions (like Nasus and Illaoi). Extending AA range is a separate effect that should be on it's own rune (if any), and Kleptomancy should be focused on it's item/gold generation. So in other words, I'm 90% sure that removal was not about balance at all, but about the identity and clarity of the rune.

SkorchDec 7, 20172 votes

I think the 25% range increase was for MORE than ADCs however, since you could also trade in Melee vs Melee lanes, the issue was still there.

As for "Further, it was disproportionately nerfed for melee users over ranged users. Take someone with 175 attack range, that 25 range is a 1/7 or 14.3% increase to their range. That's pretty massive, and can make a noticeable difference to their ability to land an auto attack after an ability.

Now look at someone with 550 attack range, that 25 range is almost nothing to them."

The issue isnt the percentage of range that it increases, 25 range is 25 range. If you KNOW a melees range, and you KNOW a ranged auto range this can... again result in taking autos you previously wouldntve do to not knowing their range. There are a few exceptions to auto range but they are all very telegraphed.

Relic shield: Only works on minions. RFC visible queue as well as temporary, If someone has RFC youll expect it. Twitch ult: I know people hate twitch etc but im talking about JUST the range increase... its very plain to know when hes ulting (doesnt mean you know WHAT to do when he does but you know its happening).

You can proc Klepto so often that the 25 range led to really weird trades.

Shatter the SunDec 6, 20171 votes

I agree

QuephaDec 6, 20171 votes

there was a response on this: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/KtbGvapw-patch-chat-with-the-playtest-team-724?comment=00020001

DaeneriesDec 7, 20171 votes

Gangplank

PhantomPranksterDec 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Phase rush was buffed for ranged users because it was much stronger on melee.

Yet Kleptomancy gets nerfed on all users because it's too strong on a few ranged users.

Further, it was disproportionately nerfed for melee users over ranged users. Take someone with 175 attack range, that 25 range is a 1/7 or 14.3% increase to their range. That's pretty massive, and can make a noticeable difference to their ability to land an auto attack after an ability.

Now look at someone with 550 attack range, that 25 range is almost nothing to them.

Can we change this klepto-nerf so that only melee get the 25 range increase?

wait klepto got nerfed along with my ezreal?

wtf