How people feel about being counter-picked

The Ecdysiast··3 votes·933 views

I just want to know what the community thinks about that in Ranked.

Yeah, counter-picking is a big part of the game and often decides the outcome. But why should it?

Along with that, I ask the question of how people feel about needing to ban the same champions every game simply because if one team gets them, you can't pick them as well.

Sure, Darius, Garen, and Fiora are problems. But if your players are genuinely better than theirs, why should it be an automatic loss if they get that champion just because yours didn't?

It'd help so much ban-wise, if players didn't always have to ban the same champions and could instead count on their allies being better with said champion than the enemy.

It's not a test of skill to beat a counter, it's a test of skill if you can beat the enemy playing your champion, as that champion.

And before ANYONE says anything about that making the game "boring": Need I remind you Ranked is **not for fun. ** It's for rewards and serious players. Often times, it's only possible to rank up if you master an extremely safe, easy champion. So you aren't going to be having fun outside of the euphoria of winning regardless. What's boring is seeing the same champions have a high winrate just because they're stronger than others and harder to play against even with counters. Yes, those champions will have even higher pick rates if mirrored, but they'd have even win rates since those champions also Lost that same match, on the other team.

My suggestion: Allow players, at the end of champion select, to switch to the enemy's champion to undo the counter-pick. Not to counter pick theirs, but to be the same champion. If they're really better than you, they'll win. If they were only going to win because they counter you despite the fact you're better, they'll rightfully lose. Of course, this is only possible with the NEW champion select, or a similar style of having the roles in place beforehand.

Bans also need to be placed throughout picking, instead of the beginning. Then you could actually ban picks that hard-counter you and your allies instead of just banning who's OP that month. If both teams can pick Darius, then not only does he not need to be banned, you can also use that ban on someone who he'd have trouble playing against.

14 Comments

CEO of Aspergers3 votes

[deleted]

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Yeah! Exactly!

It always makes me sad that the bans are always the same six champions (or the captain gets yelled at) for a given period of time.

If champs could be mirrored, then teams have the chance that their Darius will be better than the enemy, and so he doesn't need to be banned. They'd also need to change when bans occur, having it dispersed throughout picking.

Ionian2 votes

"Hahaha. Nice 5 Syndra games in ranked. Hope you're good enough to "counter" the 750k points one trick Ahri though."

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Player experience with a champion isn't being considered here, since if the champions are close in power, mobility, and every other strength but DON'T counter one another, then it's the same as a mirror.

I don't really get your example though, considering Ahri has mobility to dodge Syndra's single CC move, plus CC of her own to hit the completely-immobile Syndra.

Annie, I'd say is a better counter for Ahri. Since her CC is targeted, long range, and doesn't have weird coding that makes it often not work, like Syndra. But then that's exactly the problem I mean where the champion is simple and counters the opponent.

Ionian1 votes

Syndra is a big counter to Ahri pre-6 as she outpokes, outpushes, outtrades and bursts harder. Her W and E are super easy to hit compared to Ahri's Q, and thus Syndra has not only more damage, but also more reliable damage and cc. And of course the ult, targeted so no dashes can outplay that. It's a classic counter to Ahri, and remains a threat throughout the entire game.

NoPaxt2 votes

I LOVE being counter picked. You don't get better by playing favorable match-ups all the time.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

You don't get better losing them, either. Or by winning the favorable matchups every game.

Please read the whole post instead of just downvoting based on my opinion. I asked for your input. Downvoting that means you don't even want your own opinion seen.

alasarcher3 votes

{quoted}

You don't get better losing them, either. Or by winning the favorable matchups every game.

Please read the whole post instead of just downvoting based on my opinion. I asked for your input. Downvoting that means you don't even want your own opinion seen.

You do get better losing them. You learn from mistakes you made, and discover new tactics you could have used.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Not when the only deciding factor was the champion. You don't learn anything at all except that when you get fucked by the champion selection, you need to rely on your teammates.

You can't just "learn" how to counter-play when there's no window to do so against the counter-pick.

NoPaxt3 votes

You do get better in losses, if you didn't there would be no point in playing a game. You get experience, and as long as you don't quit and act stupid waiting for the ff to roll around, you may even learn how to comeback.

I read the whole post, I just disagreed with it. If you don't want to play with bans, don't play draft. If you want to have the same champ available to both teams, don't play draft. If you don't like draft, don't play draft.

If you want to play draft accept what draft means. You take turns picking. Not every NBA team can have Steph Curry on their roster, because only one team can draft him. You also wouldn't allow Steph Curry in your pick up game unless you know you were getting him on your team, so you don't invite him.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Your argument for my suggested changes in ranked thus far:

Don't play ranked

Your suggestion for changing draft is somehow invalid because draft is how it is and they totally never change anything for the better in this game.

Right.

Please don't just comment with opinion without having anything at all to back it up. You're trying to say that if I want to suggest changes, I need to just accept how things are and **not suggest changes. **

You can abuse their unbalanced system all you want, that's your choice. But don't try to act like how it is is correct just because they haven't changed it yet. Your example even falls short with the fact that the NBA does NOT ban players for being good, or allow teams to prohibit each other from having equally skilled players.

warpenguin5551 votes

it can be the best form of counterplay.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Counter-picking is not a form of counter-play. Counter-play is something you can do in game to beat the opponent, even with disadvantages. That includes movement, timing, and itemization, and is often necessary when counter-picked against.

Counter-picking is something you can do if you know that your ability to counter-play the opponent is not enough to beat them alone, and you need an advantage over them other than skill.

Bharhash1 votes

Garen is not a problem.

I refuse to pick him if I'm first pick, or even second pick. He is extremely vulnerable to counter-picking. I have no problem taking him into fights against the best champs for top lane out there, even Darius or Fiora.

But if the enemy picks a champion like Gnar or Jayce after me... Garen would be better served scooping his tears off the ground and putting them into a water bottle for the enemy tea.

More from Gameplay

More by The Ecdysiast